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June 2, 2012 at 10:51 pm #603460
hooper1961Membermy health insurance is increasing 14% that is absurd. doctor’s order too many tests and people expect taxpayers to pay for expensive miracle cures when they do not pay for their own insurance.
essentially those of us purchasing insurance get screwed (via higher premiums) for people who choose not to buy it. if you don’t buy health insurance you don’t get care, period!
June 3, 2012 at 12:08 am #759775
JanSParticipantwhat doc’s order and what insurance costs are are two different things. Do you have something wrong with you that they are ordering so many tests? If not, then don’t do them…it’s your prerogative.
Again with this, go off and die , if you can’t afford insurance? You have been extremely lucky in life, Hooper…not everyone has that luck. Take care of yourself, and don’t be so damned concerned about what the other person is doing to supposedly screw you out of yours.
Insurance companies are in it for profit, nothing more…do you really think they have your best interests at heart? Laughable.
June 3, 2012 at 1:18 am #759776
SmittyParticipant“Insurance companies are in it for profit, nothing more…do you really think they have your best interests at heart? Laughable.”
Then start up an insurance company with lower profit margins than the rest.
You will be a freakin’ billionaire.
June 3, 2012 at 1:47 am #759777
miwsParticipant*Sigh* I was gonna stay out of this….
hoop, do you pay the absolute true, full cost, for driving down Admiral Way at 35-40 mph, or do taxpayers–even some that may not own a car—help to subsidize your little speed-fests?
Mike
June 3, 2012 at 2:37 am #759778
The Velvet BulldogParticipantHoop, I’m wondering if you’re differentiating between people who DON’T pay health insurance and those who CAN’T pay health insurance? Serious question.
As you may know, our friend and neighbor miws (right above here at this moment) had some health issues while in Nickelsville that HAD to be dealt with and he didn’t have insurance at the time. Are you willing/able to say to Mike, “You should have died?” Another serious question.
My personal health insurance is up to $350/month now and I’ve been unemployed for three years. I have to get help paying for it which is utterly embarrassing. If I weren’t receiving assistance, I probably wouldn’t be able to afford health insurance, and I don’t deserve to suffer or die.
And actually, when you think about it, there ARE lots of people who are suffering/dying because they don’t have health insurance. Some of those people are kids. You really don’t want them to receive care?
I agree there has GOT to be a solution to out-of-control medical costs, but a lot of smart people have been working on it for a long time and don’t seem to have come up with anything.
June 3, 2012 at 3:08 am #759779
JiggersMemberVelvet Bulldog…Nothing is embarrassing. You do what you have to do to survive. I’ve been homeless for several years now and was very ashamed about it for awhile. The economic downturn in 2008 had put me out into the streets. I lost my apartment. I am still basically homeless and don’t have my own roof over my head. I am not ashamed anymore. It’s reality. I have had Medicare/Medicaid for a couple decades now because I have had a bad immune system from the day I was born. I’m not proud, but who cares. I have never produced natural anti-bodies. If doctors say I need an X-ray, I need it. It is simple and it’s painless. If I need a cat-scan to confirm the X-ray’s findings, no biggie.. I’d rather have them be sure. There is no room for ignorance as a patient. You can always refuse, but you will never be able to get treated correctly. And they warned that insurance was going to go higher. It will cost you more later though if you don’t take care of those health issues in its early stages. Don’t vote a Republican in if you want affordable health care either. They are going to make it expensive as hell and try to rid of Medicaid all together if they get hold of office again. They don’t care about Main Street.
June 3, 2012 at 3:27 am #759780
miwsParticipanthoop, you seem to imply in these types of posts, that people are responsible for their own health issues.
So tell me; how the hell is Jiggers responsible for a condition that HE WAS BORN WITH, and, how am I responsible for the leukemia that I was diagnosed with nearly four years ago, THAT CAUSED ME TO LOSE MY JOB AND INSURANCE?
And to TVB’s point, how the eff is an unemployed person supposed to afford $350.00/mo?
