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March 12, 2014 at 4:38 am #610711
paulfishMemberI am a teacher in the Seattle School District and thought you should know how ridiculous this season can get. Teachers, students, staff and administration have been meeting overtime for the last two weeks under ridiculous time pressure imposed by the District to figure out (our annual ritual) how to “do more with less.”
While the State Supreme Court has ruled that the State is in violation of the State Constitution because of inadequate school funding, again this year our funds have been cut while we are told to expect another 100 students next year – already beyond the capacity of the building.
Part of the District’s “do more with less” plan this year is to cut administrative positions at all schools – that’s finance, secretaries for the counseling and front office, and attendance staff. Our school is losing 40% of these “Classified” positions.
Crazy. But here’s where it gets really crazy: Today, Jose Banda, the Superintendent of the Seattle Schools sent an e-mail to all District employees letting us know that Governor Inslee proclaimed this week as Classified School Employees Week for 2014.
Here’s a quote from Banda’s e-mail: “While they may not wear capes or leap over buildings in a single bound, they are often the unsung heroes in supporting the learning environment and our students. It is often Classified employees who notice the student who needs a smile or someone to listen and then give them what they need.”
Huh?
March 12, 2014 at 5:56 am #805579
snaParticipantSorry about the reductions, but “do more with less” what?
– District revenue is up 8.1% in the 2014 budget (page 24)
– Full time employees are increasing across the board (page 33)
– The district spends $12,500 per student (math)
I believe I will die before i hear a school district say “y’know…I think we have enough funding to do a pretty good job.”
March 12, 2014 at 6:40 am #805580
JeannieParticipantI support our schools, and our dedicated teachers, 100%. But what galls me is that our real-estate taxes keep increasing – largely, I assume, to fund schools – yet a good chunk of our tax dollars is misappropriated/wasted. Our schools deserve better!
From what I’ve read about Banda, I’m not too impressed. And that email quote strikes me as a tad patronizing.
March 12, 2014 at 9:00 am #805581
LynnParticipantsna,
Lied you miss page one?
“For the first time since 2009 there were incremental revenue increases per student from state funding. While not fully meeting the planned implementation schedule towards their court ordered obligations, the state did make significant steps towards funding Basic Education. For this, we are very grateful. Based on $23.8 million of incremental funding the district did not have to make cuts due to state funding shortfalls. While no additional cuts were required the incremental funding does not offset the $23.5 million of cuts made in the 2012-13 budget, the $45 million reductions made for the 2011-12 budget, the $31 million in cuts we took for the 2010-11 budget and the $34 million in cuts we took for the 2009-10 budget.
While state funding for the district increased federal funding decreased by almost $7 million, due primarily to sequestration.”
March 12, 2014 at 4:01 pm #805582
snaParticipantWS Lynn –
You need to understand the districts meaning of the word “cuts”. Most people interpret that word to mean they spent less than the year before, but in district budget speak it means they spent less than some arbitrary baseline they created. Like “I think I need $50M, but I will only spend $40M. Therefore I cut $10M!”
The fact is district spending has increased every year. Below are the budgets back to 2009-10
2009-10 => $556M
2010-11 => $566M
2011-12 => $577M
2012-13 => $590M
2013-14 => $639M
March 12, 2014 at 4:35 pm #805583
skeeterParticipantThe district is spending $12,500 per student and there is still inadequate funding?
March 12, 2014 at 5:03 pm #805584
wakefloodParticipantDon’t know where I stand on the whole picture but I found a couple of pieces of data that might be pertinent.
As of FY 2011, the Seattle School District’s 2014 avg of $12,500 per student would put them around 13th highest in the Country BY STATE. Which is to say, if Seattle was a state, they would rank near the bottom of the top third.
http://www.governing.com/gov-data/education-data/state-education-spending-per-pupil-data.html
I do think that public education needs some kind of overhaul. The Finland model might teach us some lessons about inputs vs. outcomes and what we’re really trying to achieve. More on that here:
And then, on the compensation side, there’s some concepts here from Matt Miller’s “Two Percent Solution” – which deals with transforming how we pay/retain teachers. At the very least, it’s a good discussion starter.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2003/07/a-new-deal-for-teachers/302763/
What seems to be fairly certain at this point is that we’re using an outdated paradigm for education and keep short-term triaging the situation to no one’s great satisfaction. In most societal situations, this indicates some radical moves. Just what those are/should be are up for debate but I suspect that a few strongly-held beliefs by EVERYONE with dogs in this fight will need to be torn asunder.
March 12, 2014 at 5:35 pm #805585
skeeterParticipantDoes anyone know how much money a charter school gets? I can’t believe that a charter school would get $12,500 per student it enrolls.
For comparison purposes, Holy Rosary School in West Seattle spends $8,125 per student. I know it’s apples to oranges because SPS has students with special needs that HR doesn’t have.
March 12, 2014 at 5:43 pm #805586
wakefloodParticipantDon’t know either, skeets. I’m dubious about Charter Schools for the simple fact that they’re usually vested in one of two things. A)Religious indoctrination. B)Corporate cog indoctrination.
