Does COSTCO even care about the Safety of its members-customers?

[mav0414]

Sure inside the stores but what about on the premises; parking lot, gas station area etc?

I was a victim of an assault Sunday afternoon at the Seattle 4th avenue COSTCO store. Posted an earlier blog about the incident and Seattle Police case number, Officers contact phone # too.

I sent an email to COSTCO corporate about the situation. Specifically how the employees in the area of the assault (gas station area) could have reacted much better by contacting security and certainly calling 911 when they witnessed the assault. My assailant grabbed my cell phone away as I was trying to call 911 and tossed it, out of my reach. People witnessing the crime mostly got the heck out of there ASAP. I’m lucky to not be seriously hurt.

Corporate COSTCO’s response to email: NONE!!!!!!!!!

Lack of security cameras, untrained staff-employees for such an emergency. And comments from store management staff such as:

FRont end manager: “what happens in the parking lot is considered a civil matter and Costco cannot get involved”

Security Mgr: “you have to call the police. It happened in the parking area and we consider this not our responsibility”

WOW, as a business owner and HR trained, I am SHOCKED!

Maybe I should get an attorney.

Below an excerpt of the assault incident, given to Seattle Police:

I was assaulted this afternoon while waiting in a gas line at the Seattle 4th avenue COSTCO store, very right hand pump lane, approx 2:00-2:10 pm, Sunday, Nov 15.

On the way home from a morning trip, I dropped by COSTO for gas and dog food etc. Waiting for an available gas pump, all of a sudden my truck driver’s door jerks open violently. In leans this big fella; 28-34 years old, 6-3+, 230lbs+, Caucasion, short dark hair, clean cut, wearing blue jeans, tennis shoes and Seahawk jersey and cap….and grabs me trying to jerk me outta my Toyota Tundra-white. But the seat belt grabs and HE is unable to pull me out to “teach me something I’ll never F___ forget…”. I had no exit, no chance to flee or drive off to remove myself from the area. My vehicle was boxed in front and rear by other cars. The now opened driver’s door was blocked by the big guy standing there, now I’m fending off his assault and my mind starts considering alternatives…to save MY LIFE or from serious Body harm.

Unbelievably, I stay relatively calm and ask him to exit my vehicle space and let go of me. Now HE clenches his fists and readies to slam one into my face. I pull back and say: “see that hunting gear behind my seat, If you hit me I WILL SHOOT YOU. HE looks and sees the camo and asst hunting gear, camo backpack etc behind the seat. Then HE pulls away and steps back, proceeds to turn his Seahawk hat around so the cap’s bill is in the back and makes fists and starts coming again. Now I pull the cell phone and dial 911. HE says fine call the cops it will be too late and proceeds to rip my cell phone out of my hands and toss it into the passenger side feet well (I later find my cell phone under the truck’s passenger seat). Being seatbelted in, I cannot reach the phone. HE misses with the first punch as I leaned over attempting to reach my cell phone. NOW I reach behind my drivers seat. LOUD CLICK, I un-snap the SOC knife attached to my backpack. HE immediately backs off, out of my drivers space when HE hears the click!

I never show him the 6″ SOG blade in my hand, still hidden behind my center console-rear seat area. My vision focused on his neck and ready to react if necessary.

I still don’t know HOW in the world I stayed so CALM!

HE yells profanity about almost hitting his pregnant wife in the COSTCO parking lot crosswalk. No such thing occurred. HIS Wife/SHE then admitted to the gas attendant that my wheels spun a little bit and it startled her. Being ready to deliver in 2 weeks, HE got upset. UPset enough to walk the 2/10 of a mile through the COSTCO parking lot from the parking lot intersection/stop signed area to my truck, where I was waiting for an available pump. The pregnant WIFE pulled him away to walk away, she probaly heard my bluff about shooting him if HE didn’t stop. I never saw him coming but that door jerking open and getting grabbed sure scared the hell outta me. For a brief moment, I thought of being car jacked.

