Home › Forums › Open Discussion › Now Denny's is getting involved (healthcare related)
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November 16, 2012 at 11:59 pm #777496
DBPMemberPerhaps this is a good time to remind people that whenever you talk in terms like . . .
Â
The fools/zombies/sheep
 who believe the
lies/hatred/crap
 the other side is
spewing/parroting/droning.
Â
–you are really just insulting your fellow bloggers by indirect means.
So while you might think you’re being all decorous and polite, you’re really not. And that would include me too, of course. Because it’s not like I never insult people on here. But I do at least try to be aware of that when I’m doing it, so I can keep it from getting out of hand.
Thank you.
November 17, 2012 at 12:02 am #777497
wakefloodParticipantHey DBP, I never meant to imply that Obama ISN’T a plutocrat, he most surely is. But of the Democratic variety. Which is to say his allegiance to the Chicago School/trickle down is only slightly tempered by having a soul.
Let’s face it, the current Dem party is closer to the Nixonian GOP than anything progressive. Sure, they pay lipservice to the progressive platform but they cave to the $. And it only gets worse as post-Citizen’s United time rolls on.
I bashed Obama all over the place in his first term for caving on everything. And I wish he had stood stronger for Medicaid for all in ACA.
Did you think me an apologist for him? I’m just saying he worked hard to at least try to create change. But if you think I believe that the campaign contributions listed above AREN’T a payoff for caving on ACA volume discounts, you’d be wrong. In a world of shaded grey, he’s just lighter than many others.
November 17, 2012 at 12:02 am #777498
dobroParticipant“‘splain that to me please.”
Some folks are capable of differentiating a person with character trying to do the best thing he can for the people against enormous odds vs. a plutocrat that could give a sh*t about anybody that’s not in his 1%.
And then there are some fools that just think everybody’s the same.
Critical thinking skills rock.
November 17, 2012 at 12:24 am #777499
SmittyParticipantYou guys can piss and moan about lobbyist, congress and the like but Obama owns this. Owns it. Plain and simple. Fergawdsakes people refer to it as Obamacare. He himself, said as much during the first debate. You think this is like global warming and you can wave a magic wand and start calling it climate change?
Own it.
Own it.
Own it.
And, live with the repercussions.
November 17, 2012 at 12:29 am #777500
LindseyParticipant@DBP There is some wiggle room in the law allowing for small groups, low market share in a specific state or area, mini-med and expatriate plans, etc. The provision is already in place and over a billion dollars have already been paid out, so it’s not as hypothetical as you make it seem. It’s happening!
@Bostonman Most of us in Washington will not see a refund. Out state is dominated by the big Blues, who met their MLR targets. But if you had Cigna, United Healthcare or Aetna, you may have received a refund. You can look up refunds by state and company at
http://companyprofiles.healthcare.gov/
However, this doesn’t mean you got a check. The refunds can be issued to the plan or it can be issued to the employer. There are many states where individuals received a check.
November 17, 2012 at 12:30 am #777501
dobroParticipantI agree. Own it. Because in 5 or 6 years after Obama and President Hilary Clinton have had a chance to tweak it, its gonna work out fine. The hardest part was getting it started, which Obama did successfully.
November 17, 2012 at 12:33 am #777502
wakefloodParticipantOwned. Done.
What are you owning from your side of the aisle, Smitty?
Couple suggestions:
Iraq – You have a trillion $ to spare for that don’t you?
The Great Recession – You’re good with the elimination of several trillion $ of your fellow citizens net wealth, right? Homes, retirements, pensions, jobs, etc.? Owning that today?
Just checking…
November 17, 2012 at 12:54 am #777503
SmittyParticipantNovember 17, 2012 at 1:56 am #777504
DBPMember>>Some folks are capable of differentiating a person with character trying to do the best thing he can for the people against enormous odds vs. a plutocrat that could give a sh*t about anybody that’s not in his 1%.
Â
Attention Bloggers!
