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June 12, 2012 at 2:08 am #603572
kootchmanMemberJustice is coming.
June 12, 2012 at 5:04 am #760603
redblackParticipantso are we going to end gun-walking operations across the mexican border? ’cause you know that republicans invented that tactic, right? you probably didn’t have much to say about it then, though, huh?
but if eric holder is your target, i commend your efforts, despite the fact that you’re just counting political coup. that guy needs to go. yesterday. but not just for that.
i mean, do you blame obama for all of the NATO deaths in afghanistan, too?
oh, wait. of course you do.
June 12, 2012 at 6:07 am #760604
kootchmanMemberDude, I posted over a year ago this was dirty and DOJ was eyeballs deep in it, They tried to offload it as a rogue ATF operation. when in fact, this DOJ has the stjnk, the evidence of wiretap authorizations direct from DOJ to ATF are in congressional hands, DOJ pummeled the whistleblowers.. wait… more is coming. This was done for one reason… to discredit gun stores and taint second amendment rights. It had nothing to do with Mexico… Brian Terry was a sacrifice for the anti-gun lobby. Yea he is responsible for every death after he took the oath of office.,, who else would be? This. the most open and transparant government in our history is being outed as nothing seem like it since Nixon, In fact, it may be worse. Pat Caddell, the Democratic pollster is naming names… on all those security leaks made to fluff up Obamas appeal. Two hot ones… five months before the election. C[mon ya can’t be a Holder man can ya? He is the best friend your party ever had for their Wall Street cronies. Dirtier than John Mitchell…. and that’s a hard record to beat.
June 12, 2012 at 2:14 pm #760605
redblackParticipantso you think it’s a conspiracy to discredit the sale of guns and assail your second amendment right to buy automatic weapons? how? obama tells holder, “ramp this program up so it will boil over then cause a tragedy, then we can take away kootch’s guns. and it will improve my image among the gun-toting crowd.”
no wonder the only “news” organizations talking about this are daily caller and fox news.
nothing to do with mexico… except terry was shot in the back by the cartel with a gun that came from the u.s. government under a dragnet that has been in place for over six years. when you’re actively putting guns into the hands of the cartel, inevitably, bad things will happen. it’s a dangerous program, but it has been catching big fish. these programs were started by texas and emulated by ATF when bush was in office, by the yea.
but you’re right. we should be holding obama to higher standards than the last clown who held that office.
and, no, i’m not a fan of eric holder. i’ve stated repeatedly that he’s a do-nothing water boy for the banks. believe me, that guys sticks in a lot of democrats’ craws simply for not going after his former employers.
then again, the guy in the house who’s going after holder is the only sitting rep with a criminal record.
June 12, 2012 at 2:45 pm #760606
JoBParticipantkootch..
“This was done for one reason… to discredit gun stores and taint second amendment rights.”
is THAT what the Bush administration had in mind?
June 12, 2012 at 7:14 pm #760607
DBPMemberFor your convenience, I have compiled the following list of individuals who should be allowed to possess assault weapons:
1) SWAT team cops on duty
2) US military personnel on duty
Â
Now then . . . based on the above list, here are some examples of people who should NOT have access to assault weapons:
—Mexican drug cartel members
—Rogue ATF officials
—Paranoid loners
—Country boys
Â
Any questions?
Â
June 12, 2012 at 7:42 pm #760608
kootchmanMemberNope, before they closed the program, it was to trace illegal firearms sales. What the ATF and DOJ had in mind was to ramp up the program for thousands of sales… in fact the gun stores are on record, writing to ATF saying this is out of control…. are you sure this is what you want us to do? They were green lighted. Yep, the whole intent of Lenny was to show how “uncontrolled” gun sales were and slap restrictions on sem-automatics rifle sales. That would be my political spin on it. DOJ amped this thing up from trying to trace a “few” guns, into a mini -international arms bazzaar. See the difference? They didn;t walk few guns… they sold them by the thousands… so many they lost track of them.. so many they couldn’t track em.
