- This topic is empty.
-
AuthorPosts
-
January 3, 2012 at 4:34 pm #739184
JoBParticipantkootch..
spinning is far more effective in exercise than in arguments…
when i use your own argument against you
you claim you didn’t make that argument after all
i know you are fed a nightly dose of this kind of tactic as rebuttal
but my high school debate coach would point out that if your rebuttal doesn’t address the position of the opposing side,
it’s nothing more than posturing.
you are posturing kootch.
i spoke environment
you answered economics
which you proceeded to narrowly define
to eliminate the cost of repairing damage to the environment…
that didn’t play in high school debate
and it doesn’t play with grown-ups here either
take it to the tavern
At closing time every argument looks better
January 3, 2012 at 4:34 pm #739185
JoBParticipantJanuary 4, 2012 at 3:42 pm #739186
kootchmanMemberI answered. There is no absolute economic activity that is pure. However, Keystone has been vetted by all the states, the USGS, Department of Energy, Department of State, EPA… and all gave a green light to the project. this is the most reviewed pipeline in our history. This will be the lowest risk pipeline in our history. Jobs and energy are always going to posited against environmental concerns. This is a great deal and hugely safe. It also as a “spill bond” provision… big oil has to pay into a trust fund so if there is a spill, there is money to pay for it. Although this administration would undoubledly spend it …. on soemthing like Solyndra. You evade every discussion on the core of the issue, energy security and autonomy.
January 5, 2012 at 9:33 am #739187
HMC RichParticipantSantorum is right. If the Iranians do not play by international rules, then they need to be on notice that the world will not accept their lies and deceit. Dealing from a position of strength is better than what our current President did. Barack Hussein Obama tried the appeasement tack. It did nothing. In fact it has emboldened them even more and the US and other nations have been forced to start sanctions against the nutso regime. This sect of Shiites in charge are completely looney. The leaders of the Islamic Republic of Iran understand strength and respect it. They are holding on by a thread, and are talking bold to cover up their problems. Saddam Hussein did that and look what happened.
No, I do not want another war, but Iran is very different from Pakistan. As screwed up as Pakistan is, they have shown magnificent restraint regarding their nukes. If Iran does not have a nuclear bomb, they can’t use it against us or Israel. If they use it against Israel they will possibly poison surrounding Sunni countries with fallout. They would not care. They have no love for Saudi Arabia or Sunni Islamists either.
January 5, 2012 at 1:56 pm #739188
redblackParticipantbut Iran is very different from Pakistan.
indeed. pakistan has nukes. they’re pointed at our other ally in the region.
israel has nukes, too. 300 warheads. and they’ve never signed the nuclear non-proliferation treaty.
sorry rich. in this instance, ron paul is right. no world-cop. i have no problem with iranian people, and i don’t want my country dropping any more bombs over there.
no, rich. it sounds to me like you do want a war. and you’d either like for obama to act like george bush (he doesn’t and that’s why we elected him) or you want to un-elect obama so that we can again be militaristic bullies against an islamic country.
interesting that you just glossed right over any and all efforts at diplomacy before you started chest-thumping.
but if you want to start a umm… muscle-measuring contest, shall we say… on december 8, obama had this to say about the republican talking point that he’s an appeaser:
“Ask Osama bin Laden and the 22 out of 30 top al-Qaida leaders who’ve been taken off the field whether I engage in appeasement. Or whoever’s left out there. Ask them about that.”
there’s a difference between saying you’re going to do something and actually doing it. and obama doesn’t seem to like to brag about his military accomplishments. when he uttered the above quote, he seemed kind of annoyed that he had to mention it. i can’t blame him. you people are becoming nastier by the day.
January 5, 2012 at 1:58 pm #739189
redblackParticipantby the way, iraq is majority shiite, too. they’d take the brunt of the fallout.
January 5, 2012 at 2:50 pm #739190
kootchmanMemberThank god republicans spent the money on the gear locker so Obama could be a stand-off shooter as our predator in chief. He wouldn’t have had those options in his quiver without the defense budgets approved by congress. Those toys were his by virtue of strong national defense spending. Republicans gave him those options. Pelosi would have given him a wad of food stamps and vouchers to throw at them.
January 5, 2012 at 2:51 pm #739191
kootchmanMemberYea.. nasty seems to still work redblack. Sure did in Iowa. Better nasty than 4 more years.
January 6, 2012 at 4:18 pm #739192
kootchmanMember“it’s real purpose.. to divert Canadian oil currently being piped to the midwest to port cities where it can be exported without every paying a penny of US tax.”
Wrong. Why do create these fantasies? Sale occurred here, taxes apply here. It’s just that easy. The will be paying over 6 billion just in real estate taxes. Add payroll taxes, add raw materials like pipe, welding, heavy equipment leases and sales, that’s a lot o’money. Ya think letting it sit in the ground for another 45 million years will add taxes? Some is better than none…. oh, yea, you don’t subscribe to that. Let’s see ….