Apparently what set HIM off was My wheels spun in my avoiding a car turning left while I had nearly completed my right turn. The driver of that call, a young girl, was not paying attention due to being on her cell phone. She almost hit my drivers side, rear panel of the truck. She did wave sorry to me later when she was in a gas line 2 lanes away. Being wet pavement and my pick up bed was unloaded. My trucks pickup bed was very light due to unloading a payload the day before and I hadn’t let the additional air suspension/spring support down to normal yet. The spinning wheel, very very brief, startled his wife standing on the sidewalk, clear of the parking area cross walk. I knew not of this startling and there was no intent on my part to do so and no exchanges whatsoever with HIM prior to him violently jerking my door open. When his wife led him away toward the store’s entrance, the gas attendant checked if I was ok,,,she was nice but the look on her face was concerned & scared too.

I put the SOG knife back in its scabbard, settled my nerves and drove home, doing so in shock. But later, 45 min later, I went back to the Costco store to file a report and to file a police report, receiving a case number.

so I spent over 2+ hours in the COSTCO managers office, giving statements to COSTCO Management & Security and the later arriving Seattle Police officer about the assualt. The COSTCO gas attendant left her statement & eye witness report with the police too.

If my assailant is arrested, COSTCO will press charges for tresspass and malicious assault of a customer. I will be pressing charges for his assault. My left shoulder has sharp pain from HIM trying to jerk me outta the truck. Lucky I had my seat belt on, I think it saved me from a severe beating by keeping me in my seat. I sure hope they arrest this big fella soon.

If anyone here witnessed this incident please call SPD officer T. Saewong #6957 as your witness, case #2009-399257, phone# 206-386-1850

Several people/COSTCO gas customers came up to me later asking if I was ok. They thought HE knew me by him coming up and opening my truck door. But a couple saw the violent opening of the door and the look on my face as HE attempted to extract me from my truck. Everyone soon realized this was a serious incident occuring. Seveal people jumped in their cars and just drove off. I’m lucky the seat belt stopped me because I doubt anyone would have come to my aid as my head was getting kicked in.

so, Does COSTCO care about the safety of their members-Customers?

apparently by their lack or response to my incident, I say not.

Share This

[PlaneGuy]

*yawn*

Rant elsewhere.

Share This

[WSB]

Mav, it’s only Wednesday morning. If you e-mailed Sunday afternoon it may be taking a while to get up the chain. With something so urgent, I wouldn’t rely on e-mail, I’d call (and I don’t say that lightly – I rely on e-mail and other online communication means for 95% of what’s not done F2F). The various corporate #’s are here:

https://www.costco.com/Service/FeaturePageLeftNav.aspx?ProductNo=10045080

and you certainly can continue demanding to speak to people further on up the line from whomever originally answers the phone.

Share This

[dawsonct]

Jeez Mav, that really sucks. I wonder what the legal responsibility IS for businesses’ parking lots. Of course, since you were actually sitting at the gas station, it would seem that would be one of the areas where they would have some sort of security. I wouldn’t expect one of the very few attendants to intervene in any altercation, but store security ought to be near enough to resolve any situations. I would agree that Costco dropped the ball on this one.

–

In another area of concern, I hope the big, tough future father takes some classes in anger management and conflict resolution so he doesn’t pass his emotional issues on to his offspring.

Share This

[bfranklin4206]

perhaps you should of been less passive and try to fight back! costco is awesome

Share This

[Lucian]

When Machismo’s Collide

“I pull back and say: “see that hunting gear behind my seat, If you hit me I WILL SHOOT YOU.”

“I never show him the 6″ SOG blade in my hand, still hidden behind my center console-rear seat area. My vision focused on his neck and ready to react if necessary.”

Jeez.. maybe just a little disproportionate in your reaction plan?

No justifying what your assailant did but..

I got a feeling we’ll be reading about you in the SPD blotter.

Share This

[OlMom]

What is it that you want from Costco? What would make you happy in this situation? You suggest retaining an attorney so that leads me to think that you want to be compensated financially. Perhaps I am off-base.

