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May 11, 2010 at 6:15 pm #594797
KenParticipantDemocratic Candidates in the race for 34th District State Representative, position 2 – Marcee Stone, Mike Heavey and Joe Fitzgibbon.
http://34dems.org/news_agenda.htm
http://34dems.org/election-2010-state-rep.htm
Marcee Stone:
https://westseattleblog.com/2010/02/34th-district-democrats-marcee-stone-running-for-state-house
http://www.washclean.org/staff.htm
http://www.westseattleherald.com/2010/02/19/news/marcee-stone-makes-bid-34th-district-pos-2
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Marcee-Stone-for-34th-District-Representative-Position-2/340230309133
Mike Heavey:
http://www.mikeheavey.com/ (seems to be “under construction”
https://westseattleblog.com/2010/03/another-34th-district-state-house-candidate-mike-heavey
http://www.westseattleherald.com/2010/03/20/news/candidate-mike-heavey-why-i-am-running
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mike-Heavey-for-State-Representative-34th-District/388703329560
Joe Fitzgibbon:
https://westseattleblog.com/2010/03/now-joining-the-34th-district-state-house-2-race-joe-fitzgibbon
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Joe-Fitzgibbon-for-State-Representative/376773153069
http://www.publicola.net/2010/05/10/joe-fitzgibbon-gets-boeing-and-grocery-worker-endorsements/
http://www.publicola.net/2010/05/07/joe-fitzgibbon-young-technocrat-has-eyes-on-olympia/
All:
http://www.publicola.net/?s=34th+District+State+Representative
http://www.publicola.net/2010/04/28/the-audiences-turn-to-ask-questions/
Telling quote from the “independent”:
On the budgeting question, a fourth candidate, Triangle Pub owner, Independent Geoffery “Mac” McElroy, said simply he would cut “the environment.”
nuff said Mac…
I am interested in input from voters in my precinct (SEA-34-1490) as well as all voters in the 34th district that read this. I don’t really have a strong preference since all three Democrats seem competent, energetic and have the required (for me) mix of intelligence, education and feistyness needed to represent the Democrats of the 34th district.
I lean towards Marcee Stone since when I back up and take the long view, the future will be influenced more by whether we can start growing public campaign financing at the state and local level( since it damn sure will not be started at the federal level) than by any specific local concerns.
Up close, I like the energy and general wonkyness of Joe Fitzgibbons. He may be young, but that is no barrier, and I find it refreshing that he seems to understand tech issues beyond the buzzword stage so many of the young get stuck at (at least in comparison to us old geeks)
Ivan likes him too and that means something to me.
Mike Heavey seems like a nice traditional democrat who is doing and saying all the right things.
Got strong opinions? Post them here. The district endorsement meeting followed by the nominating convention, gives PCO’s and members an inordinate amount of influence in the process and that is going to happen on Wednesday evening 5-12-10.
For details see the first link in this post.
May 11, 2010 at 7:03 pm #694340
Jamila JohnsonMemberI am supporting Mike Heavey in this race. I have no problem with Joe Fitzgibbons—I always love a good wonk. And Marcee Stone’s approach really spoke to me early on (perhaps until she explained one of her first bills would be seeking to raise the age of consent in Washington at the 34th leg. dem. meeting). But for me it comes down to this: I know Mike and I think that he would make an excellent representative for our district. He is even headed, highly caffeinated, and his public service in his blood but mixed with healthy skepticism. It could be argued that “traditional” is pejorative. I don’t think it should be in his case. I think he understands the duty of service in a traditional sense, but I truly believe if given the chance to lead he may bring unexpected innovation to the position. It should be a good race, and our district is unlikely to be hurt by the election of any of these candidates. That said, vote Mike!
May 11, 2010 at 11:26 pm #694341
kenyonfMemberJamila –
I just wanted to clarify, Marcee was speaking toward loopholes that prevent parents from getting treatment for their children with drug and alcohol abuse problems – not raising the age of consent with regards to abortion. Unfortunately, this was reported incorrectly in Publicola and and has since been pushed as an attack by Stone’s opponents. Marcee absolutely does not support raising the age of consent in Washington State.
May 12, 2010 at 4:05 pm #694342
DuckitudeMemberI am totally unimpressed by all the candidates so far. Especially, Mr. Fitzgibbon.