I was offered COBRA, upon termination of my employment. If the idea of socking someone with no, or a very limited income wasn’t so pathetic, it would have almost been laughable…
Mike
June 3, 2012 at 3:59 am #759781
miwsParticipantY’know what, hoop?
Maybe you, Jan, JoB, Jiggers and I should meet up face to face.
Then, you can look each of us square in the eye, and tell why we deserve to basically roll over and die, because of conditions/illnesses fate dealt us, and had nothing to do with lifestyle choices.
Mike
June 3, 2012 at 5:01 am #759782
singularnameParticipantIf you think people are “lucky in life” because they have a house, a job, and health insurance, think the freak again! I’m working 60 to 80 hours a week three years into a five-year cancer sentence. And I was disgusted during my years of homelessness, with a toddler, then living in a motel, my car, and finally a crap room on Capitol Hill–disgusted to ask a woman with three kids about getting an apartment in her brandnew complex, with laundry, playground, and community, and discovering I wouldn’t qualify for the $115 a month rent since, you know, I was figuring out how to sell crap at the Fremont Market to pay my bills while living in the 1920s “charmer room” with cockroaches and no heat.
Folks need to really–REALLY–get out of any comfort zone to overcome truly miserable times in their lives. You need to start hustling, if not with your body then with your mind, and if on the Internet then not every day on a forum, and start helping yourselves instead of holding your breath for laws and other crap to save you and then moaning then being so self-righteous and dramatic on here about it when it doesn’t come your way.
And I hope with all your “health care-or-die” conditions, you HAVE taken the time to seriously contemplate your impending death, whether sooner or later. I have. And I figured out I’m not an iota more special than the billions who’ve gone before me.
June 3, 2012 at 6:30 am #759783
JanSParticipantsingularname…I was speaking specifically about dear Mr. Hooper…I was addressing him and his post.
June 3, 2012 at 6:37 am #759784
JanSParticipantAnd, singular…for what it’s worth…in the last 7 years I have overcome cancer, with 6 months of chemo, two hip replacements, about 15 other surgeries, was diagnosed with a rare autoimmune that caused my kidneys to fail within months – will hopefully get a transplant in the next few months (and have to take three months or so off work totally). And I kept working the whole time…yes, self employed, massage therapist, physical work (I was back at work 3 weeks after hip replacement – I figured if I could stand up, I could work). I was exhausted, had severe anemia..still am, still do. I still work as much as I can…plus spending approx 18 hours a week at dialysis. Please do not assume that I am not trying to help myself. Please do not dump on us who are trying damned hard to make it however we can, short of robbing a bank.
You don’t know me, or miws, or TVB…you have no idea what we do or don’t do.
It is what it is…I think maybe you need to be a little kinder..
June 3, 2012 at 8:18 am #759785
kootchmanMemberYea no one else has ups or downs. we can’t afford Medicare.. if the truth were told. I imagine that in short order, I will get the dreaded news … I too am not immortal. How much after that dreaded news do I expect to burden the rest of my fellow travelers? 50, 100, 200 500K or more? There are limits coming..I am betting that we will all max out at 150K after age 55 and then the state will have done a good portion assistance. it will be like SS… you are going to get capped coverage… because we have no choice. we can;t inflict hundreds of thousands of medical expenses per person on a younger generation who are struggling. to even emerge as an economic enitity… here is the status of an Illinois college grad… 40K state budget deficit, average college loan, 30K, average federal debt..12,000 per head of household… and then take 1/3 of all their wages and income in all the other government taxes. You are not going to live forever… no matter what the federal government does. Don’r vote a republican in?… have you been asleep under a hay stack… insurance rates are rocketing under the threat of Obamacare.
