Home › Forums › Open Discussion › Admiral Way Bike Lane
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July 23, 2010 at 5:20 pm #595672
hooper1961MemberThe City is planning to re-stripe Admiral Way from SW Olga Street to the WSB. Essentially they would convert the SB (downhill direction) to one lane + a bike and the NB (uphill) to 2-lanes a parking lane and bike lane.
The re-striping revision includes substantial changes at the SW Olga Street/Admiral Way intersection. The changes are reducing SB through traffic to 1 lane and creating a NB to WB left turn trap lane (a very undesirable situation).
I contacted the City regarding the changes to obtain the Traffic Volume Count at the SW Olga Street/Admiral Way intersection. The City had not even conducted a traffic count at the intersection. Collecting and analyzing traffic data is Traffic Engineering 101.
I am a Professional Engineer with expertise in Traffic Engineering and am appalled at the City’s failure to do their homework. Collecting traffic data is a basic item to do prior to making any significant traffic operational revision. The City has told me they are going to now collect and provide me the data. This data should have already been collected and analyzed by the City!
July 23, 2010 at 7:17 pm #699768
miwsParticipantJuly 23, 2010 at 7:33 pm #699769
wundrgrrrlParticipantTraffic down Admiral during commute time is worst during the UW school season when it backs up to about 41st. I hope their traffic study keeps that in mind…
July 23, 2010 at 8:44 pm #699770
JanSParticipantcorrect me if I’m wrong, but…isn’t there already a NB to WB left turn trap lane at that intersection? There has been one there as long as I can remember. So..what’s the beef? Those people have to be able to turn into their neighborhood somewhere. And…there’s a traffic light there, too. What am I missing?
Yes, Hooper, we remember you and your credentials.
July 24, 2010 at 1:43 am #699771
AlParticipantI was wondering how long it would take Hoop to comment on this.
July 24, 2010 at 1:52 am #699772
austinMemberhooper1961 should get a job so he can put his lovely expertise and credentials to use, other than harassing people on the forums.
July 24, 2010 at 4:00 am #699773
hooper1961MemberThere is an existing NB to WB LT pocket at SW Olga Street that with the plan I saw would be the end of the inside NB travel lane. The current striping is 2 NB travel lanes AND the WB to NB LT pocket. The re-stripe removes one of the NB travel lanes making the inside NB lane a very long LT pocket (aka trap lane).
I am not harassing anyone. The City did not conduct there homework, collecting traffic data prior to changing traffic channelization is Traffic Engineering 101.
July 24, 2010 at 6:40 am #699774
JanSParticipantwe know…but..it’s the city…not you. Maybe you should apply for a job, so you can set them straight and run things according to Traffic Engineering 101 :)
Now…are there not two lanes NB in the new configuration? I have not seen the drawings of the new version…are you saying that the inside NB lane will turn into a left turn only lane at SW Olga? So then the thru traffic in the right lane would back up, but once through that intersection will be back on 2 lanes again? Am I hearing that right? I’m wondering if that will be a left turn ONLY lane, or if there will be an arrow for left turning, so the inside NB lane doesn’t get all jammed up (with people who want to go through the intersection and continue on to the Admiral Junction, etc). Help me out here, please :)
July 24, 2010 at 7:24 am #699775
tkParticipantHooper- thank you for bringing this issue back up again. I hope the WS Blog can give it some more coverage before the deadline July 27th given to the public for comments. The final design will be released “mid-August” according to the SDOT website, with no more meetings scheduled with the community.
I don’t get it- SDOT reports daily average: 24,000 vehicles, 21 bicycles and 8 daily bus riders (5 inbound & 3 outbound) share that road currently. Surely, there is a better solution than the SDOT proposal!
On SDOT, I found an Admiral Way crosswalk project report from 2007, “The alternatives considering for improving the marked crosswalks at SW Hanford St and SW City View St were reducing the number of travel lanes or, like at SW Olga St, installing a traffic signal. However, given the importance of Admiral Way SW as a motor vehicle travel route, SDOT could not recommend a reduction in the number of travel lanes at this time.”
So what has changed in two years? Admiral Way is still the second highest volume “principal arterial” in West Seattle, and 11 or 12 bike riders (half the daily 21) are now given 50% of the lanes going toward Seattle? This is crazy, SDOT!
