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June 20, 2013 at 7:04 am #607974
HMC RichParticipantI find it very interesting that our President said the following.
I so dislike our President. I think he is a complete and utter fool. This is not part of his job. What an idiot. Maybe after he bows to a Saudi ruler he should tell them their teachings are divisive. Not a chance.
June 20, 2013 at 8:39 am #792179
dobroParticipantFrom your link…
“If towns remain divided—if Catholics have their schools and buildings and Protestants have theirs, if we can’t see ourselves in one another and fear or resentment are allowed to harden—that too encourages division and discourages cooperation,†the US president said.
The US politician made the unfounded claim despite a top Vatican official spelling out the undeniable good done by Catholic education in a speech in Glasgow on Saturday and in his homily at Mass on Friday.
The quote is from the Scottish Catholic Observer. A person who was unbiased could easily see that what Obama said is common sense and the comment by a “top Vatican official” is pure home team bias. Please point out any untruth in Obama’s statement.
June 20, 2013 at 2:21 pm #792180
miwsParticipantI so dislike our President.
Yes, we know.
And you continue to show it, by continuing to
Mike
June 20, 2013 at 4:49 pm #792181
SmittyParticipantFixed:
““If towns remain divided—if wealthy people have their Sidwells Friends schools and the rest of America have their public schools, if we can’t see ourselves in one another and fear or resentment are allowed to harden—that too encourages division and discourages cooperation,‒
June 20, 2013 at 5:35 pm #792182
JiggersMemberI’m agnostic so I don’t care. But when they start to try and push their religious BS on me, watch out!!! Religion is a chosen lifestyle and all man made.
June 20, 2013 at 7:07 pm #792183
elikapekaParticipantGods don’t kill people. People with gods kill people.
June 20, 2013 at 8:31 pm #792184
dobroParticipant“…if wealthy people have their Sidwells Friends schools…”
Glad to see you’re against income inequality. Many Democratic programs (Soc Security, Obamacare, etc) are in place to try to offset some of the effects of that.
Still wondering what part of Obama’s statement is untrue.
June 20, 2013 at 11:03 pm #792185
WFMemberobama is a nice guy and would be great to have beer with; but hillary would have done a much better job as president.
separation of church and state is important; but sometimes politicians try to get to PC about it.
June 21, 2013 at 8:24 pm #792186
skeeterParticipantI think President Obama was wrong on this. Parents send their children to Catholic schools for one or both of the following reasons:
1. The Catholic School provides a better academic experience than the public school and/or
2. The parents want their children to be taught Catholic history, teachings, morality, spirituality, service, etc.
They don’t send their kids to Catholic School to separate their children from the rest of society in my experience.
Does it create a certain division when children go to different schools? Well, I suppose so. But I think its more of a diversity rather than division. Some families like to go to art museums. Some prefer sporting events. Are art museums and sporting events divisive? I would say not. Just different things for different people.
I don’t agree with the President’s position on this.
June 21, 2013 at 9:18 pm #792187
dobroParticipantOne of the most annoying things about discussing politics is the modern phenomena of taking bits of information out of their contextual environment and redefining their meaning to suit an agenda. This is a perfect example.
Do you realize these remarks were made in Northern Ireland to a Northern Ireland audience? Have any knowledge or recollection of the long history of Protestant/Catholic conflict there? Do you think that might have something to do with the President’s remarks being focused on religious division?
In other words, my reading comprehension skills and cursory knowledge of Irish history lead me to believe that President Obama was not addressing any Americans or American situations and was not speaking or taking any position on this as an American issue. He was addressing issues specific to his audience.
The right wingers will use anything to gin up fake outrage. The IRS thing is a failure, Benghazi rage is on life support, and stuff like this shows the depths to which they’ll go to twist words. Pathetic.
June 22, 2013 at 1:56 am #792188
JanSParticipantdobro…exactly!
