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June 13, 2015 at 2:00 am #817691
TanDLParticipantToday I had just crossed California on Fauntleroy, heading East. I pulled into the left turn lane to turn into Super Supplements and a bus pulled up from the opposite direction, stopped and totally blocked the driveway into Super Supplements. I hadn’t noticed the bus stop before, but now there is a bus stop that can’t be used by buses without blocking that driveway. I sat there while the bus blocked West bound traffic on Fauntleroy and I was stuck blocking the traffic behind me in the turn lane – because I couldn’t go anywhere.
Can Metro legally put in a bus stop just on the other side of a driveway so that when the bus stops it will block the driveway? Anybody know?
June 13, 2015 at 4:23 am #824953
KBearParticipantI assume the bus loaded up and moved on, allowing you access to your destination. Not sure what the problem is here.
June 13, 2015 at 3:54 pm #824954
TanDLParticipantYou are right KBear. The bus did load and unload while traffic was at a standstill for 2 – 3 full minutes. From now on I will wait more patiently in gridlock, breathing traffic fumes allowing Metro’s lack of common sense to wash over me in a more Zen-like fashion. The funny thing was that a bicycle was even caught in the mess… he either had to go up on the sidewalk and pass the bus on the right, navigating through pedestrians on the sidewalk and traffic trying to exit the Super Supplement lot or sit behind the bus and breathe fumes like the rest of us. He chose to wait behind the bus but clearly the gridlock wasn’t making him any happier than the rest of us.
My question is still this: Does anybody know if it’s legal for Metro to place a stop a couple of feet short of a driveway, so that a bus will block a driveway when it stops?
June 13, 2015 at 5:58 pm #824955
SmittyParticipantDon’t be so selfish Tan. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, you know. (Even if the “few” are creating a backup that indirectly impact another bus – hmmm)
Ride the bus, walk or bike(and brag about it) if you want to get around efficiently.
That’s how Europe does it.
(sarcasm)
June 13, 2015 at 10:45 pm #824956
metrognomeParticipantgenerally, the jurisdiction in which Metro is operating, in this case the city of Seattle, approves bus stop locations. There are also safety guidelines that Metro follows to reduce the chance of accidents. An example is not putting a zone nearside of an intersection where car drivers are tempted to swing around the stopped bus to turn right. This also helps protect people using the bike rack and discourages debarking passengers from jumping off and running in front of the bus smack into an oncoming car.
At this intersection, there are a couple of driveways in close proximity plus the curb lane turns into a right-turn-only lane. That meant putting it as close to the intersection as they could so departing riders would have the shortest possible walk to the intersection or transfer zones without impinging on the right turn lane onto NB California.
And, after all that, I checked both Google Maps and Metro’s Find-A-Stop and there is no bus stop marked at that location; the official stop is farside California by the Zeek’s parking lot. So, either it is a ‘drop only’ stop, which generally aren’t marked on maps so people don’t go there to wait to be picked up, or, because the bus was stopped due to traffic, the driver let some folks deboard whose destination was nearside California to save them a few minutes.
(no sarcasm)
June 13, 2015 at 11:17 pm #824957
miwsParticipantmetrognome, the stop is for 116/118/119. There’s a sign there, and I’m pretty sure it has those route numbers on it.
My perspective though, when seeing it, is a quick glance from onboard a 128 just after the turn off of NB 42nd, and 99% the time I’m getting ready to get off at the Cal/Faunt stop to go to Thriftway, so may info may not be totally accurate. ;-)
Mike
June 14, 2015 at 12:36 am #824958
metrognomeParticipantthanks MIWS; I’m not in a position to get there to look at it and my memory ain’t as good as it never was …
I’m guessing it’s a drop-off only stop for WB return riders who boarded EB at the Faunt/Morgan island stop. The 116 schedule lists a stop at Faunt/Cal but I’m pretty sure that’s the one by Zeeks because RR-C, which supplements the 116, stops there too.
I finally forced Trip Planner to find a WB stop on Fauntleroy at 42nd, even tho it doesn’t show on other maps. It is stop 19077 but it shows no upcoming departures (I picked Monday at 5:30p and there is a bus leaving Zeeks at 5:41p.)
If you want to explore further Mike, here’s the link (had to break the link so it wouldn’t block an ad):
http://tripplanner.kingcounty.gov/hiwire?
.a=iNextBusResults&StopId=19077&StopName=
TanDL — this is probably way more than you wanted to know, but once transit nerds get going …
June 14, 2015 at 1:31 am #824959
miwsParticipantJune 14, 2015 at 1:20 pm #824960
TanDLParticipantDear “transit nerds”… you made me laugh!