Share This

[JanS]

Lucian…I look at it this way. The guy who decided to fly off the handle was 6’2″ and about 230. The driver of the truck was seatbelted in, and probably not as big. If you had been the driver of the truck being yanked out of your car, attacked, as it were, but seat belt impeded, what would you have done? What would you have this man do? You can’t get the door shut because of the big dude…so you just sit and take it? or do you consider the options you have in defending yourself? I’m just curious what you think was an overreaction here on the truck occupant’s part.

Share This

[JoB]

driver seated.. with full use of his legs..

assailant standing.. easily knocked down..

swing to face assilant

shove

slam door

lock doors

lay on the horn

assailant generally goes away..

and if not everyone in the lot knows it isn’t a personal dispute and someone calls the cops…

if you do all that before you threaten to use your phone, you can call 911 yourself and don’t have to worry about what other people do.

I am a 5’6″ female with disabilities.. and i can do this.

I have.

BTW.. had the OP dialed 911, the operator should have heard the altercation from the floorboards of the truck and alerted a patrol car.. if for no other reason than the OPs threats to the assailant.

I will be more careful in Costco from now on…

but i already lock my doors…

if the car hasn’t already done so for me.

somehow i think we haven’t heard the entire story.

Share This

[JustSarah]

Adding to lowmanbeach’s response: there’s a good chance the letter has reached the appropriate people/person, but I am sure they are being very careful in how they word a response, and may not respond at all until they’ve had opportunity to review any video and/or consult further with their legal team. They can’t just send you a letter stating how very sorry they are, or anything else that implies Costco can be held legally responsible for this incident.

Share This

[maplesyrup]

I’ll bet Safeway pays for a security guard to patrol their parking lot in case a lying pregnant lady gets her already angry husband riled up.

Oh wait…they don’t?

Then they must not care about the safety of their customers!

Share This

[shihtzu]

Don’t see how any of this is Costco’s fault or business. I guess an attendant could have called 911, but perhaps they were flustered.

It was an unfortunate incident that could have happened anywhere.

Hope they catch the guy.

Share This

[acemotel]

Agree w shihtzu. It’s a bad thing that happened, but it’s not Costco’s fault. What if it happened on the street, is it the city’s fault? If it happened in front of my house, would I be responsible? Criminey!!! Even Seattle police is not omnipresent in the city – they cannot prevent all crime from happening, obviously. Casting about for someone to sue is disgusting!!!

Share This

[me on 28th Ave SW]

How is this assault any different than if it happened waiting in line to pay at the Costco Food Court? I certainly do not think it is Costco’s responsibility THAT it happened, but I witnessed an altercation in the food court and there were Costco managers and staff members there in less than a minute to diffuse the situation. I am surprised that the Gas Station attendant did not call a manager in the store (maybe she did?); not that they could have STOPPED it as it was happening, but certainly they could have assisted in detaining or at least identifying the assailant. It sounds like the angry husband and pregnant wife walked back into the Costco store, certainly some staff member would have noticed them? If it had been me getting attacked I probably would have been so shocked I would have been beaten silly before I could fight back while strapped into my car. My opinion is just that, mine, and certainly may be the minority but what disgusts me about this situation is that NOBODY INTERVENED or called the cops themselves to help out a fellow citizen.

Share This

[JoB]

I wouldn’t intervene to help a fellow citizen if i heard him tell his assailant that he had a gun..

and not because i am anti-gun…

because i am a cautious woman and wouldn’t want to accidentally get shot with that gun

Share This

[mav0414]

OMG, settle down people.

Especially those who have never been victimized by serious crime, those never facing a similar situation where you question in a moment your life and well being. And btw: good thing 20 years ago I completed a self defense class to go along with my CCW permit (concealed weapons permit). that training came to mind very fast during this incident.

I have heard about many incidents on Costco store properties, across the USA. I’d rather the Costco Corporation spend some profit on bringing their security measures up to speed and improve or seek advancements in high tech surveillance for simply the safety and protection of those normal & civil people that their store’s marketing attracts.

beware: there are lots of nutso people out there and this economy certainly doesn’t help.

some say: “its better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6…”.

but it appears those 12 better not be the “fine”, educated citizens from Seattle.

Share This

[acemotel]

As a mattra fact, I have been a victim of violent crime, and quite a bit more serious than your vehicle incident. I still think it’s pathetic to cast the blame on Costco. Your anger should be directed at the person who attacked you, not at Costco. IT almost sounds like a setup.

