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October 7, 2011 at 3:28 am #600815
kootchmanMemberGot a friend in the business…. he use two Catahoulas as the find dogs… and four American Bulldogs. He has cleaned out lots of neighborhoods back in NY and New England. The coyotes are bigger cause they cross bred with wolves..The “hoolas” do the finding and Bullies… well, they finish the job. Get a neighborhood group together… he charges $1500 per head. Good for cities who won’t allow shooting in city limits.
October 7, 2011 at 4:10 am #736529
mehud7ParticipantJust sickening
October 7, 2011 at 4:27 am #736530
hammerheadParticipantSo basically it is a really expensive dog fight with really expensive purebred dogs. Oh well that is really good, for the American Bulldog as if we don’t have enough issues with that type of breed looking bad.
FYI dog fights are illegal in Washington.
Ya know Koothman I usually like what you have to say. I also know coyotes kill cats, but that is the humans problem NOT the coyotes.
This is just really uncalled for, and if you did it just to make some noise well you did.
October 7, 2011 at 4:44 am #736531
chrismaParticipantOctober 7, 2011 at 4:50 am #736532
miwsParticipantOctober 7, 2011 at 8:24 am #736533
kootchmanMemberAs per the city who says they won’t do anything… they are not dogs. They are “wildlife” The state uses Karelian bear dogs, and dogs are permitted for couger hunting by permit. police departments use dogs on humans? Jeesh get a grip. Before a child is attacked.. or before we start having poison baits set out which are indiscriminate killers..a trained, species specific catch dog team seems ok to me. You are a hoot … your little tabbys are the largest source of native resident and migratory bird predation… their take in Seattle is in the tons… no one has yet to tame the prey instinct of felines…hmmm never mind…I was mistaken. wait til one grabs a Poopsieloopsie..or a child on the playground.
October 7, 2011 at 8:52 am #736534
kootchmanMemberOnce the population expands… they will pack up and hunt cooperatively..they don’t in the wild because wolves will not tolerate the density and kill them..no wolves and they will pack and hunt in daylight…. the city is wrong as hell… the coyote is adaptive and does not remain “unafraid” of humans… quite the opposite. They should be ashamed of themselves to print that. This from the state of CA… the sequence of when coyotes become an increasing threat. Note CA says..active control keeps them wary and shy… exactly what Seattle says it won’t do… Ditto Scottsdale AZ and Manatee County FL. As you go down the list.. see the trend? We are now at level 6 ….
This is from UC Davis, Para: Recognizing Problem Coyote
behavior TABLE1
call it a threat hirarchy….in ascending order. Coyotes are no longer a rare thing of nature. When ya take the kibbles and bits off the porch… the easy food sources… they HUNT for their protein… wait until this spring when they are whelping pups. See how bold they get… and the city says “yell at them”?
1 Increase in coyotes on streets and in yards at night
2 Increase in coyotes approaching adults and/or taking pets at night
3 Coyotes on streets, and in parks and yards, in early morning/late afternoon
4 Coyotes chasing or taking pets in daytime
5 Coyotes attacking and taking pets on leash or near owners; chasing joggers, bicyclists, other adults
6 Coyotes seen in and around children’s play areas, school grounds, and parks in midday
7 Coyotes acting aggressively toward adults in midday
October 7, 2011 at 1:51 pm #736535
GenHillOneParticipantThere’s just a lot of wrong up there, Kootchman.
October 7, 2011 at 2:01 pm #736536
sydneyMemberActually for once Kootchman is right!
October 7, 2011 at 2:18 pm #736537
velo_nutParticipantNothing a bowl of Anti-freeze won’t take care of… rogue neighbor cats, raccoons, Coyotes and the occasional Kujo.
.
Oh, and by the way, Coyote tastes nothing like chicken.