I don’t recall seeing the sign there before Friday and I’ve been in the Super Sup/Dental office parking lot numerous times over the past couple of years (via car, bike and on foot – for Smitty’s post, which also made me laugh). I think the sign and stop are very new which was why I was so stunned to be stuck in the left turn lane while traffic backed up in all lanes around me.
June 14, 2015 at 2:27 pm #824961
miwsParticipantIt’s been there for awhile, TanDL, and throughout this discussion I’ve been wracking my brain (and there ain’t much left to wrack), as to whether that stop has been there for several years, or just nearly three, since Rapid Ride cam to town. I think it’s the latter, as I seem to recall the 116 stopping at the far side stop, next to Zeek’s parking lot, back when I rode the 54 to that stop all the time. My guess is Metro put the 116 stop where it is now, to alleviate bunching at the Zeek’s stop.
Mike
June 14, 2015 at 4:19 pm #824962
TanDLParticipantGuess I have never had the luxury of seeing a bus actually stop there until the other day. And, I have to disagree about your brain. Perhaps they should put a bus stop 1/2 block before all major bus stops to alleviate bunching up. Maybe a stop on every block… ha… that’ll solve the problem. I worry much more about the brains at work at Metro.
June 16, 2015 at 4:04 am #824963
metrognomeParticipantMIWS – I think your theory about bunching is correct, with the frequency of RR-C and that turn it has to make from Cal to Faunt and then try to stop at the Zeek’s zone while getting its rear end out of traffic. Since RR-C also goes to the ferry dock, it makes sense that the other zone is drop-off only.
The other reason the mystery zone is located where it is is to make sure WB vehicles rounding the curve at 45 mph to make a ferry have plenty of time to see the bus before they hit it.
TanDL – the brains at Metro work fine; they just can’t make everyone happy, given the complexity of the operating environment.
p.s. I’ve been ‘racking’ my brain instead of ‘wracking’ it; that may explain a few things…
June 16, 2015 at 4:30 am #824964
miwsParticipantI actually Googled the wracking/racking thing, because although I was mostly sure the “w” spelling was correct, wasn’t 100% sure.
Took a quick look at one result, and it seemed to say that either one was acceptable.
Mike
June 16, 2015 at 2:12 pm #824965
TanDLParticipantWell, placing a major stop that impacts as stated:
“with the frequency of RR-C and that turn it has to make from Cal to Faunt and then try to stop at the Zeek’s zone while getting its rear end out…”
then realizing they might need to install a drop-off zone up the road to alleviate a bit of the mess caused by the first ill-placed stop, may seem like the result of fine working brains to you, but we can agree to disagree. Won’t even go into the snarl created close the same corner by the bump-out stop on Calif. north of the intersection. Perhaps those brilliant brains will decide to put a stop in front of Thriftway to alleviate that bunching, so even more people can run across the intersection in both directions against the lights and in gridlocked traffic to try and catch their buses.
June 16, 2015 at 3:29 pm #824966
HelperMonkeyParticipantyou’ve clearly never experienced the joy of leaving the Wells Fargo drive through only to be stuck waiting for multiple buses, all blocking the exit. Stuff happens. I’d be way more worried about buses blocking intersections (like they do frequently in Morgan Junction) rather than driveways.
June 16, 2015 at 5:01 pm #824967
JTBParticipantThat’s a really awkward location for making a left hand turn, bus or no bus. My sense is anyone choosing to execute that maneuver is taking an obvious risk. If the small painted island was of any use functionally, there wouldn’t be much of an issue with waiting to make that turn when traffic cleared. And that’s saying nothing about the vehicles entering Fauntleroy from 42nd Ave SW, about 15 feet east of the the SS drive way.
June 16, 2015 at 11:06 pm #824968
metrognomeParticipantI would point out that Metro did not design the street grid in WS and has no say vis-à-vis location of businesses and their driveways. Metro has to shoehorn facilities into an existing environment that seems to worsen by the day, traffic-wise and commercial building/multi-family residence-wise. I think they have come up with the best zone locations they can; I doubt if the homeowner behind Zeeks would like the zone in front of their home; besides, zone locations are selected partially on proximity to signalized intersections to reduce the number of ped fatalities by em/debarking passengers running across in the middle of the block.
I will agree about the ridiculousness of the bump outs that were installed for RR-C. I understand the reasoning (saving time, reducing accidents, etc.) but I felt that they were going to be a problem in some locations, incl. Cal/Faunt. If I hadn’t retired, I would have pushed harder against that location as I think the curb extension causes a problem for lift/ramp users because of the interface angle between the road with a high crown and the sidewalk.
So, in what perfect places would you locate these zones?
June 16, 2015 at 11:56 pm #824969
JoBParticipantin a perfect world our public transportation system would run on it’s own designated pedestrian friendly corridors
June 17, 2015 at 2:41 am #824970
JanSParticipantperfection is illusive ;-)
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