Share This

[JoB]

mav0414

I too have been the victim of violent crime…

i was lucky to escape with my life.

that’s why i know that escalating threats can be lethal.

Fear erodes judgment.. and that is no time to be a bystander when someone has a gun in their hand.

Share This

[mav0414]

heck, I love shopping at Costco. But I’ve been thru some ups & downs lately, including shock, disorientation and anger from the unexpected assault put upon me by a complete stranger. Searching for answers had I been justified to use “reasonable force” for self defense, an experienced blogger on another site offered this explanation-example from the facts of this incident, at the time the door opens….

From the Revised Code of Washington:

RCW 9A.16.050

Homicide — By other person — When justifiable.

Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

(1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

(2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he is.

To follow up on example A comments, there has to be the “ability” and the “opportunity” for the suspect to carry out the threat, for the defense to be reasonable. For instance, if a man is holding a large knife in his hand and staring right through you with his look of evil as he screams, “I’m gonna stab you through the heart and kill you!” You clearly have a serious threat of death or great bodily harm, however, if that guy is standing up on an elevated deck and you’re 30 ft below him in a parking lot, he clearly doesn’t have the opportunity to carry that threat out, therefore it would not be reasonable to shoot him at that moment unless the circumstances changed.

Also for those that think it is unjustifiable to use deadly force on a person that is “unarmed”, think again. There have been several instances locally where both Police and civilians have been justified in the application of deadly force on individuals that were known or believed to be unarmed at the time of the incident. The justification comes from the totality of the circumstances, not just one issue. The size of the suspect vs. the shooter, the lower levels of force that were used in an attempt to end the situation that were ineffective, the behavior of the suspect (acting crazy, seemingly oblivious to pain, the apparent influence of drugs or alcohol etc, etc). Lastly, the perceptions of the shooter at the time the decision was made to fire. Obviously those perceptions must be viewed as “reasonable” which can be highly subjective. Reasonable basically means (for a citizen), would the “average citizen” in the same circumstances perceive the same threat and act in a similar way. Additionally, for a Police Officer, would the “average Officer” in the same circumstances perceive the same threat and act in a similar way. Here are a few instances when Officers shot unarmed suspects and were justified based on the totality of the circumstances.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004093946_copshooting27m.html

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19961117&slug=2360213

In the case at Costco, you have a MAV who is suddenly attacked without warning, or expectation by a large-“huge” adult male who has, without any known provocation, ripped open the driver’s door, reached into the cab, grabbed a hold of MAV and attempted to physically pull him from the truck.

Stop right there.

In this 1.2 millisecond, MAV has gone from looking for his debit card in his wallet and wondering what he’s gonna eat for lunch, to…Holy shit! Who is this guy? What is happening? Why is this happening? What does he want? My money? My truck? My life? Is this guy armed? Is this guy high?

All that happens in the blink of an eye. Has MAV perceived an IMMEDIATE THREAT to himself?? Hell yes. His body is dumping adrenaline into his system while his mind is going into high gear trying to process the threat. MAV doesn’t have the luxury everyone else on this thread has had, when reading all the details of the story that unfolded AFTER this moment. At this point, he has no idea about the pregnant wife, the spinning tire scare, the pissed-off protective husband, so none of that plays into his mindset at this point.

MAV is dealing with the here and now. The very real threat that is unfolding in his lap, while his brain tries to fill in the gaps and his body begins to ready for survival. Sound over dramatic? Then you haven’t been there.

MAV is trapped. His vehicle is boxed in. The keys may or may not have still been in the ignition, the truck may or may not have been on. The seatbelt has him stuck to his seat preventing his escape and limiting his defense options. Remember that, part of the formula for whether or not the force used was “reasonable” was that other options were not available or had been used and were unsuccessful.

He can’t run. He can’t drive away. He can’t get out of his seat (remember the suspect pulled on the seatbelt and jammed it). The suspect is large, violent, in a tactically advantageous position over MAV and MAV’s defense options are extremely limited.