October 7, 2011 at 2:18 pm #736538
JoBParticipantsydney…
kootch may be right about the current policy towards coyotes being doomed to failure…
though using cities in California to prove that hypothesis may be another apples to oranges scenario
;-> agricultural pun intended ;->
since very few urban areas in California have the extensive green spaces that we have here…
and when they do they tend to be the more well tended variety as opposed to the natural growth variety.
but his proposal to import dog packs …
not such a good idea.
there is nothing to stop hunting dog packs from doing what hunting dog packs do…
the little known and well kept secret is that even well trained hunting dog packs are known to corner and kill unintended prey…
October 7, 2011 at 2:23 pm #736539
hammerheadParticipantok facts facts facts:
So we have Nicklesville with over 100 people and lots of other homeless people up in the green belt. Coyotes live up there too and I have never heard anything about coyotes going after any of the humans, not to say that can’t happen.
Just as we will NEVER eradicate feral cats and again blame the humans on their outdoor cats for disappearing. We will NEVER eradicate coyotes.
If someone really wants to blow $1500.00 to kill a few coyotes great let them. Hell I can think of a homeless camp that could really use that kind of money right now.
As for the police using dogs on humans um the humans were probably doing something illegal. Coyotes aren’t, they are just living here as they have for centuries.
October 7, 2011 at 2:55 pm #736540
sydneyMemberAre coyotes forest animals now?
October 7, 2011 at 3:01 pm #736541
JoBParticipantsydeny..
coyotes are as much forest animals as they are urban dwellers.
our green spaces provide plenty of cover for coyote dens…
oh.. and they include more than a meadow or two..
well tended or not.
October 7, 2011 at 3:40 pm #736542
sydneyMemberWell as much as I love animals, I know Coyote has kind of run the red fox out of town (by eating her) a testament to his relative newcomer status.
October 7, 2011 at 3:57 pm #736543
funkietooParticipantHow about implementing a more humane approach? Trap-Neuter-Return-Ear Tip the coyotes. Once the 70% level of neutering is reached, the population growth stabilizes. Any neutering/spaying over the 70% mark results in the decrease of the population over time. The more we neuter over 70%, the quicker the decrease.
If coyotes are removed and killed, the remaining coyotes will increase breeding activity, and quickly refill the ‘missing’ coyotes slots. The killing method is not only inhumane, it is a short-term ‘fix’.
In regards to the statement, ‘your little tabbies are the largest source of native resident and migratory bird predation’. Actually…we humans are the major source of bird predation. We just don’t call it that…we call it ‘property rights’, job creation, etc. The pesticides and herbicides we use; development of green spaces to buildings (very negative effect on migratory birds/no place to rest); pollution of water sources, etc. All of this activity kills birds…picture in your mind…birds flying into tall buildings. That being said, my cats are indoor/secured outdoor enclosure only…for many reasons.
October 7, 2011 at 5:02 pm #736544
kootchmanMemberWhat California UC Davis said was… to keep coyotes “afraid” so they are not adaptive, use active control. Coyotes are skittish, shy, when they are prey, when gray wolves were reintroduced in Yellowstone,,the coyote population crashed to a more natural state.. estimated to be only 30 per cent of the pre-introduction population. When they are the top predator..they act like one. The get bolder. They attack instead of scavanging…Neuter em’? Fine.. the city won’t do it. BTY… if they don’t have an adequete breeding population…they will breed with feral dogs. When wolves were hunted almost to extinction, they bred with coyotes in the NE … the result was… a larger coyote with canines 30 per cent larger … and they have killed adult humans. Worse, is they breed with domestic dogs..
Quote:
Coyotes will sometimes mate with domestic dogs.The resulting hybrids, called coydogs, maintain the coyote’s predatory nature, along with the dog’s lack of timidity toward humans, making them a more serious threat to livestock than pure-blooded animals. This crossbreeding has the added effect of confusing the breeding cycle. Coyotes usually breed only once a year, while coydogs will breed year-round, producing many more pups than a wild coyote. READ THAT LAST SENTENCE CAREFULLY
… Good heavens people coyotes are not indigenous to wooded habitat…they don’t belong here… they are here as an adaptive species… good on all of you for your “heart strings”… but I fear your empathy and hope for your enlightenment. What monster will you have when one cross breeds with a feral husky, German Shepard or pitbull…? A 40 lb. first grader will be a tasty treat. Wait til one runs out in front of you grabs the little tyke from the sand box and heads for the brush…while you stand there horrified and not able to do a damn thing. Funkietoo you have some very very wrong assumptions.