July 24, 2010 at 8:59 am #699776
WSBKeymasterThanks, tk, I don’t recall the July 27th deadline having been mentioned previously – I routinely put deadlines in stories like these (and development projects, etc.) and don’t see July 27 in either of the main stories we’ve written. Will update it by Monday.
July 24, 2010 at 4:15 pm #699777
hooper1961Memberto JanS – yes what you said appears to be the City plan. LT traffic would continue to yield to SB thru traffic that has been channeled into one lane that would provide fewer gaps to make the turn!
July 24, 2010 at 4:41 pm #699778
tkParticipantfrom the SDOT website, under Bicycle & Pedestrian projects (gee- and I thought Admiral Way was considered a primary arterial, where removing 50% (1 of 2) lanes would be at least mentioned under roadway projects?):
“PROJECT COMMENTS
Please submit your comments on the proposed changes to SW Admiral Way. You may submit your comments via email at walkandbike@seattle.gov or call 206-684-7583. Your comments are valuable to us. The comment period will close on July 27th.
After the comment period ends SDOT will send out a response to frequently asked questions to help answer specific questions you might have about the project. A follow-up open house will be scheduled for mid to late August”.
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From the FAQ’s, “SDOT plans to release final designs by mid-August.” That means the “mid to late August” open house mentioned above will be held AFTER SDOT makes it’s final decision, with no more chance for public input. From the website, the Bicycle program has a goal of adding 20 miles of bike paths per year, and so Admiral Way has been put on the fast track to meet their goal with NO current traffic studies about it’s impact to ALL of Admiral residents (the most recent traffic study on Olga was from 2000).
The 1st open house introducing the project was July 13th, with a comment period of only 2 weeks (SDOT will not answer any questions during the comment period). The open house presenters did not even know how many bus riders currently use Admiral Way- their count of bikes was from January of all absurd times to do a bike count! And in the FAQ’s posted online, the speed of cars (44-45mph) was from 2000, when the speed limit was still 35mph- they didn’t even bother to give recent speeds as justification for this fast track project.
Most residents haven’t even heard of the project! Why isn’t the Admiral Neighborhood Association involved? This decision impacts not only 24,000+ vehicles daily (and don’t forget the 21 bikers and 8 bus riders daily), but also the immediate neighborhood streets south of Olga/Admiral Way with vehicle spillover where Admiral traffic is squeezed into one lane.
With a project like this, there needs to be more time for considering all options- what about removing parking just uphill of City View (no houses) and putting in a center turn lane for safer pedestrian crossing and less traffic danger when cars try to tune left onto City View from SB on Admiral Way? What about painting a solid white stripe half way down Admiral between the 2 SB lanes to stop dangerous bargers at the bottom of the hill? What space is there to give bikes a downhill lane and let them go (slowly) uphill on the sidewalk? It should be a compromise for ALL users, not just a win/loose situation.
Given the proper chance, I think we can come up with some safer options that serve all of Admiral Way users and residents better.
July 24, 2010 at 5:30 pm #699779
hooper1961MemberTK
your points are valuable.
with regards to traffic speeds the 85th speed went up a bit after the City arbitrarily lowered the speed limit from the appropriate 35 MPH to a fantasy 30 MPH. And the # of accidents has also increased since the City started to conduct Fantasy engineering.
Hooper
July 25, 2010 at 2:35 am #699780
velo_nutParticipantI’m an astronaut… NASA did it ALL wrong.
An engineer but doesn’t know “there” from “their”…
July 25, 2010 at 4:27 pm #699781
hooper1961Membervelo – i guess i need a refresher course in English 101.
i have ridden my bike on admiral way numerous times and of course driven the corridor. the city re-stripe bike project south of olga street should work. the issue of concern is at the olga st/admiral way intersection. the city did not collect traffic data at this critical intersection; and yet is proposing a significant reduction in capacity that could also adversely effect safety.
the city has told me they are going to collect the traffic data after the fact; and presumably will put the corridor decision on hold until after the data is incorporated into the analysis. my suspicion is that they did not collect the traffic data because it will indicate that the proposed reduction in capacity at the olga street/admiral way intersection would not work.
the fact remains that collecting traffic data is a BASIC Traffic Engineering 101 task that the City neglected to do.
July 25, 2010 at 8:12 pm #699782
miwsParticipantZzzzzzzzzzzzzz…..
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