June 12, 2012 at 8:34 pm #760609
DBPMemberSimple solution to a simple problem: Ban assault weapons.
No assault weapons = no more rogue ATF programs to funnel assault weapons to Mexico through legit gun dealers.
Had an assault weapons ban already been in place, the only way ATF could have pulled this stunt off would have been to acquire and distribute the weapons on its own, without using gun dealers.
However, in that scenario, ATF most likely would not have even ATTEMPTED this crackpot scheme.
—And if they had? Well, if they had, then Eric Holder would probably be rotting in prison right now, even as we speak, with severe implications for the Obama Administration as a whole.
Isn’t that the mother of all Republican wet dreams?
—That’s all it’ll ever be, though. Just a wet dream. Cuz when it comes to guns, you people juuuuust don’t get it.
Do ya, punks?
Â
June 12, 2012 at 8:42 pm #760610
kootchmanMemberDBP… oohhhhh… too risky. As long as La Polizia have em’ and the US Military … we should have em’. Really, what does a SWAT team need them for? They don’t. Oh, we get it. Love and peace man…. may the wafting scent of patchouli surround you.
June 12, 2012 at 8:54 pm #760611
kootchmanMemberSee this thing… inducing, soliciting, and promoting illegal firearms sales… that’s a DOJ thing, entrapment and conspiracy. Legal gun shops tainted for political agenda. It’s not a wet dream. Holder is in the toilet now.. and the paper trail leads to the White House. You know what makes em an “assault weapon”? Context. It’s like the term “Progressive” .. if you use it often enough we will forget it means “tax and spend liberal”… Spears were “assault weapons” .. dead animal carcasses were assault weapons when used to assault fortified redoubts and such…. they are simply semi-automatic rifles. The .223 used to be a “varmit” round .. before the M-16 was adopted. Used for woodchucks. It was a rebrand to make them sound “ominous” … scary, bogey man guns.
You said it DPB… the government can come up with “crackpot ideas”… that’s why we have second amendment rights. Keeps the crackpots in check.
June 12, 2012 at 9:24 pm #760612
dbseaMemberIt doesn’t seem that our owning assault rifles, or anything else, is keeping the crackpots in check very well. I don’t need a semi-automatic or rapid fire weapon and neither does Joe citizen.
And Progressive doesn’t mean tax and spend. Just like Conservative doesn’t mean wealth consolidation. Unless they mean those things to you.
June 12, 2012 at 11:10 pm #760613
kootchmanMemberWe didn’t see the need to “rebrand” ourselves, cause the term conservative is not a tainted brand. Well, that is your viewpoint and I am betting you don’t have any. Aren’t personal liberties great? I intend to keep mine. Never hunted big game either I am betting. It sure keeps tjhe government in check though. Which is the purpose of having them. You aren’t free if you aren’t free to defend being free. But that is a side issue. One for the ballot box. Arming drug cartels in a country whose deaths now exceed the totality of combat deaths in either, Korea, or Viet Nam or all three wars in the middle east is not an idealogical discussion… it is what your government has done. It has done it to Mexico, with some the most stringest gun restriction laws in the hemisphere. That is the thread here… DOJ as a criminal enterprise.
June 12, 2012 at 11:28 pm #760614
dbseaMemberThe conservative brand is extremely tainted as well as the other brand. And lots of folks “representing” us ought to be in jail, including some at DOJ. Big surprise. But I won’t buy that conservatives or Republicans are somehow superior or have a better record than liberals or Democrats.
We can bitch all we want but it still only comes down to two choices each time around. I think if any of us votes for incumbents we’re crazy. By the way, where are the Democratic contenders for the Presidency? I guess we don’t get any choice.
June 13, 2012 at 12:22 am #760615
kootchmanMemberMaybe it’s time to have Mrs. Terry testify. We should understand what these decisions do, when we suspend morality for political expediency. Terrible consequences. Any side. This DOJ needs to be held accountable. So far, it has had one objective, serving political stage craft. Do you trust our DOJ?
