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March 21, 2011 at 6:24 pm #598377
lcMemberMarch 21, 2011 at 7:25 pm #720817
KenParticipantI don mean to upset you but curiosity demands I ask why AC?
It is needed maybe between 8 and 15 days each year. I have not suceeded in justifying the cost to myself yet.
Is it an anti asthma tactic? Do you want to replace your current heating with a dual purpose heat pump?
March 21, 2011 at 7:37 pm #720818
lcMemberWell, we are in a home with large windows very large on all three floors. Even with sun shades it gets HOT. On the main floor there are no windows that open. This due to their size. Upstairs in the bedrooms you simply roast. There is only one window that opens. So we have very little circulation. AC is required to make it liveable more than the week or two a year when most would require AC.
March 21, 2011 at 8:02 pm #720819
JasperbluParticipant@lc We have central air conditioning (and contained heat pump w/ that AC unit). Love it, even if we only use it 8-15 days a year. My very awesome West Seattle born and raised contractor did the installation, though I’m sure he subbed the job. Would you like his contact information?
March 21, 2011 at 11:15 pm #720820
KenParticipantI have used Brennan for hydronic heating boiler replacement and some zoneing of the house. They also do AC and heat pump contracting.
Low bid and professional crew had it done quick and clean.
March 22, 2011 at 4:23 pm #720821
swimcatMemberWon’t recommend the company we used, but we LOVE our heat pump. Totally worth the expense since it resulted in super cheap electric bills to keep the house comfortable all year long. The AC kicks on much more frequently than 2 weeks out of the year too. I absolutely love it.
March 22, 2011 at 6:17 pm #720822
cjboffoliParticipantlc: I have a Modern house with lots of glass and a large Southern exposure. So I didn’t buy all of the “these aren’t the droids you’re looking for” opinions of Seattleites who told me that A/C was impractical.
Pacific NW Energy Service installed an LG mini-split system (from their Art Cool line) in my house a few years ago and I have been delighted with it. The mini split systems are so energy efficient that I barely notice a difference in my electrical bills even during the hottest parts of the year.
March 22, 2011 at 6:36 pm #720823
Genesee HillParticipantYes, those ductless heat pumps are the way to go.
March 22, 2011 at 7:31 pm #720824
KevinParticipantWe considered central AC last year, and even consulting with a friend who is in the industry it sounded like we would be spending 4 to 5 thousand dollars.
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We found a wonderful alternative which worked quite nicely. We had a carpenter cut a “window opening” and we bought a very large AC unit from Sears. The temperature was TOO cold in the room where the unit is installed, but we used a floor fan to shoot the air down a hallway to cool our bedrooms in the back of the house.
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Our total cost = $500 for a top of the line AC unit with Sears 5 year warranty (good insurance to have) and about $400 for the carpenter. Air conditioned comfort for less than $1000. Last summer was quite pleasant at our house. :)
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We would run the system all evening, and then shut it down once we went to bed.
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In lc’s case you might want two units. Still far less costly that a central AC system considering the amount of time that we typically need AC in Seattle.
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March 23, 2011 at 4:54 am #720825
BonnieParticipantWe have central a/c too and really, it is needed. Our house has lots of windows facing south and it can get extremely hot in here. We have a heat pump with a/c but I can’t remember who installed it a few years ago.
March 23, 2011 at 8:19 pm #720826
lcMemberThank you all for the great info. Will defintely take a look at these options. I have read a bit on the LG systems and may be a good fit as the house is 100 years old and tough to retro fit these places.
March 24, 2011 at 2:50 am #720827
cjboffoliParticipantKevin raises a good point. The mini-split systems are not the cheapest option and there clearly are alternate solutions at lower price points. However, the benefits of my system as I see it are: energy efficiency, aesthetics, fast powerful volume cooling, no need to cut a large hole in any wall (except one 2 inch diameter hole for an electrical, condensation and control line), no need to run ductwork, whisper quiet performance (both the interior unit and the exterior compressor), wireless digital remote control, built-in plasma air cleaning, switchable heat pump to provide alternate heating in winter, the ability to market the A/C as a sales feature at re-sale time.
