Home › Forums › Open Discussion › Prop 1/Metro Spending
- This topic is empty.
-
AuthorPosts
-
April 16, 2014 at 4:39 pm #611052
ricoMemberI am hoping that those of you more informed than me can discuss the points made in this article about metro spending. The article appears to make some interesting points, but I am sure there is another position to be presented.
http://crosscut.com/2014/04/16/transportation/119631/prop-one-metro-tax-increase-john-carleson/
April 16, 2014 at 6:23 pm #807003
clark5080ParticipantSome good point’s indeed. Metro needs a house cleaning and Dow needs to roll up his sleeves and really reform that agency
April 16, 2014 at 9:54 pm #807004
on boardParticipantThey are going to kill off all the best of West Seattle transit regardless of how we vote, so you may as well vote no. Not that we don’t need transit, but this is a vote of no confidence inthe way things currently work.
April 16, 2014 at 11:33 pm #807005April 17, 2014 at 4:01 pm #807006
JoBParticipanton board
no confidence means limited public transportation and more time spent in traffic.
it’s your choice.. but the nose you cut off will be your own.
fund them and demand more..
April 17, 2014 at 5:13 pm #807007
metrognomeParticipantrico — there has already been a fairly lengthy discussion on Prop 1 in two other threads:
https://westseattleblog.com/forum/topic/sixty-dollar-car-tab-fees
https://westseattleblog.com/forum/topic/proposition-1
The first thread contains numerous links to data sources regarding Metro’s costs and the specific efforts the county and transit employees have made to reduce or control those costs, contrary to Carlson’s rather general and mostly unsubstantiated allegations. It also points out where some costs are out of the county’s control. For example, pension benefit levels are set by the state legislature.
The second thread includes a link to the enabling ordinance which discusses how excess funds will be distributed and that the tab fees and sales tax increase may be rescinded if the legislature ever passes a transportation funding package.
As far as Carlson’s comments, he is approaching this from a ‘freeways are better’ and ‘less government’ points of view although he never specifically says that. What he does do is refer to the Eastside Transportation Alliance which primarily composed of conservative business interests and the WA Policy Center, a conservative think tank.
ETA is or has been affiliated with Kemper Freeman, the Bellevue developer who has made his anti-public transportation stance clear. Freeman sued Sound Transit all the way to the state Supreme Court (and lost) in an effort to prevent light rail from being installed on the I-90 floating bridge.
One of the issues with evaluating ‘sub-area equity,’ the term for determining how to allocate taxes based on where they are collected, is the difficulty with determining which routes are assigned to which area as many routes serve multiple jurisdictions (as I recall, Metro operates in about 40 jurisdictions.) It would be interesting to see the ETA analysis Carlson refers to but doesn’t provide a link to.
It’s pretty easy to use a search engine to find add’l info on ETA, the WA Policy Center, Freeman. etc.
April 17, 2014 at 5:30 pm #807008
Alki WarriorParticipantJob.. Correcto! I’ll keep voting yes to fund them. I own a car and don’t mind paying sixty dollar car tabs and in fact, I’d pay one hundred dollars. The less people on the road the better for me. You got to pay to play. Go West Seattle!!
April 17, 2014 at 5:54 pm #807009
metrognomeParticipantI just ran across a rebuttal that doesn’t mention Carlson’s article, but addresses some of the issues he raises.
http://seattletransitblog.com/2014/04/14/yes-metros-deficit-is-real/
April 17, 2014 at 6:52 pm #807010
wakefloodParticipantIf Kemper Freeman had his way, and with Bellevue and ETA he does – the entire planet would be lanes of pavement (no HOV or BRT) and high rises.
And you think that’s hyperbole.
April 17, 2014 at 10:35 pm #807011
JoBParticipantyou really should click metrognome’s link in post 8 to see the graphs because they tell the story in a way that text just can’t..
but for those who won’t look further..
“It’s true that Metro’s sales tax collections have increased each of the last three years, and will increase again this year, but that omits the crucial fact that revenue fell off a cliff between 2008 and 2009, bottoming out in 2010, for a total drop of about $72 million.