June 3, 2012 at 2:27 pm #759786
JiggersMembermiws…..I do have DNR signed by the way because I would not be functional after I get my first heart attack. I’ll save the tax payers money there. I most likely I would be bed ridden and I am not even fifty yet. I watched my dad die two years ago. He was bed ridden the last 8 months of his life. Horrible way to go when you can’t do a thing. It is my choice to not be revivied. My lungs are weakening my heart, but it maybe awhile before a heart attack happens. I’m taking another TEST. It is a heart stress test to see how strong my heart is since I can’t get proper blood and air flow in now due to the hole in my lungs that is unrepairable. I now have to drag an oxygen tank with me. Try live on the streets like that. I never smoked either and smokers drive up insurance rates as you know. I’m actully lucky to be covered right now with Medicare and Medicaid. It will be scary if a Republican is voted into office in November for lazy azzes like me who can’t work a full time job because I deal with and chronic breathing problems which is my newest problem now. If the Republicans do take office and you do get sick after with basic coverage, you better hope you die fast. I love it when idiots say oh.. you choose to live that way. Get the f out of my face you dumb ignorant uneducated moron!
June 3, 2012 at 3:09 pm #759787
JoBParticipantsingularname…
the idea that one can get out and hustle their way out of medical conditions is antiquated to say the least.
the idea that every medical condition can be medicated into submission and every patient returned to the work force is equally antiquated.
and yes, those of us who have been diagnosed with fatal conditions do think about and plan for our deaths.
More than that, we think about and plan for the day when we will no longer be functional enough to participate in our own lives.
and wonder how on earth we are going to manage on social security since most of us waited till the last opportunity to apply and receive less than a thousand a month in spite of a lifetime of successful work.
which leads us right down the primrose path to the current conditions driving more Americans than ever before into abject poverty.
June 3, 2012 at 3:12 pm #759788
JoBParticipantkootch..
we can’t afford not to provide medicare..
it prevents taxpayers from paying for uncovered medical costs in the most expensive way possible..
though hospital emergency rooms…
btw.. we can’t afford not to pay social security or to provide subsidized housing either for very similar reasons..
You pass cruelty off as financial necessity without looking at the increased costs of not providing services…
not nice
June 3, 2012 at 3:24 pm #759789
miwsParticipantJiggers, I definitely understand your situation. It’s too bad that others don’t, or just don’t care. I feel fortunate, that my conditions, can be controlled, to a certain extent, with meds, and that as long as I am able to keep getting them, that I don’t have to worry quite as much, that I may only have a few more short years to live.
Mike
June 3, 2012 at 3:24 pm #759790
miwsParticipantJoB, Thanks for yet again weighing in as the voice of reason.
As usual, you were able to say it much more eloquently.
And to expand on one of your points; since I had lost my insurance, and then eventually my income when my unemployment ran out, I was unable to keep getting the meds that were keeping my asthma, COPD, A-Fib, and Congestive Heart Failure in check.
Mike
June 3, 2012 at 4:28 pm #759791
EscondidoMemberWow. Fascinating discussion. And, a very complex issue.
From an economic point of view, I believe the main reason for higher costs is the ability of companies to demand unreasonable prices. I have read that pharmaceutical companies have markups ranging from 200% to 30,000%. Yes, 30,000%. Then, some counter that this pays for research and development. I’m not buying that argument. To some degree, perhaps, but come on !!! My child’s drug costs $18,000 per year. Do I feel guilty every time I refill that drug? Yup. Is the situation beyond my control? Yup. Am I disgusted with the pharmaceutical companies. Oh yes. Are their shareholders happy ducks? Yup. Compound just this with hospitals that are “for profit”. Not a good idea; the result being intense competition that drives up costs as well as having to keep the shareholders happy. Imho, it should be a non-profit industry in general, but our society is not mature enough to handle that concept and follow it through.
From a philosophical point of view, I am astounded when I hear the thought that it is each man for himself. Either you ‘pay the toll’ or you are out of the race. Jeez. Every major religion states in one way or another we must look out for one another. Do some take advantage of others? Sure. But overall we can’t turn our backs on each other. We will always have our poor. We will always have those that are unable to make good choices and get themselves into bad situations. We will always have those that come down with catastrophic or chronic illnesses. This is the nature of life.