Outside:
Inside:
May 16, 2011 at 3:37 pm #720828
BBGuestMemberJust thought I would share my two cents. I had central air installed by Sears. They did a good job. South facing windows, no trees (new construction) had my second floor in the 90s and no way to cross ventilate for cooling at night.
The central air has only had to run maybe 20 days a year but was worth every cent. Even better, once installed I thought it sounded like a jet taking off, called Sears and they gave me a substantial refund based on their policies. My neighbors have not complained (thank goodness).
This year I had special window film placed on the southern exposure windows and would recommend that first. It is an amazing insulator from heat and cold. Get a professional to install, it is less expensive than doing it yourself from Home Depot and they (Emerald City Tinting) were exceptional.
May 17, 2011 at 2:14 am #720829
metrognomeParticipantcjb — I’m interested in a mini-split for my condo; do you have contact info for Pacific NW Energy as I can’t seem to find them on-line. Also, did you compare other systems, such as Mitsubishi? Thanks.
June 13, 2011 at 8:34 pm #720830
skystyler1000Membercjb – I am also interested in the LG mini split but can’t find contact info for Pacific NW Energy. Not sure if they are in business anymore. Do you have any other recommendations for LG mini split installers
June 15, 2011 at 5:17 pm #720831
Genesee HillParticipantI just had a mini-split system put in our house; one outdoor unit “feeding” two indoor units. The contractor we chose uses Mitsubishi. I just tried them out today. VERY IMPRESSIVE. Ultra quiet. I have done a lot of research on heat pumps and mini-splits are unbeatable for low noise levels, and are exceptionally efficient.
metrognome: Do the bylaws of your condo association allow for cutting a small hole in the wall and mounting an outdoor compressor and the associated electrical/refrigeration lines? Perhaps on your deck? The outdoor compressor on the Mitsubishi is exceptionally quiet, but condo bylaws would need to be checked out, I would think.
June 15, 2011 at 6:35 pm #720832
metrognomeParticipantGenHill — thanks for the feedback on your experience; my installation sounds as if it will be very similar to yours. I am planning on installing it in the back corner of my patio so I can run it into both the living room and master bedroom. I’m curious which contractor you used. Also, does it run on 220 or 110? Did you need to run any wire?
Thanks also for mentioning the condo restrictions; the good news is that the Board just approved allowing a new owner to install a new dryer vent on a wall that is exposed to the weather. In my case, the holes would be completely sheltered, so I am hoping I won’t have trouble getting it approved. The fact that it is so quiet is good to know, as that may be a concern to the Board. Also, my need for the A/C is based on medical reasons, which strengthens my position.
We are just starting a major project to repair wet rot, replace windows, etc. and will probably have to replace all the siding, so I am hoping to coordinate with that project to minimize cost and any objections. The fact that it is so quiet is good to know, as that may be a concern to the Board.
June 16, 2011 at 2:36 am #720833
Genesee HillParticipantmetrognome!
It is 220. It is necessary to run wire. The installer was a sub-contractor of the General Contractor, so I will have to find out his contact info. I do know his price was significantly lower than other proposals.
Another thought. Do you have natural gas for heat? If so, perhaps pure air conditioning would be the way to go, as a previous poster recommended.
These mini-splits are quite expensive. Ours was 4500 dollars, not counting the electrical work. It was worthwhile in our case because the main use will be for heating. No gas on our street and we got rid of the oil burner last year.
If you use electricity ONLY for heating, then a mini-split is very efficient, plus the added bonus of efficient air conditioning.
When I get the name of the installer, I will pass it on to you. Stay in touch, metrognome!
June 16, 2011 at 4:30 am #720834
metrognomeParticipantGenHill — thanks. I thought I recalled that it was 220. The nice thing is that there is an in-wall heater (which I hate) right at that corner where the patio, LR and BR meet and it is 220. No gas here. I am probably going to have my unit’s elec panel upgraded as the load distribution in this place is really weird. Plus I’ll have multiplex or wireless added for the back bedroom (as I age with my disability, I will probably need live-in assistance; I bought this unit specifically because the layout would support their privacy and mine.)
When I passed my request to the Board (and they passed it on the the mgmt co.), the response was that they may look at offering the option to all owners, which should reduced the hardware costs. We’ll see … I may know more after the Board mtg tomorrow.