Despite this plunge in revenue, the total amount of service Metro provides has dipped only very slightly. Instead, over the last three years, that hole has been filled with a combination of fare hikes and operational cost savings, along with about $344 million of one-time cash transfers, notably including $180 million from axed capital programs and $41 million from operational reserves.
Those measures, taken at the behest of elected officials, whose directive to Metro was to preserve service at all costs, are now exhausted, but an ongoing gap of about $75 million/year remains between what Metro needs to continue offering its current level of service, and what Metro’s sales tax is bringing in. Closing that gap will require either a major cut in the quantity of service Metro delivers, or new revenue, which, along with helping the dire state of County Roads, is what Prop 1 will do.”
bottom line.. there is an ongoing gap of 75 million a year to maintain current service.
funding metro is a far better idea than sitting on the freeway waiting for your turn on the West Seattle Bridge..
April 18, 2014 at 12:03 am #807012
clark5080ParticipantThat gap is almost totally gone if Metro and King County had the balls to stand up to the union and restructure the medical insurance for dependents and make the union members pay some of the cost
April 18, 2014 at 1:42 am #807013
JoBParticipantcalrk5080
i am pretty sure that is a false argument.. that the savings would not be sufficient to make up a 75 million dollar shortfall
but even if the shortfall was smaller…i wouldn’t want them to stand up to the union and restructure the medical insurance for dependents.
i don’t want the person driving my bus to be distracted by worry over their family’s ability to obtain medical care.
just because big business is doing everything it can to stip benefits from employees doesn’t mean we should.
taking care of the well being of the person driving your bus just makes sense. the driver’s seat is not where you want a worried stressed out exhausted person.
April 19, 2014 at 4:13 am #807014
Militant ModerateMemberI hope that the proposition passes. And there are also reforms that need to be addressed, such as overtime pay.
But, unlike what the opponents of Prop 1 would have you believe, these two views are NOT mutually exclusive. King County can simultaneously walk and chew bubble gum; they can ensure adequate funding for Metro and also reign in costs without cutting service.
April 19, 2014 at 2:31 pm #807015
JoBParticipantApril 21, 2014 at 8:28 am #807016
HMC RichParticipantMetro is not transparent. They and Dow Constantine need to own up to what is really happening.
Read this please.
I don’t mind paying a little extra for bus services, but not for these clowns. Sorry, they are not being forthcoming. Dow and crew are not reacting to the change in revenue.
Tell us the truth and maybe we will vote yes.
April 21, 2014 at 1:42 pm #807017
JoBParticipantWow Rich..
the facts matter
“THE campaign for King County Proposition 1 says 600,000 hours of Metro bus service would be cut if voters don’t approve the measure.
At best, that’s disingenuous. The facts matter when asking voters to increase car tabs from $20 to $60 and to raise the sales tax 0.1 percent on the April 22 ballot.
In fact, Metro has known since at least March 13 that better-than-expected tax collections would reduce the expected cut down to 550,000 hours”
according to the article you posted we are only going to lose 550,00 hours of bus service not 600,000.
so you are down with losing 550,000 bus hours?
it’s obvious you don’t ride the bus.
but.. whether you care about those who do or not.. this will still affect you.
like i said before.. the choice is obvious. either we invest in quality bus service or we sit on the freeway waiting for the West Seattle Bridge to clear.
if you can’t vote for compassion
you can vote your own self interest
April 23, 2014 at 9:21 am #807018
HMC RichParticipantBut JoB, If I understand the article, they weren’t going to do anything even with the better numbers.
Go back, come up with a better plan and I might vote for it.
I don’t see anyplace that says we have to cater to every person in this city. Sometimes there is hardship, which really sucks, but there is not enough money to pay for everything.
This entitlement thought process has gone way too far. Yes, this is harsh. I don’t like the bus fares as high as they are. I know it hurts people of limited income.
But you just can’t keep taxing everyone. And considering the debacles the city has had in the past few years which have cost the taxpayers, Monorail and Big Bertha, we deserve more accountablility from them.
You and I elected Dow (Well I didn’t)and crew. They need to work this out. That is their job.
April 23, 2014 at 9:37 am #807019
HMC RichParticipantAnd don’t lecture me on sitting in traffic. The ridiculous thought process of the people who have been in charge of transit and our roads is and has been so frustrating.