HELENA – Gov. Brian Schweitzer is proposing to increase funding for all Montana school districts by a total of $38 million a year by redirecting oil and gas tax revenues that now only benefit schools in a few counties where the minerals are produced.
ND
The 350,000 barrels a day produced in March was actually about 2,000 barrels a day lower than in February. But Rauschenberger attributed the dip to the weather, and said that even if crude prices return to prior levels the state expects to take in $2 billion in oil-related tax revenue over the next two years
Sayyyy… looks like the states are getting revenue… imagine that. what say you JoB? A couple of billion … with Keystone online … even more!
January 6, 2012 at 11:46 pm #739193
kootchmanMemberImagine that JoB…. there are school districts in Montana who can’t spend all the money they make in oil revenues… it’s too much money.. so the governor wants to allocate to other schools. But… we have windmills and are cutting the school budgets like crazy… bty… stop being so sanctimonious.. we have been supporting WA public schools with raw log sales to Japan for decades… not lumber, not timbers, not plywood… just raw logs off public lands. Anyone remember the plywood veneer plants at the foot of the Ballard bridge? Everett, Westport, Hoquiem?
January 7, 2012 at 6:40 am #739194
JanSParticipantOK…this thread is getting entirely off the point, and way too confrontational, so…I’m now adding this. For those who object to a bit of foul language, a couple of 4 letter words, please don’t proceed any further. If you don’t mind, well…enjoy…
January 23, 2012 at 11:29 am #739195
HMC RichParticipantRedblack. Fanatical Islamists. When dealing with fanatical, I said FANATICAL Islamists, they only respect strength. When they are beaten it does not compute with their teachings. They go away for awhile to sort it out. Remember, once held by Islam, it is always considered part of Islam.
And Yes, I do not want us involved in so many theaters of Operation, but I do believe we should help Taiwan, South Korea, Europe, Canada and South Park. “Blame Canada”!!
I do not want any more wars. In fact, I do not want to buy oil from the Middle East, nor Venezuela. That is why I cannot understand why the future one term President would turn away from Keystone right now. Actually I do, he is appeasing the environmentalists. Keystone would create tens of thousands of jobs. But check out this link for his approval of a bio fuel company.. http://cnsnews.com/news/article/obama-administration-says-no-oil-yes-biofuels
For those of you too hurried to read the link, this bio fuel company would create 38 jobs and save 16 more. 20,000 vs 38. When we could have both!!
Solyndra … Gesundheit.
January 23, 2012 at 1:38 pm #739196
redblackParticipantwell, if we compare oil consumption to a heroin addiction, that’s like saying, “i’m not buying any more heroin from afghanistan! from now on, only heroin from poppies grown in america!”
good on obama for slowing down keystone. oil is poisonous, you know.
January 23, 2012 at 2:07 pm #739197
redblackParticipantback on topic: here are the republican candidates’ tax plans:
http://taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopics/Analyzing-GOP-Tax-Plans.cfm
January 23, 2012 at 10:24 pm #739198
kootchmanMemberPoor kids. If ya give Obama ANOTHER 1.2 trillions, step up to the plate cause you will have another $12,000 worth of national debt to cover. Going to break the 100K mark…add the average college debt and you will be living with mommy and daddy until your mid 30’s…. and you think taxes will cover that? Nooo way, no how…. 17 trillion … means ya have to stop spending too much.
January 24, 2012 at 12:30 am #739199
JanSParticipantget the feeling that people will dance around the most unimportant things, so as to avoid what really needs to be talked about?
and I want to see proof that Keystone will create..what did you say, Rich? 20,000 jobs? The jury is out on that one…reports are now saying that ain’t necessarily so…
January 31, 2012 at 9:21 am #739200
HMC RichParticipantYes, I have seen the fuzzy math, and 5000 to 10,000 temp jobs is better than none.
With all of the government-subsidized alternative energy companies going under, maybe some old fashioned oil company jobs might help. In fact, he is stopping us from being energy independent.
Read this about the Alaska Pipeline concerning environmental effects from the university of Michigan. http://sitemaker.umich.edu/section003_group001/home
Besides, that Canadian Oil needs the price of oil worldwide to be about $77 or more a barrel to make it worthwhile.
This administration’s policies are not helping the cost of fuel go down. Fuel prices up, Insurance premiums up, Medical costs up, Food prices up. Job creation stagnant (worse without the census last year and seasonal work), Debt and Deficit Up UP UP UP UP UP, Yup.
1,007 days since the Democratically led congress passed a budget. Un flipping believable. Irresponsible. This is a joke, a nightmare.
Vote.
January 31, 2012 at 9:51 am #739201
JanSParticipantthe oil from Canada through the XL pipeline is not for us…it’s just going to Texas (if it goes) to be shipped overseas. It’s Canada’s oil to do with as they want when it gets to whatever port it gets to. The idea that the Keystone XL pipeline is going to help us be energy independent is far from the truth.
http://www.tarsandsaction.org/spread-the-word/key-facts-keystone-xl/
January 31, 2012 at 1:57 pm #739202
redblackParticipantThis administration’s policies are not helping the cost of fuel go down. Fuel prices up, Insurance premiums up, Medical costs up, Food prices up. Job creation stagnant
so now you want the government’s hand on the tiller of the free market?
pinko.