June 17, 2011 at 8:09 pm #720835
Genesee HillParticipantmetrognome:
The contractor that installed our Mitsubishi mini-split system was George Johnson of Northwestern Furnace. His phone number is 425-478-0653.I talked to him today to verify his contact information. He does not advertise in the yellow pages. Everyone who sees this thing work wants one. Remote contol, quiet, and efficient. I cannot hear the roof-mounted outdoor unit from ten feet away. I think I could hear it if I climbed on the roof and sat next to it!
The fact that you also have no natural gas would be one more reason to install one. I have read that they are as cheap, if not cheaper, to run than gas. I verified this on Seattle City Light website. Plus air conditioning is a HUGE plus!
The City of Seattle has to approve the noise level; ours passed even though the outdoor unit is within 12 feet of our property line.
June 17, 2011 at 8:32 pm #720836
cjboffoliParticipantGenesee Hill: What do you mean by “The City of Seattle has to approve the noise level?” I installed a mini-split system in 2008 and had no such requirement to contend with. Even running at full capacity on the hottest day of the year, my LG mini split compressor is barely audible over the ambient daytime noise. If I couldn’t see the fan spinning I might not even think it is on. That’s how quiet it is. At 53 decibels, it seems to be that it would fall way under the threshold that would involve the City.
June 18, 2011 at 1:01 am #720837
Genesee HillParticipantCJ:
Since the date of your installation, the City of Seattle has cracked down on external to the building heat pump compressors. In addition to my new mini-split, I have a brand new as of December, 2010, York heat pump used for the main house with existing duct work. The refrigeration inspector had to approve the noise level. The limit is 45 decibels. This is a newly enforced regulation. Call City of Seattle noise abatement if you don’t believe me.
The refrigeration inspector told me the most difficult part of his job is informing people that their heat pump will not pass because it is too close to an adjoining neighbor’s property line. As you probably know 45 decibels is about the same level of sound as a “normal” speaking voice.
Washington Energy informed me in November, 2010, on this new restriction in Seattle. Yes, indeed, the mini-splits are very quiet; mine runs at about 48-50 decibels, hence, they can be much closer to the property line. If metrognome’s compressor is one foot away from a neighbor, there may be a problem.
Believe me, I was in contact with the City of Seattle Noise Abatement specialists on numerous occassions. One can contact: Seattle Noise Abatement Specialist David George at 206-684-7843 on the specifics of heat pump compressors in the city of Seattle regarding noise limits.
Yes, mini-splits, as I have clearly stated, are very quiet. However, 53 decibels (which is greater than 45 decibels) a foot away from a neighbor has the potential for a problem.
As noted earlier, I did a lot of research on heat pumps; both mini-splits and regular air source large ones.
I just want to point out all of the latest information that I have gathered in the last eight months to be helpful to anyone considering any type of heat pump. Condo property lines are much closer than single family residences. I WAS WORRIED SICK THAY MY YORK HEAT PUMP WOULD NOT PASS THE NEWLY ENFORCED NOISE RESTRICTIONS! Especially after spending 9000 dollars! And, I want to emphasize, in the city of Seattle, it is rigorously enforced. Just ask Washington Energy Services!
Fortunately, my large York was isolated enough from the neighbors that it passed.
I just want to pass on what I have learned, and this is RECENT information, to others interested in heat pumps. Both mini-splits and the big ones.
I have both.
June 18, 2011 at 1:47 am #720838
cjboffoliParticipantGH: I believe you but I’m amazed. 45 db seems really low considering the racket so many window-mounted air conditioners make. You’d think the City would want to encourage the super-efficient mini-splits over the energy guzzling window units. The ambient sound of my neighborhood is at least 50 db without any traffic rolling by! Not to mention my neighbor who runs a janky clothes drier around the clock (I honestly think she’s running a secret commercial laundry from her house) and it emits a 75 decibel whine only about ten feet from my windows.
June 18, 2011 at 2:30 am #720839
Genesee HillParticipantCJ:
I want to emphasize, 45 decibels is measured at the property line….not at the compressor itself! Thank goodness!
June 25, 2011 at 3:09 am #720840
kootchmanMemberdoes the city accept the manufacturers published decibels…or does the city require an installed test?
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