Data from USDA Wildlife Services, the California Department of Fish & Game, and other sources show that while 41 attacks occurred during the period of 1988–1997, 48 attacks were verified from 1998 through 2003. The majority of these incidents occurred in Southern California near the suburban-wildland interface.
JoB you are dead wrong… the coyotes natural habitat is NOT woodland…or urban areas..and they have NOT lived here for centuries either..they are a new introduction..in heir natural habitat. they will den near open meadows in fringe forest where they have access to voles, prarie dogs, rabbits, etc… and can escape wolves. NW woods as any hunter will tell you, are actually not good game reserves for ground herbivores and rodents.. there are not enough ground species of prey who munch on grasses. BUT..adapt they will…
October 7, 2011 at 5:40 pm #736545
kootchmanMembersydney…. having hunted boar, bear, with trained dogs… they are scent trained for specific prey. They are not “turned” loose until the find dogs, (coonhounds, redbones, catahoulas, beagles, etc) tree or bay they are on scent. The capture dogs.. mostly American Bulldogs or Southern Whites, are let loose for the capture and then leashed. They will ignore deer, antelope, squirrels, rabbits etc… when on a hunt. Not very many big game hunters here I see.
October 7, 2011 at 5:50 pm #736546
sydneyMemberI don’t hunt because I’m too busy. If I had time or someone in the family who still liked to hunt I’d go for venison, because I love it, and I know as a prey species the deer are pretty successful at population increase. In some areas they are too successful and starve.
But I’m not the one…if any…who mentioned dogs.
October 7, 2011 at 5:59 pm #736547
JoBParticipantkootch…
“they will den near open meadows in fringe forest where they have access to voles, prarie dogs, rabbits, etc”
you do realize that most of our greenspaces are little more than fringe forest, don’t you?
sydney…
the demise of the red fox bothers me too
it is clear that the coyote population is out of balance..
in spite of what kootch calls my “heart strings” I don’t think there are any easy answers.
****
what i do know…
indoor cats don’t become coyote food
and
contained dogs don’t mate with coyotes creating hybrids…
October 7, 2011 at 6:03 pm #736548
sydneyMemberI agree with funkie’s approach!
October 7, 2011 at 6:21 pm #736549
datamuseParticipantThe last time this topic came up I recall coming across some research that concluded that a major factor contributing to the rise in coyote populations and expansion of range in North America was the decrease of the gray wolf population. Coyotes moved into that niche and continued expanding from there.
At the time, I suggested that the clear solution was to release gray wolves in West Seattle. Hey, it’s no weirder than what Kootch is proposing. :D
October 7, 2011 at 6:28 pm #736550
JoBParticipantdatamuse…
although i am a strong proponent of balanced ecosystems…
the though of grey wolves roaming our streets at night gives me pause.
perhaps we could add some bears to deal with the wolves?
;->
i love that grin thing you do but can’t figure out how to do that. I must be missing something again:(
i am socially challenged when it comes to these things …and not just because i am old
i have always been this way:(
October 7, 2011 at 6:34 pm #736551
kootchmanMembersydney…yep.. the wolf was a key species… hence the deer population explosion… and fewer hunters.
Yes JoB I do…however, it is adaptive coyote populations..they prefer access to prairie .. only OUR presence here makes this attractive habitat. There are feral dogs..lots of em..and dogs do escape. Most people do not keep cats indoors all day…
datamuse… I don’t think there is enough big game for wolves..unless you include goats, … a pack of 8-12 wolves … that’s a lot of game…a deer a day ….
October 7, 2011 at 6:37 pm #736552
JoBParticipantkootch…
i don’t know what world you live in…
“Most people do not keep cats indoors all day…”
but yes, they do.
they even build kittie condo ourdoor wire enclosures to allow their sweet little friends safe outdoor access.
some people even train their cats to walk on collar.
imagine that!
as for those feral dogs you mention…
i think they are more the result of owners turning loose animals they no longer want to assume responsibility for than escapes :(
but you keep that fantasy world of yours going
it amuses me.
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