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This is a candidate who seems barely out of high school and clearly does not do his homework. He showed up at the recent Morgan Community Association Meeting and was given 5 minutes to introduce himself. He did, and spent about 3 of those minutes talking about one of his alleged priority focuses — the health of Puget Sound. Yah, right.
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So, guess what, one of the most important meetings that has occurred in recent history regarding the health of Puget Sound and its relationship to West Seattle was taking place that night, right after he sat down, and THEN LEFT. As he left, I asked him why he was leaving — he mumbled something about a scheduling conflict.
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Look, you don’t claim to be interested in the Sound’s health, lobby for time to introduce yourself at a meeting, and then NOT KNOW that the hottest subject of the evening was coming up just minutes later which was THE HEALTH OF THE SOUND, and specifically, what King County contributes to that unhealthy Sound and the plans for fixing it in the West Seattle area, which are TOTALLY INADEQUATE, so far.
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You might try to argue that it is a King County issue, so a state rep. doesn’t need to be involved. Wrong. The money, the will, the political need for the state to back up the efforts and support the Sound health efforts is absolutely necessary, and the Dept. of Ecology is a key player in what takes place.
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Again, I was unimpressed with Mr. Fitzgibbon. He either doesn’t do his homework to know that he should have scheduled his time for one of the most important meetings for the health of the Sound that we have had in recent history at the Morgan Junction Community Association, or he just wanted to plug himself, and has very little real concern for us, or he is just plain immature and not ready for prime time.
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As for the other two Dem candidates… I have written them about the current, hottest issue for the health of the Sound, the planning and siting of two large, but inadequate, CSO tanks and associated facilities in West Seattle, and NONE of them have deigned to even inquire about what I am writing to them about. Nada, no response. Period. Uh. Out to lunch, I guess.
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I am not impressed.
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As for Mac McElroy, I haven’t investigated other things about Mac yet, but let me say this, he HAS been to the meetings that ARE important to the health of the Sound and I AM IMPRESSED WITH THAT. He obviously cares. In fact, he stayed through the whole meetings and instead of pitching himself, he listened and learned. He was one of us and with us. Not just trying to sell himself to us.
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So, I am not sure how all this electioneering will play out, but, as noted, I am unimpressed with the usual crowd so far.
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I could take that even further, and, I think I will. I have also contacted all the current 34th District legislative members about this HOT ecological issue (in the realm of 40 to 50 million dollar project) for the health of the Sound, and THEY have not responded. I bumped into Rep. Cody on the street who I have talked to face to face many times about mental health care in the state over the years (I was chair of the King County Mental Health Advisory Committee for two years), and she stated “Don’t think it is a state issue yet.” Well, it is. Among many things, Ecology needs to get its priorities right.
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Let me take it even further. I have written to all the high up players at the 34th District Democrats org. and they have NOT responded to the concerns this community has about the health of the Sound. So, it just goes to show how non-local the folks have become and seemingly isolated from what counts in these communities. If the health of the Sound does not matter to all the above, then I don’t know what should.
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It not only contributes to human misery and illness, but to substantial degradation of animal and plant life, among other things.
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Take a look around the United States. There is no place like Puget Sound, none. It is a treasure and the above seem to be able to ignore significant aspects of what needs to be done. It was nice that McDermott got so involved in the Maury Island mining issue, but that is small pickins’ compared how much King County contributes to the demise of Puget Sound…
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Guys and girls… get your priorities straight.
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Am I ranting enough?
May 12, 2010 at 5:40 pm #694343
KenParticipantPerhaps I am missing it. Where on this site is anything that does not seem to be a full scale NIMBY effort.
And since the county will be the party which will have to use imminent domain to treat sewer and stormwater in this neighborhood, condemning housing in the area, if the park is not available, what are the alternatives? I can’t seem to find them. Perhaps some links to studies, alternatives or even conjecture should be included.
http://soundangels.wordpress.com/
Nimby is useful as a political springboard and is fairly easy to jump on. Why is “Mac” the only one lining up to bounce on this board? Is the Wastewater overflow the part of the environment he wishes to “cut” And who writes the “debate” essays? Is it so new there is no comments?
So essentially, where are the links where one (like any of the candidates) become familiar with the issue. Where is any argument that can convince me (or anyone) that this is not a simple NIMBY wambulance ride?