June 22, 2013 at 2:04 am #792189
JoBParticipantskeeter..
i appreciated your post..
it was direct, to the point and clearly expressed your opinion.
i don’t agree with you…
dobro has a point.. in respect to this comment, context matters…
but i still appreciated your post ;->
June 22, 2013 at 3:09 am #792190
dobroParticipantLet me make clear that my post was aimed at the OP.
June 27, 2013 at 6:24 am #792191
HMC RichParticipantDobro. He may have been talking about the British Subjects of Northern Ireland and the British Irish Catholics of Northern Ireland but to use schools as an example was a bad choice. He may have meant to illustrate one way of joining people together, which I believe he did not, and usually his religious points attack Catholic Beliefs.
He does not bring people people together. He divides and has throughout his administration. He has a progressive/socialist view of the world and he pushes government schools aggressively. He is pushing 4 year old daycare federally too. Remember the schools in DC he closed that helped inner city kids that were benefiting them? And if all kids should be in the same schools, he could send his kids to public schools.
He has an agenda and he was called out on it.
June 27, 2013 at 7:57 am #792192
dobroParticipantThat’s a load of nonsense. We get it, you don’t like President Obama. Your opinions on his “agenda” are, unsurprisingly, fact-free.
June 27, 2013 at 4:27 pm #792193
JoBParticipantdobro..
what a load of nonsense?
bull crappy
it is bull crappy i say….
pure bull crappy…
i would go further.. it is racist bull crappy…
but there you go
even democrats sometimes have obnoxious opinions
and HMC would support my right to express them
he said so.
June 28, 2013 at 7:38 am #792194
HMC RichParticipantAlthough I am not the most religious person I defend us at times. And JoB and Dobro you may promote your opinions as much as you like because just like owning a gun in this country, it is your right with some exceptions.
HHS mandate about contraception is an affront to a variety of religious groups. I find it interesting the left wants the government to stay out of the bedroom except when it suits them. How disingenuous and typical.
The Bill Of Rights. First Amendment. Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; ….. HHS ACA rules inhibit free exercise of the contraception mandate. And the courts agree….http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2013/june/hobby-lobby-tenth-circuit-hhs-contraceptive-mandate.html
In this list by Wallbuilders there is example after example of his disdain for religion especially Christians. http://www.wallbuilders.com/libissuesarticles.asp?id=106938
These are the facts if you dare to read them.
Our father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name……
2 Timothy 3:12 Yes, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
But I do not follow the scriptures word by word. JoB, you have to admit this is a doosy…
Timothy Chapter 2 Verse 12- I give no permission for a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. A woman ought to be quiet,
Sorry Paul and Timothy. All people should be respectful and heard when appropriate.
June 28, 2013 at 8:06 am #792195
dobroParticipant“In this list by Wallbuilders there is example after example of his disdain for religion especially Christians. http://www.wallbuilders.com/libissuesarticles.asp?id=106938
These are the facts if you dare to read them.”
I dared to read them. Another pile of cr*p full of RW talking points distorting and outright lying about things Obama has said or done. Since you claim to follow some Biblical precedents maybe you should try this one some time…thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
June 28, 2013 at 12:41 pm #792196
JoBParticipantHMCRich..
it might surprise you to learn that i am a Christian.
and that i take my faith seriously.
President Obama is a Christian.
he takes his faith seriously too.
but for both us of it is a primarily private matter.
One does not have to stand in the aisles, claim persecution, vote Republican and bay at the moon to be a Christian.
Freedom of religion is supposed to mean that you are free to pursue the religion of your choice
not that any one religion is free to impose their beliefs on the majority.
June 28, 2013 at 4:01 pm #792197
wakefloodParticipantAnd also free to pursue no religion whatsoever.
“In God We Trust” (which, btw, is a mid 20th C. inclusion) doesn’t apply to me and millions of other Americans who love this country and want it to fulfill its promise. A promise the Founders made to me and all others who think organized religion has no place in their public or private life.
If that isn’t respected, then you don’t get respect from me. It’s just that simple.