The question is, are we going to be smart enough to figure out a way to take care of ourselves, and others that need our help, or are we going to say ‘I did it and you better do it too’, and not acknowledge that our good fortune may have played a part in our success? (ie: born with high I.Q, and E.Q., excellent executive management skills, trust fund, good health…… )
June 3, 2012 at 6:28 pm #759792
miwsParticipantEscondido, you make some very thoughtful and valid points. Thank you.
$18,000.00/yr for your child’s med is utterly ridiculous. That’s $1,500.00/mo, which is more than many hardworking people earn.
Mike
June 3, 2012 at 6:45 pm #759793
EscondidoMemberThanks, Mike. We are all in this together and all connected.
June 3, 2012 at 7:40 pm #759794
kootchmanMemberJoB…. as it so happens, as inefficient as it is… emergency room health care is cheaper than Obama care. Schools are doubling their healthcare insurance costs.. because of Obamacare mandates. We used to have a robust and very extensive not for profit system… what killed them off? TRIAL LAWYERS… they were under insured and couldn’t withstand the litigations without the hundreds of billions in insurance and reserves to pay…. so they sold off the facilities to for profit centers.. who charge accordingly. The largest not for profit may exit … because of Obamacare… the Catholic church will not pay for birth control or RU 238…. they will close the doors first. Good move!!!!
June 3, 2012 at 7:55 pm #759795
kootchmanMemberI dunno about Big Pharma….. there are some solutions. One, if any Pharma sells a drug cheaper in a foreign market… (developed country, not subsidized third world countries) we can very easily cut their patent protection times….or, if they control costs, and say don’t raise prices over 5% per year… extend their patents. Some companies just stop making lesser profitable drugs… we could also start allowing imports of European and Canadian wholesalers … and stop protecting the markets for big pharma.
We are dangerously short of some orphan drugs… because the volume doesn’t support their production, or they have patent protected substitutes.
Better to pay 18K than not to have it available ….
Shortages of critical drugs are occurring so often that the U.S. Food and Drug Administration has created a website with a long list of reasons why drugmakers cannot deliver the lifesaving medicines that used to be readily available.
“I would call it an impending crisis,” said James J. Augustine, director of clinical operations for Emergency Medical Physicians, a national group that helps hospitals find ER physicians and services.
Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/02/24/3761507/drugs-for-emergencies-are-in-critical.html#storylink=cpy
June 3, 2012 at 8:12 pm #759796
dhgParticipantKootch: trial lawyers???? that old canard doesn’t sing anymore, Kootch. And your link to an article on shortages of critical drugs suggests that they are not made because the profits are too thin. Kinda like the bankers that don’t see any reason to invest in homes at a 5% return. Why 5% when they can get 100% in the stock market (and bailed out when it fizzles). Big Pharma is making REAL money now, they don’t have time for the little stuff.
We’d have tons of money for medicare, medicaid if we: stopped empire building, cut military spending, imposed a tax rate as it stood in 1973, demanded the government negotiate lower prices with big pharma……but that would go against all the big money the Repubs have collected to do just the opposite.
Oh, and, Solyndra, Kootch. You forgot Solyndra. The “liberal media” CBS reporter Jan Crawford asked Mitt if he thought Obama was corrupt because the backers of Solyndra gave Obama money. What a hoot. Nothing is more corrupt than the current batch of Repubs who call everyone who’s filthy rich a “job creator”.
June 3, 2012 at 9:44 pm #759797
miwsParticipantSome companies just stop making lesser profitable drugs…
Precisely why healthcare and pharma should be not for profit.
Better to pay 18K than not to have it available ….
kootch, that comment, IMHO, is an insult to Escondido….
Mike
June 3, 2012 at 10:39 pm #759798
JoBParticipantkootch..
“as it so happens, as inefficient as it is… emergency room health care is cheaper than Obama care.”
this is a crock!
there is no more expensive way to deliver health care than through emergency rooms.
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