One of the limousines below belongs to a plutocrat who could give a sh*t about anybody that’s not in his 1%.
The other belongs to a person with character trying to do the best thing he can for the people against enormous odds.
Â
Can you tell which is which?
Â
 Â
Â
 Â
Â
{Take your time now. Call a friend if you like.}
Â
November 17, 2012 at 1:59 am #777505
DBPMemberNovember 17, 2012 at 2:05 am #777506
SmittyParticipant“One of the limousines below belongs to a plutocrat who could give a sh*t about anybody that’s not in his 1%.”
I need a hint. Why would anyone who didn’t give sh*t about anyone not in his 1% run for public office? Is this a trick question?
November 17, 2012 at 2:09 am #777507
dobroParticipantOne is owned by, and paid for with the taxes of, the American people, to safely and securely shuttle their President around while the other is owned by a plutocrat, paid for by the sweat of people whose jobs he outsourced to China, and has its own personal elevator.
They look similar, but they’re not the same. See how that works?
November 17, 2012 at 2:19 am #777508
JoBParticipantSmitty..
“I was simply pointing out that ACA has some pretty lousy consequences for certain folks. My buddy used to have a 40 hour per week job with no medical benefits at $10.50/hour. Now he has been notified he will have a 29 hour per week job with no medical benefits at $10.50/hour.”
the ACA didn’t do this.. his employer did.
If that employer was taxed on their profits, they would be reinvesting the money they now take as profit into their business and their employees.
wouldn’t that be a novel idea.
November 17, 2012 at 2:34 am #777509
JoBParticipantBostonman
“How so JoB? I think having a revamped healthcare program is what was needed, no doubt. But, does anyone expect insurance companies to pass on any savings to other policy holders? If you do then you are living in a pipe dream.”
there is no pipe dream here..
but if you take a closer look at Obamacare you will find provisions that have not yet kicked in..
one of them functions as a cap on insurance company profits
it’s not a solution.. but it is a start.
“You do know Wall street in many ways is seperate from most companies right? I am sure you do. Wall street is for public companies. Most of those companies off shore their jobs anyways.”
yes i do know most companies are separate from wall street. i wish they knew it too.
“Most business aren’t associated with wall street. They are just trying to get by. But, they are owned by individual investors who are trying to get a return on their dollar.”
if a small business loses sight of it’s product, it will fail.
In service industries where there is a move towards part time employees,
the primary product is service which is dependent upon employees.
employees who resent their employers don’t deliver the kind of service that keeps a service business open…
i do agree that there is a move towards part time, temporary and contract work to minimize labor costs..
I know of a major factory here in town that seems to employ mainly temporary workers to keep costs down.
Unfortunately, it has the side effect of keeping product failures up.
I wonder when some smart teacher somewhere will start teaching management types that your success is dependent upon your product
and your product is dependent upon your employees.
When that happens the tide will turn.
current conventional wisdom among management is that the way to increase profits is to lower labor costs…
managers are managing good companies with great products out of business :(
November 17, 2012 at 2:42 am #777510
JoBParticipantdobro..
once again. i think i love you
but then, i wish to believe in at least part of the dream.
we will see.
November 17, 2012 at 3:44 pm #777511
SmittyParticipant“I wonder when some smart teacher somewhere will start teaching management types that your success is dependent upon your product
and your product is dependent upon your employees.
When that happens the tide will turn.”
See: Apple. Inc. and Foxconn
November 18, 2012 at 4:07 pm #777512
redblackParticipantsmitty: i, too, will own PP/ACA. love it or hate it, it got people in this country talking about how to reduce the cost of health care in america from 17% of our GDP. and it has people questioning why employers are largely responsible for providing americans’ health care premiums. and it made people examine the differences between medicare and private insurance. and it made people speak up about being denied coverage for arbitrary reasons.
consider it owned.
no, it isn’t single payer. yes, big insurance and big pharma took that option away from us by bribing the decision makers and through massive advertising campaigns.
but let me ask you something:
if you few reasonable-sounding republicans in here can agree that single payer is better than PP/ACA, when are you going to get off your asses and tell people like doc hastings and dave reichart and john boehner to vote the way you want them to vote – instead of voting the way their golf-partner lobbyist friends pay them to vote?
believe me, liberals are still pissed off at max baucus for having single-payer advocates removed from the capitol during PP/ACA/health insurance hearings. and at obama for the reasons you all have cited regarding pharma.
but to use a country witticism, half a loaf is better than no loaf.