The Puget Sound area as a whole does need large scale regional infrastructure to stop and eventually reduce sewer and runoff pollution. It even needs international cooperation to be effective. Vancouver BC dumping raw sewage has been debated for decades. They actually have more scientific backup than the massive amount of “treated” sewage King county dumps into the sound near alki.
http://www.seattlepi.com/specials/brokenpromises/288098_toxic10.asp
But saving the sound will actually take more than NIMBY not here arguments and a moratorium on efforts to reduce overflow events while that fix is imagined and made real, seems a bit short sighted. Maybe I am wrong, but I am not seeing any rational, long term arguments or details debated at the site cited.
The rant is ok, but liberals and Democrats usually include links to evidence or at least supporting documents. “Independents” seem to follow the wingnut mode and use the “Argument from authority” fallacy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
The state, city and county should be involved in the Puget sound cleanup effort as well as the Federal Government. But trying to paint a problem that is massive, historic and even societal, as a failure of one candidate, seems a bit like shooting a squirrel with buckshot. There is nothing left to eat.
— edit—
I see the front page of WSB has posted some of those links to information and alternatives. Lets all go learn what is possible and what is affordable. Thanks WSB
May 12, 2010 at 6:49 pm #694344
DuckitudeMemberWell, Ken, you can’t talk much about alternatives in the midst of gunfight. That would be like a little backwards, don’t you think? Let’s see, the gunslinger is shooting bullets and not listening to you say “whoa.” You have to stop the bullets before you can talk much.
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We have proposed tons of alternatives to KCWTD and if you can’t find them, I would be surprised. Read the Solutions page at http://www.SoundAngels.org for starters. Almost unanimously, the solutions are a bigger and better facility in Lincoln Park which almost unanimously all residents involved in both the Barton and Murray pump station areas would like because it could serve both pump stations in one spot, etc., etc.
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Yah, no one is debating at the debates pages at Sound Angels, so what’s with that, you wonder? Why aren’t you debating there? The chance to debate is there. Until people debate, I guess the solutions that are being offered by the Friends of Lowman Beach and Sound Angels must be undebatable? Not sure. Why don’t you start the debate there or contribute to the discussion?
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I would also recommend joining the group Friends of Lowman Beach Park because they have met (were you there?) and they are deep in discussions about alternatives.
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Again, however, I don’t know how to say this more clearly, there is not much use vetting alternatives while the current plans steamroll forward. The words are Moratorium and the Establishment of True Stakeholder Group. I don’t know what that team would come up with, but the indications are it would be quite different from what is currently being offered. I don’t care what the Team comes up with, but there has been NO TEAM EFFORT SO FAR. All the community is asking is for a voting place at the table. So far, all our elected officials are appalled at the KCWTD process so far, and how little, if at all, it has truly involved stakeholders.
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If you think this is NIMBYism, be my guest. There is so little of it going on in the members of Friends of Lowman Beach Park, that it is almost unmeasurable. I can’t speak for all of them, but for me, I can move anywhere I want, anytime I want, windsurf from any spot that is available. You really should read the About page again at http://www.SoundAngels.org
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If you don’t buy that, then, debating with you is pretty useless, because that would pretty much prove that you aren’t open to facts, but just want to make a point by using pejorative labels for those whose intentions are far, far from NIMBY.
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As for the candidates noted above. I stand by my remarks. They have had the opportunity to voice their support for establishing a stakeholder’s advisory committee for these tentative plans, but they have NOT weighed in. Those are the facts. I’m not endorsing Mac, I am just saying, and I think it is very clear, he’s been listening and learning.
May 12, 2010 at 7:02 pm #694345
CarsonParticipantDucky,
No offense, but if you can’t figure out a way to make your point in less than 2 small paragraphs you are just wasting your time. Just blah blah blah.
May 12, 2010 at 7:06 pm #694346
DuckitudeMemberMaybe you should give the same advice to Ken, eh?
May 12, 2010 at 7:10 pm #694347
CarsonParticipantDitto for you too ken!
Serious. If you ever want to get your point(s) across the first thing you need to do is make sure they are read. Both are just long rambles and way too long to even bother with. But thats just me.
May 12, 2010 at 7:56 pm #694348
DuckitudeMemberHey Carson: Will do my best on keeping it short. Take care, Ron
May 12, 2010 at 9:00 pm #694349
KenParticipantAnd I misused the comma too!