At least Sound Transit got its act together after a horrible, and I mean HORRIBLE, start to light rail.
But on Freeways, the options we have been given are laughable. Too many chokepoints. Helter Skelter exits and on ramps.
I-5 has the express lanes, which only works well for drivers in the morning coming in from the North and in the evening leaving from the South. Plus there are not any HOV lanes on the mainline from Northgate to about Boren (ish).
There are no HOV lanes that go on I-90 all the way through the Mainline from Seattle to I-405. Traffic open to morning rush hour into Seattle on the Express lanes and open out of Seattle in the afternoon.
The mainlines need HOV lines. Since there probably isn’t enough room for them on the mainlines, change the Express lanes. Have them become HOV lanes with traffic going both ways at the same time. Oh Yes, the Mercer Island people might complain but OH WELL.
The Chokepoints on I-5 and especially I-90 are ridiculous.
At least 405 was somewhat expanded with HOV lanes and a few extra lanes. And not fully enforcing the HOV lanes on off hours has helped. There they almost got it right. About 2 or 3 more lanes could help.
Plus, there are the old rail lines that could be used again. (Shovel Ready Projects). I will pay for that. I would’ve been happy to have Bike and Train lanes on Burke Gilman, and the lines that run through Renton and Bellevue.
There are solutions. but what do I know. I only drive, walk, and ride on these systems.
April 23, 2014 at 1:19 pm #807020
JoBParticipantHMCRich
your argument is the same one i have heard over and over again since i moved here..
it amounts to “let them eat cake”
if you voted no you are probably not one of those people who depend upon the 550,000 rides that will disappear because you think we really should have something better
April 23, 2014 at 2:29 pm #807021
wakefloodParticipantOK, well now we get to test those um…logical(??) arguments that the state legislature will view this vote as GREAT REASON to pass a transit/transportation bill they’ve been sitting on for two years.
Holding your breath, are you? Me neither.
Here’s another nice outcome of the vote. Metro will have disenfranchised customers raking them over the coals at every public meeting about lost or reduced services…which leads to low approval ratings…which get trotted out every time funding transit comes up in any venue, greatly reducing the incentive to add funding…and the downward spiral continues…
But yeah, traffic sucks in this region.
Wonder why? I have seen the enemy, and he is us.
April 23, 2014 at 5:10 pm #807022
skeeterParticipantThis is interesting. From today’s Times:
“The Move King County Now campaign raised $654,922 in contributions, compared with $7,700 for the opposition, called Families for Sustainable Transit.”
http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2023435527_metrovotexml.html
So those of us who supported Prop 1 (including Skeeter!) can’t really say this vote was bought. My guess is voters, particularly in the ‘burbs hate, hate, hate any tax on automobiles.
April 23, 2014 at 5:46 pm #807023
wakefloodParticipantYeah, you think that’s what was spent in opposition? There was plenty of money funneled through other avenues, and the Seattle Times was happy to throw cold water on it via the Ed Board. Not to mention every local conservative talking head on radio – which is to say, all of them.
Not saying that ‘burbs hating taxes on cars isn’t true, cuz it is, but it also doesn’t mean that $8K was what was spent.
April 23, 2014 at 5:49 pm #807024
JanSParticipantskeeter..not just hating any tax on automobiles…hate any tax on almost anything (not talking about me – taxes are a necessary evil).Haters will be haters…I noticed this on the comments about Pres. O’s visit to Oso yesterday. We here in the PNW are not immune to ignorant (uninformed, disrespectful) hate :(
April 23, 2014 at 6:30 pm #807025
JoBParticipant“With workweek Metro ridership currently serving 400,000 riders daily, expect the cuts to increase traffic congestion with an estimated 30,000 more cars on the roads.”
read it and weep..
you will find voter psychoanalysis here too..
i personally loved the comment that we don’t buy regressive taxes to support progressive causes…
i wonder who the OP thought that reduced bus service was going to hit hardest?
just a hint.. it wasn’t high salaried progressives.
April 23, 2014 at 6:40 pm #807026
wakefloodParticipantAnd a good chunk of those 30,000 will be sitting next to us on the WS bridge every frickin’ day. Congratulations, citizens, you yet again successfully screwed yourselves with lack of foresight.
-
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.