June 13, 2012 at 1:41 am #760616
JoBParticipantkootchman…
“As long as La Polizia have em’ and the US Military … we should have em’.”
this is why parents no longer want their children to grow up to be policeman..
not even if they were policemen..
you demand the right to own a gun you don’t need which can be stolen from you and used against them
June 13, 2012 at 1:43 am #760617
JoBParticipantkootch
“cause the term conservative is not a tainted brand. “
you have heard the term “wing nuts”, haven’t you?
in case you were wondering, it’s not a compliment.
June 13, 2012 at 4:49 am #760618
kootchmanMemberIt’s not a risk free world JoB… I’ll take a little risk to not be a subject. Just my preference. But, as Mrs. Terry would probably testify, it wasn’t a stolen gun from a house that killed her son. It was a DOJ/ATF political stunt that killed her son. We don’t demand the right to keep and bear arms..or petition to keep what is ours.. it is a birthright. It was our government that sold high power weapons to drug cartels…. our national fingerprint is on not just our own… but thousands of slaughtered innocents. It wasn’t a shadow deal, selling one or two stolen guns to unknowns… we were selling thousands to known drug cartels. There is a difference. The gun shops were legal, selling legally, and were enticed by our federal law enforcement to break every gun registration legislation on the books. And violate the national sovereignty of The Republic of Mexico. Interesting… wonder why Mexican mothers don’t want their kids to be police, mayors, reporters, …. DOJ supplied armaments would be one reason.
June 13, 2012 at 1:36 pm #760619
redblackParticipantkootch, that stuff was going on anyway. ATF and DOJ looked the other way in favor of tracing those guns in order to catch the buyers. and please don’t act like those gun shop owners were all innocent, patriotic texans or americans: a lot of them knew exactly what they were doing.
but i understand that you see socialists and red commies behind every rock, bush, and tree. and that you’re locked and loaded.
DP: unfortunately, the gun nuts are right about one thing: criminalize assault weapons and only criminals will have assault weapons. and that is exactly what this whole FF/brian terry episode points out.
June 13, 2012 at 3:18 pm #760620
JoBParticipantkootch..
“It’s not a risk free world JoB… I’ll take a little risk to not be a subject.”
you might want to rethink that. Ever flip someone off kootch?
one citizen just shot and killed another in the drive thru of a fast food restaurant in Arizona because when he nearly ran the guy and his dog down, the guy turned and gestured at him.
he pulled out his gun and shot him dead.
he shot first and thought later.
this is what happens when you put guns into the hands of just any old fine upstanding citizen kootch..
they perceive a threat, they shoot first and think later.
and where was that gun that it was so accessible in the seconds during which this interaction occurred?
mr john q must have had it on or directly under his seat to pull it so quickly he didn’t notice that the kid had nothing in his hand but the leash for his dog.
it’s not even safe to cross the path of a drive through any more.
and for this, we can thank the NRA for protecting the right of idiots to own, carry and use guns in public.
this is stand your ground in action kootch…
not a lot to be proud of there.
but the guns you are worried about…
were part of an ATF sting operation that followed guns that had been sold in the United states to their final destination.
It was designed to trace and remove them from the hands of criminals who were using them .. among other things.. to protect drug shipments into the United States.
was it a good program? i don’t think so.
I think the idiot who started it should be fired and Holder should be held responsible for continuing it’s authorization…
but.. i would point out that as flawed as that program was…
it was a response to the flood of American manufactured guns rolling out the doors of gun merchants and into the hands of criminals.. both in this country and across our borders
all sanctioned by people like you who will fight to the death to keep access to the guns you don’t need and can’t handle responsibly..
according to you… buried in underground bunkers…
that you can threaten the rest of us with…
i may be just a tad snarky this morning…
but i have this itty bitty problem with worrying that i or someone i care about might turn the wrong corner one day and find themselves the collateral damage of your grand notion about gun ownership.
You have a family.
do you really think arming them will protect them against this kind of shoot first think later mentality?