November 18, 2012 at 4:26 pm #777513
JoBParticipantNovember 19, 2012 at 9:19 pm #777514
wakefloodParticipantredblack, I’ve wondered the same thing. I certainly wish those business-minded conservatives would finish their logic progression – the one that starts with: Why do businesses have to bear the financial brunt of health care supply?? – and think all the way through it and get to Single Payer. It’s prima facia so bass-ackwards that it shouldn’t take long to get there for godsakes.
And if they HAVE gotten that far…1. Allah Bless ’em and 2. DEMAND IT.
:-)
November 20, 2012 at 4:07 am #777515
redblackParticipantwake: yeah. and if you really want to blow their minds, explain to them that the government doesn’t necessarily have to be the single payer. it can be a private entity. it just can’t operate for-profit.
November 22, 2012 at 7:27 am #777516
kootchmanMemberWell, shucks redblack at one time, the auto/truck industry was at its zenith, over 28 per cent of GDP. Did that mean we had to have a “single maker” government takeover? In fact, in some countries, the was 0% of GDP. We got choices, competitors, and in the main… we all drive better cars, that last longer, are more economical, have GPS and Stereo systems and cost less in real dollars than the shit they produced circa 1970. We have a healthcare industry that is 16 per cent of GDP.. and it gets larger, bigger, it’s because there are more choices and we will benefit immensely. I paid out of pocket for a cardio scan… EBT… $1500….. that same test…20 years later after three manufacturers are in the imaging business… $280. That’s what free enterprise does. Take a look at the patents related to new drugs. micro surgery, cancer therapies… no country even comes close. I hope it becomes 25% of GDP…. it means a growing, vital industry. Costs always come down…. marginal cost/marginal revenue… the intersection of the two is as old as economics. When the last unit produced equals the cost of production then the expansion and growth is over. Sadly though… because of our tax code.. we build these wonders… and Germany buys them. Oh redblack…what will you do when Mahindra and Chinese cares hit the market? Who would start a private industry as a non-profit? That’s no fun.
November 22, 2012 at 9:57 am #777517
kootchmanMemberThe trillions lost in Iraq.. are now eclipsed by the Obama spending in Afghanistan… go figure. Time to let the air out of those tires.
The Great Recession – You’re good with the elimination of several trillion $ of your fellow citizens net wealth, right? Homes, retirements, pensions, jobs, etc.? Owning that today?
Complete lack of understanding… of basic economics. Homes, retirement accounts, fiscal collapse… no evil force took them.. the market turned against artificially inflated values…. mostly in housing… and housing policy is in government hands.. they made the rules, set the loan standards, made crappy credit decisions, and bought and sold the trash. Bubbles burst … if banks were holding loans in their porfolios instead of dumping them in FHA designed derivatives … they would have been far more cautious. Collect the points, give the loan, sell all the risk and keep the fees? Who would resist?
November 22, 2012 at 2:58 pm #777518
redblackParticipantyeah, but when 50 million americans can’t afford to see a doctor, what good is all of that technology?
well, it’s good for primera and anthem and GSK, who are rolling in it…
tell ya’ what. you convince the private insurance industry and big pharma to take their profits and use them to insure poor people, and we’ll call the whole thing off.
in the meantime, though, we are setting up the exchanges, we are going to regulate the insurance industry (not the medical industry, not research and development – insurance) further to reduce costs to consumers, and no one is going to repeal obamacare.
and what is this crap about losing wealth? you off your meds again?
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