June 29, 2013 at 8:55 am #792198
HMC RichParticipantDobro, I answered with cited examples from the article, Obama’s attack on religious and mostly Christian attacks or snubs. If you cannot accept it, well, fine. It doesn’t affect me. I am comfortable in my answer. If there are lies, prove it and enlighten me.
Wakeflood, choosing not to pursue a religion is a choice for an individual, which I respect.
But for those who only demonize people of faith while benefiting from the positives that have come from a religious ethic that permeates a large swath of our society is at odds with societal norms and behaviors.
In support of your note of “In God We Trust”, in the Pledge of Allegiance, the statement “one God” was added in the 50’s by the Congress I believe. Was it necessary? Maybe to them but not to me. Why? Because a majority at the time felt that way and voted for it. See!!! I am not just one-sided. OK, that can be changed once enough Senators and Congressmen feel it should be and vote on it.
Wakeflood, funny you should mention the founders. The Declaration Of Independence says the following…
We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”
Yes, the founders did not want ever a Federal Religion, a Theocracy. 97% of the Founders were Christians who wrote these documents at great risk to themselves. Plus the Constitution recognizes the Declaration in Article VII.
This from Christian Parents.com
The Constitution attaches itself to the Declaration by dating itself as being signed in the twelfth year of the independence of the United States of America! Now that proves the founding fathers considered themselves to have been living in the USA for twelve years under the government document of the Declaration of Independence. Not only was the Constitution dated in recognition of the Declaration of Independence, also the later government acts were dated from the Independence of the United States of America.”
It’s OK to not be part of a religion, but to deny what it (The Judeo Christian ethic) has done in building our country is to deny the truth in my opinion. You will not change my mind on this.
Because we are a secular nation, you have the (god given … Just Kidding) right to believe or not believe what you want.
Look, I don’t like pushy people regardless if they are selling magazines or Jesus. All faiths and movements, secular and religious, have their human problems. That’s life.
I don’t need your respect but I respect that people posting put down what you believe. More importantly, I respect the founders for giving us a document that allows us to respect or not respect people’s thoughts, ideas, writings, etc.
June 29, 2013 at 9:09 am #792199
HMC RichParticipantJoB, I know you are a Christian and you have mentioned it before.
President Obama is a Christian. He was part of a Liberation Theology church. That is his right.
I have belief but do not share that part very often, but sometimes I do. And this is appropriate.
Just like those who demonize people, groups, etc I have a right to defend them too.
I agree with a lot of your assessment but you also singled out the political opponents that do not always agree with your view.
Their point of view, well their freedom to promote and say it (whether it is stupid or not) is every bit as valid as yours. That is the beauty of our country.
June 29, 2013 at 5:29 pm #792200
dobroParticipant“If there are lies, prove it and enlighten me.”
As I’ve said before, it’s too bad redblack doesn’t come around anymore because he seemed to take delight in demolishing all the falsehoods listed on these RW websites and cited by the Fox News crowd. I don’t care to waste my time disproving malarkey that rational people would look at and see, using simple reading comprehension skills, as pure distortion and bias. (like the wallbuilders website)
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. but facts are facts and you won’t find many of those at Wallbuilders.
July 2, 2013 at 7:06 pm #792201
wakefloodParticipantRich, you don’t need a god or a religious dogma to do the right thing. Secular humanism is every bit as effective in fostering good will and helping others as Christianity, without the unseemly side-effects of judgement mentality, reliance on human interpretation of supposedly “divine” law, and the tribal exclusion/inclusion boundaries – and all the baggage that comes with that.
July 2, 2013 at 7:25 pm #792202
wakefloodParticipantAnd the concept of a “creator” doesn’t exclude any non-judeo-christian entity… Could be anything. :-)
Jefferson – one of the several “enlightened” framers was acutely aware of the possibility of a non-christian entity that certainly wasn’t involved in the musings of humans, much less a puppeteer of them. (Witness his annotated version of the new testament that excluded all supernatural events that he thought folly. Made the remaining content quite acceptable as a guideline for living and required no notion of an interventionist god.)
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