MAV tells the suspect to back away and gives a verbal warning that deadly force may be used on the suspect if doesn’t stop his attack.

From MAV: “Then HE pulls away and steps back, proceeds to turn his Seahawk hat around so the cap’s bill is in the back and makes fists and starts coming again.”

If that’s stopping his attack in your book, then you and I have different books.

In the midst of this, MAV had the clarity of mind to use one of last dwindling options and use his cell phone to call 911 from where he sat helplessly. That’s reasonable. That’s doing everything you can to AVOID having to use force, when considering the few remaining options he has at this point in a very fluid and dynamic situation.

The suspect’s response to this is to grab the phone and throw it so MAV cannot use it. That option just went out the window now. By who? The suspect.

Now with no ability to call for help and no one around him running up to get involved, MAVsled is down to one or two options. He still has no idea who this guy is, why he is attacking him, and despite the fact that MAV had given him warning that he would shoot him if he didn’t stop, the suspect has refused to back down.

In fact, HE tells MAV to go ahead and call the cops because, “it will be too late”. TOO LATE?? Sorry folks, but this just confirms that this unpredictable, violent suspect has the intent to do MAV harm. Serious harm. And if you don’t feel that this justifies having a reasonable fear of imminent threat of death or great bodily harm at that moment by a person that has the ability and the opportunity as well as the clear intent, I don’t know what to tell you.

But it didn’t just stop there. As MAV makes an attempt to reach his cell phone on the floor, the suspect attacks. He didn’t just stand there with his fists clenched, he swung at MAV and attempted to punch him in the head, but missed. MAV had to make his own personal decision at that moment. One that he alone could make in that flash of mere seconds.

If you think you want to risk your life on predicting the outcome of the that volatile and unpredictable situation and convince yourself this is just a fist-fight or this guy is just a hot-head blowing off steam, or whatever scenario you come up with, fine. But many people, including cops, have under-reacted in a situation that thought they had under control or that they were not justified in shooting ‘cause no “weapons” were seen, and they have paid the ultimate price with their lives. You can quickly get in way over your head, before you have any idea that the person attacking you has murderous intent and it’s too late.

Be prepared to be aggressive enough, quickly enough.

MAV, I’m not telling you what you SHOULD have done. I was not there. I personally have had to use deadly force in defense of myself and others on two separate occasions. Thankfully, I survived both physically and legally in those circumstances. Others have told you what they WOULD have done. Fine. Your question was, “In your opinion, would this have been self defense?”

My answer is yes.

Share This

[kg]

How do expect a COSTCO employee to help you? To run to your aid and tackle the guy? Google the Best Buy guys who tackled a shoplifter who tried to exit the store, they got fired. I am sure COSTCO has a similar policy.

Share This

[mav0414]

how about just call store security and observe? Observe the Costco employee did, thankfully, but better TRAINING to alert higher store authority immediately. the store manager & security mgr were the ones that I was impressed with in assisting me in handling what i’d been thru. Kudos to both of those professional women.

Share This

[mav0414]

and to the poster who deleted their supposedly witness to the event: the pregnant wife didn’t “save me from her huge husband” but she saved the father of her soon to be born child. Because if he came at me a 3rd time after being warned-bluffed etc, I had exhausted available options of deterrent or diffusing the situation….AND I WAS PREPARED TO DO WHAT I DEEMED WAS MY ONLY OPTION LEFT as I now considered; “I was scared for my LIFE your Honor”.

Share This

[JoB]

mav0414

you may feel that the law is on your side threatening to pull a gun when you were assaulted…

but tell me, how would you have felt if you hit someone other than the assailant in the Costco parking lot.. someone you hadn’t even seen?

what if that someone had been the man’s pregnant wife who was trying to pull him away from your car?

what if that someone had been some poor fool who felt compelled to help you?

how do you think the family of that person would have felt about you exercising your right to bear arms?

fear + guns + bad judgment = death

but not necessarily that of the assailant.

Share This

[maplesyrup]

That’s why you stab the assailant instead.

Share This

[KBear]

Or just post several rambling manifestoes on the West Seattle Blog.

Share This

[Author]

Posts