Remember when civics used to be part of a core curriculum? When music, creativity, exploring your potential were values? (Not talking in place of the basics, mind you, but as required additions to as opposed to being the first thing tossed overboard.)
March 12, 2014 at 5:58 pm #805587
skeeterParticipantOur child just turned three. So we are two years away from kindergarten. I must admit I am both very excited and very afraid that I’ll soon be a parent of child in the education system. Wakeflood I’ll be asking for your input/advice soon because I don’t know what we’re going to do (public school vs alternative public school vs charter school vs private school.)
I think Seattle particularly struggles because there are many private schools. You’re taking so many kids from wealthy families with often very involved parents and taking them out of the public school system. I just don’t think we can ever have a successful education system until wealthy families send their children to the same schools as poor families.
March 12, 2014 at 6:05 pm #805588
wakefloodParticipantThanks for the vote of confidence, skeets but I’m not the one you should look toward for advice.
I’m a product of the Catholic parochial school system through high school and a public liberal arts college but those experiences were years ago and I’m not sure how much has changed in either instance. More importantly, I have no children of my own but nephews and nieces and godchildren and that are the products of both public and private Seattle schools. Which is to say my experiences are second hand and of less value, accordingly.
But your point regarding what is successful is spot on. That’s why the Finland model seems worthwhile investigating.
March 12, 2014 at 6:35 pm #805589
skeeterParticipantWell now I want your input even more Wakeflood. The challenge in soliciting input from parents is they tend to praise/recommend whatever choice they made often to validate their own decisions. You can take the experiences of your nieces, nephews, and godchildren and share your (mostly) unbiased observations. I’m also hitting my parents up for advice. My mom is a retired teacher and has given me a few good tools to work with.
FWIW I attended Catholic schools from first grade through college. My wife attended public schools from first grade through college. Both of us seemed to get a quality education that gave us the skills we needed. Neither of us attended schools in Seattle, though.
March 12, 2014 at 6:55 pm #805590
wakefloodParticipantI think it’s one of the toughest things for a society to get right – and keep right. Mostly because you have such a wide variety of students with different ways of absorbing material that you’re always looking to maximize a system that is inherently only able to be significantly successful with some middle category of student. The outliers on either end tend to get less out of the experience that isn’t geared to their particular issue.
This is of course why there’s AP tracks, and Charter Schools, etc. (Excluding the religiously-affiliated schools that have other agendas.)
And most of those options are aimed at students from higher income brackets and/or have high mental aptitude. Who does that leave out? The harder cases to be successful with. So you end up trying to gear curriculum and all the other attributes of child-rearing into a system that by its population makeup – has an INHERENTLY tougher job. And it’s not always what’s happening inside the classroom that affects the outcomes.
Did I get my head slammed against a chalkboard in 5th grade by a nun? Yes I did. Was it effective? Um…who’s to say? I can’t tell you and I’m the one who endured it! Maybe the greater lesson wasn’t about how to diagram a sentence but how to not piss off authority figures?
Like I said, tough nut to crack, that education thing.
March 14, 2014 at 4:33 pm #805591
wakefloodParticipantAnd another reason to be dubious about the true agenda of Charter Schools:
From an article today:
“You can’t say this often enough.
Money matters in politics.
Forget principle. Think money.
Andrew Cuomo wants to be re-elected governor of New York with a large majority.
He has raised $33 million.
One of his biggest sources of money is Wall Street.
Wall Street loves charter schools.
Wall Street doesn’t love public schools.”
Let me ask anyone who thinks Charter Schools are the answer, I have a few questions.
If Wall Street loves them, they MUST be about profit. What other elements of our societal commons that Wall St. has manipulated have turned out for the greater good? For profit Health Care? For profit Colleges?
Do you really think this is about creating better educated youth? Or is it about making sweet, sweet $ at the expense of the greater good? Like any of these Kings of the World send their kids to public schools anyway…
March 14, 2014 at 8:45 pm #805592
skeeterParticipantConservatives will claim that the quest for profit leads to competition and competition leads to better quality for the consumer. Most people will agree this holds true for manufactured goods and professional services. We don’t know if it will be true for primary/secondary education in Washington State because we are in new territory.
March 14, 2014 at 9:49 pm #805593
wakefloodParticipantI don’t think it’s that hard to make the very short leap from the experience of for-profit colleges, skeets. Why not, it’s the template that the investors are surely looking at?
Here’s some recent news:
“Following a two-year investigation, the U.S. Senate Committee on Health, Labor, Education and Pensions [HELP] yesterday released a dense and damning report on the for-profit college industry. While the committee, chaired by Sen. Tom Harkin [D-Iowa], acknowledged the changing face of post-secondary education, and the need for flexible schedules and coursework, it concludes that for-profit colleges are asking “students with modest financial resources to take a big risk by enrolling in high-tuition schools.”
In short, the profit motive doesn’t work for everything. It doesn’t maximize humans, it maximizes one thing…profit. And sometimes at the cost of human benefit.
I have great, and I would argue, warranted skepticism that this is wise. We already have several tiers of educational experience. Why do we need this one whose primary goal is NOT the education of its students?