January 31, 2012 at 4:43 pm #739203
JoBParticipantkootch..
“You evade every discussion on the core of the issue, energy security and autonomy.”
whose energy security and autonomy?
the purpose of the keystone pipeline is to transport oil from our northern border to our southern border where it can be processed (or not) and shipped elsewhere.
if there is any national autonomy here.. it is Canadas… and we would have to look even further afield for the illusion of energy security…
i don’t care how much sh.t you throw at the wall..
it doesn’t change the fact that although there is some money to be made on the construction and maintenance of this pipeline, the primary beneficiaries won’t be assuming the environmental risk here.. we will.
Now you want me to pick up the tab for Canadian Oil company profits too?
I don’t think so.
January 31, 2012 at 7:49 pm #739204
kootchmanMemberOK… we know surface transport is the most precarious mode. So, here’s what we will do. Canada will sell its oil. You would prefer they sell it via pipeline to BC where it will then transit The Straits of Juan de Fuca in Canadian shipping waters? Good thinking!! How’s a 40 million gallon spill going to look in Puget Sound? Second, let’s talk about risk. I see FOO (Friend of Obama) will gladly ship the shale oil on Burlington Northern tracks to the Gulf. Train after train of 200 cars or more being carried to the refinery centers on the rail tracks we have? See those great big diesel electric freight train engines? The 2000 gallon fuel tanks? Pipelines don’t have them. Ya think Buffett trains are less risky than pipelines? How many derailments do we have a year? JoB ya don’t know the economics of oil…. the money is made AT THE REFINERY…not the well head. The very reason for those obscene profits you love so much. Oil is about 97 per barrel…tar sand extraction costs are about 78 per barrel. (42 gallons) gross profit of $20 per barrel,, or .50 cents per gallon. average gasoline yield is about 24 gallons.. where are we now…. 3.30 a gallon… that’s $82.50 .for HALF the barrel. … of which your federal government rakes in a few billion and so does the state of WA….. then add in… the value of lubricants, plastics, fertilizer, . getting the picture? It ain’t the Canadians that get the juice it is US refineries…. the value added manufacturing portion of crude oil. One thing I am sure of… the Canadians are far less likely to arm Hamas, send oil dollars to Pakistan madrassas, fund terriorist networks etc…. and if it is shipped elsewhere… so what? It’s as objectionable as Caterpillar selling iron ore it has converted to earth moving equipment. Those are manufacturing jobs…. right here. BTY if you want some of those Canadian profits… you can get them. Buy Keystone stock and collect dividends… in addition to Chevron, Shell, stocks. It’s a good thing. Unions seem to think there are lots of jobs…. they want the pipeline. do you think one of the worlds largest oil deposits will go untapped and unsold because Obama wants his buddy and BNR to ship the crap in rail cars? Noooo …. it will get sold. Red China would love to buy, as would Japan, Korea, etc…. it’s a commodity, available from a stable government country. Didn’t your momma talk to you about cutting off your nose to spite your face? No redblack we don’t want their hand on the tiller…. just their big meaty thumb off the scales!! Gasoline was 1.97 per gallon on the day The Messiah took office… it’s now over $3.40…. now talk about regressive policies… who gets hit the hardest? Ya think the Audi A-8 drivers give a damn?… noooo … the average working Joe or Jane is getting the bill.
January 31, 2012 at 8:00 pm #739205
JanSParticipantwhat unions are clamoring for the pipeline? name one, and quote a source. Again, Kman, anything…and I mean anything? for a buck?
February 1, 2012 at 2:15 pm #739206
redblackParticipant17 trillion … means ya have to stop spending too much.
i have a new attitude toward the debt: let’s drive that sucker up. higher and higher. borrow more, spend more.
i’m not having kids. so what do i care?
if it’s the only way that democrats can keep social programs alive, then borrow, borrow, borrow.
have a nice day.
February 1, 2012 at 11:14 pm #739207
kootchmanMemberThat’s precisely what he is trying to do. Break the country and force us all to be supplicants. You may have five to ten years before ya hit the Greece model of debt over 120% of GDP… then what? You’ll ne chewing on your gums wondering how to get false teeth cause the system crashed. Social programs are the surplus of a healthy economy…. a social safety net should be a trampoline, not a hammock. You are not going to enter the middle class on government entitlements. Your “new” attitude by the way is not new… it’s the mantra of the left. Been chanting it for years. First one to to admit it though.
February 2, 2012 at 12:06 am #739208
JoBParticipantkootch…
sorry
there is no big bad obama under the bed
there is however an attempt to break our country and force us all to be supplicants.
but you will have to look closer to home for those undermining America’s strength.
-
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.