June 13, 2012 at 4:46 pm #760621
kootchmanMemberCarry and conceal is a measured choice. I have posted over and over again…. if you choose to C n’ C you should acquire the skills for defensive and combat shooting. There is no substitute.
“I think the idiot who started it should be fired and Holder should be held responsible for continuing it’s authorization..”
It doesn’t need a qualifier. It was wrong. The “revenge” Holder took on the whistle blowers magnifies the offense and the political intent. His motivations are political. Saying a wrong is understandable because the motivation was good is squishy cover for a rogue DOJ. Killing of an abortion services provider is wrong.. “but” the greater motivation to protect unborn life is understandable would be an outrageous statement would it not? That’s not what the chief law enforcement officer is expected to do. He took a wrongly conceived enforcement “justification” and wanted a “two fer” where the primary objective was to restrict or close down gun dealerships. To do that, you don’t “walk” fifty weapons, you flood the area with thousands of weapons to bring overwhelming political heat to bear.
No, I don’t sanction selling high power weapons to drug cartels. Or felons. Or mentally incapacitated folks. The only sanctioning of selling automatic weapons and semi automatic weapons, to drug cartels was our DOJ.
See statements like this one “all sanctioned by people like you who will fight to the death to keep access to the guns you don’t need and can’t handle responsibly” are patently false. The gun stores for heavens sake were asking WTF is going on… Second, I am an exceptionally qualified gun user and handle them with great responsibility. As the constitution would have it… it’s MY choice to decide if I “need” it. Most American homes have firearms… over 54%.
When do gun sales sky rocket? As soon as the drumbeats of gun legislation and restriction start beating. The standing observation of every gun store is, Democrats are the best friends of arms sales.
While free to do so… flipping the bird… I wouldn’t do it. Even on a snarky day. with gun education comes gun discipline.. and recognition of a true threat. I would compromise… C n C’ is a much higher threshold. I would mandate the recommended courses of the NRA to qualify. we have minimum instruction levels for pilots, motorcycle riders, etc… to hold advanced licensing … you can’t trade in a Cessna 170 for a 747 and take er out for a spin.
June 13, 2012 at 4:59 pm #760622
kootchmanMemberredblack…
ATF and DOJ looked the other way in favor of tracing those guns in order to catch the buyers”
Tell me how that works? You enforce laws by looking the other way? They didn’t trace them..they have no idea where they went.
June 14, 2012 at 3:40 am #760623
redblackParticipantbetter do your homework, kootch. etrace was started by the bush administration. they sold assault weapons to the mexican drug cartels so ATF and DOJ could see who was buying them. when they found the buyers, they brought them down.
that was the idea, anyway.
sorry, man. no conspiracy here. just good police work.
…when it worked.
June 14, 2012 at 4:16 am #760624
kootchmanMemberGood police work? The didn’t catch anyone. All they know is the gun store that sold it by the serial number the gun store registered. They haven’t caught anyone yet. The only one with any punishment were the ATF agents that blew the whistle. Thye LOST TRACK of 2000 weapons… they have no idea where they are, or who has them except for the ones left at the Brian Terry shooting scene, and the dead body in the LA gang shooting had one. . That’s good police work? That’s Keystone Cops meets Community Organze comedy of errors. Should Holder be fired?
June 14, 2012 at 4:22 am #760625
redblackParticipantLOL
man, this argument is exactly what i though it was: a bunch of right-to-bear-arms nutbaggers martyring some guy with a 9-5 job for their own political expedience, trying to make obama look like an authoritarian commie who’s after their weird gun collections.
case closed.
June 14, 2012 at 4:23 am #760626
kootchmanMemberI did do my homework… the Bush Op ..Wide Receiver actually caught and convicted most of the runners…the sacle was tiny compared to Fast and Furious.. wrong as hell… but smaller. score for Fast and Furious? Gun runners 2000 plus, DOJ … 0
To date in Wide Receiver, nine people have been charged with making false statements in acquisition of firearms and illicit transfer, shipment or delivery of firearms. Two of the nine defendants have pleaded guilty and a plea hearing is scheduled for Oct. 13 for two other defendants.
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