March 14, 2014 at 10:02 pm #805594
wakefloodParticipantAnd let me add, that while this isn’t a zero-sum game, in that a dollar that goes into a for-profit school DOESN’T automatically mean a dollar less for public education, you can’t tell me that any chance the more well-off have to take taxes out of the big funding bucket and direct it to their own purposes, they won’t do just that. Consequently, less well to do who can’t afford to do the same will suffer over time.
It amounts to just another “tiering” of society between the haves and have nots. I think we’ve had quite enough of that, TYVM.
March 14, 2014 at 10:15 pm #805595
wakefloodParticipantAnd just like that, on cue, here’s a quote from an article I just saw about new crackdowns on for-profit education abuses:
“Too many of these programs fail to provide students with the training they need, at taxpayer expense and at the cost of these student’s futures…”
And, “…although only about 13% of students attend these institutions, they account for nearly half of all student loan defaults.”
Just cuz you have a hammer doesn’t mean every problem is a nail.
March 14, 2014 at 10:29 pm #805596
skeeterParticipantApples and oranges Wakeflood.
The for-profit colleges are totally different than charter schools.
Currently a parent of a 4th grader has the following options:
1. Send kid to public school. Non profit.
2. Send kid to private school at parent’s expense. Probably non profit but without adequate oversight who knows.
3. Homeschool kid.
Effective with charter schools, there will be the following options:
1. Send kid to public school. Non profit.
2. Send kid to private school at parent’s expense. Probably non profit but without adequate oversight who knows.
3. Homeschool kid.
4. Send kid to charter school. Could be non profit. Could be for profit.
Wakeflood I’m not disagreeing that some or all charter schools will be for profit or function like a for profit. I’m sure Wall Street would love to get its paws in the very deep coffers. But I don’t care. If the principal of the charter school is making $2M per year and drives around the junction in a Jaguar convertible smoking a $60 cigar it’s fine with me. Every child enrolled in that school has a parent or guardian that has decided that the charter school is a better alternative than the public school or private school or homeschooling. So I simply don’t care where the money goes as long as the parent is happy.
The for-profit colleges are a totally different scenario. 19-year-old kids are taking out loans to attend a college that is not giving them useful skills. Maybe these schools are misleading students. Maybe not. Either way it’s just a totally different scenario. Sorry I could go on to better explain my point but I have to run.
March 14, 2014 at 10:34 pm #805597
skeeterParticipant“you can’t tell me that any chance the more well-off have to take taxes out of the big funding bucket and direct it to their own purposes, they won’t do just that. Consequently, less well to do who can’t afford to do the same will suffer over time. “
Yes, you are probably correct about that. Point taken.
Charter schools, school vouchers, etc are very, very imperfect solutions to a horribly vexing problem.
March 14, 2014 at 10:59 pm #805598
JoBParticipantskeeter..
“the quest for profit leads to competition and competition leads to better quality for the consumer”
i have been making consumer decisions for 50+ years
profits have risen
quality has fallen
is that what we want for our schools?
March 14, 2014 at 11:28 pm #805599
wakefloodParticipantNot sure that I’d call it horribly vexing, skeets. Clearly it’s going to be an imperfect system when taken as a whole but it doesn’t have to be perfect to be perfectly functional.
Finland, among others, has seemed to figure out functional public schooling. Around the US we tend to let our assumptions about what is possible or “OK” to get in the way of solutions.
As I said, no matter what side you come to this issue from you’re likely going to have to dispel yourself of some of your closely-held beliefs if you want to shake up the paradigm and make significant improvements. I just don’t think that the solution starts and stops with Charter or For Profit schools. (I’m not saying they have no place either, but to facilitate their existence and prosperity without spending commensurately more effort to fix the public school system is folly, IMHO. But Americans often fall for the easy sounding, short term fix so…)
March 14, 2014 at 11:51 pm #805600
skeeterParticipantI want our schools to have an incentive to excel.
The TV I bought last year is better than the TV I bought in 1995. The car I bought two years ago is better (safer, quieter, more efficient, etc.) than the car I bought in 1996. The computer I bought three years ago is better than the computer I bought in 1991. I credit the relentless drive for profit for all the improvements. We can thank Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and the entire country of Japan.
March 14, 2014 at 11:54 pm #805601
skeeterParticipantWF – it’s horribly vexing because student success, at least according to my parents, is 80% a function of parental involvement and 20% a function of schools and teachers. And I don’t know how to fix the 80%.
March 15, 2014 at 12:45 am #805602
wakefloodParticipantOh, well, that’s a related but distinct question, skeets. But having a society where 25% of kids live at the poverty line and are hungry is one place to look to improve.
That’s a ratio worthy of a third world country, not USA.
And before you go there, I agree that personal/parental responsibility is a component as well, and a substantial one at that.
But this comes from a kid who always had a full tummy and a decent roof over my head. My parents didn’t read to me, didn’t participate in my education per se, and I was only paying attention about 30% of the time in class, so I can’t point my finger at my parents necessarily for my relative success as a student. Maybe it was havimg the 1947 2nd hand edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica in the house? (Referring to the established correlation between books in the home and school success.)
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