Typing into this little box and hitting post does not allow for the editing and condensing used to make an essay succinct rather than pedantic.
That’s the breaks.
Let’s see if I can gnaw my opinion on the CSO issue down to something easy to understand.
The buzzwords “stakeholder” and “moratorium” just plain set me off.
We are all stakeholders if we have a freakin sink, toilet and gutters. The government, whether it is city county or state, are the tools we wield collectively to finance, build and maintain the infrastructure needed since the days of moving the outhouse to a new pit every couple of years are long gone.
City and county are the agencies that will be in control of this infrastructure for the foreseeable future.
The drive to “Save Lowman beach” by moving the CSO to another location (another city park it seems)looks like NIMBY to me.
If it walks like a NIMBY, talks like a NIMBY, then chances are good that it IS a NIMBY.
(Pun intended)
http://soundangels.wordpress.com/
(excerpt)
Read my lips “Moratorium on all plans for Barton and Murray CSO facilities and back to the drawing board with true consultation and voting power of a stakeholders group.”
Otherwise, quite frankly, this group and many more individuals who are ready to join up, will make life as difficult as possible for any of the current plans to ever see the light of day. Are you listening, KCWTD?
One other thing — politicize this as much as you can. My current phrase goes like this “If [insert elected official’s name] is going to drag their feet on assisting this community to get what it unanimously wants, and, on top of that, force our residents to put out hard-earned cash and expensive time to get what is right, there WILL be a price to pay come the next election, period.”
The county has a place for your input.
http://www.kingcounty.gov/environment/wtd/Construction/Seattle/BeachCSO/SelectionProcess/Survey.aspx
If you don’t feel the other neighborhoods of Seattle can properly understand your need to make sure they accept your share of the pain involved then by all means taunt them again and again. I just put up with 7 years of construction so I could participate in the experiment which might be the future of stormwater control. Or not, the experiment is not over.
http://www.thehighpoint.com/expo/S_Natural.html
Dang. I went over the two paragraph limit again…
May 12, 2010 at 9:22 pm #694350
CarsonParticipantBlah blah blah, what did you say Ken?
May 12, 2010 at 10:54 pm #694351
KenParticipantMay 12, 2010 at 10:55 pm #694352
DuckitudeMemberKen: You just put up with seven years of construction? What went on?
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I don’t have a problem with pain for the right things… pain for nothing or next to nothing, that doesn’t seem so attractive. The reason I am so against siting such a facility in, on, and around Lowman Beach Park is they can’t build it big enough here, and they won’t get it through SEPA, period. They are going against their own studies related to vulnerabilities of such facilities.
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I guess you don’t get it on the NIMBY thing. Yah, there may be some in my neighborhood who wouldn’t want it here even if it is right. Maybe my landlord and other landowners, but, again, I don’t need to go through THIS pain of advocating for the right thing, which is turning into way more pain than I ever imagined for the purpose of avoiding a mess. Actually, personally, I will lose nothing if the build it here and build it big, tall, ugly, short or small. It doesn’t affect me personally. I will still windsurf the sound, sleep well at night, etc. I don’t use the park, itself, for anything personally except tennis now and then (and there are great alternative tennis courts just up the hill), but I see tons of people who do, and I do care about what they care about.
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Pejorative and off-point uses of the term NIMBY are a pretty transparent propaganda ploy. Sorry, it won’t stick.
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Hey, Carson, you should start a online “blah, blah, rating system.”
May 12, 2010 at 11:02 pm #694353
Geoffrey Mac McElroyMemberCarson… I’m going over the 2 paragraph limit here as well, but it’s only fair since the OP listed so much on the other candidates.
I find it interesting that member Ken not only misquotes me out of context, as did Publicola, but also questions my motives without picking up the phone to talk with me, or stopping by the Pub to ask me face-to-face what my thinking might be on the issues.
With regard to the Burien candidates’ forum, the question posed to us as candidates was: If you had to cut the budget in the next 2 years where would you cut it? Not: How would you raise additional revenue or how would you close loopholes to deal with the budget deficit? An audio recording of the Burien forum is available on the B-town Blog (who also sponsored the forum):
http://www.b-townblog.com/2010/04/28/photos-audio-34th-district-candidates-duke-it-out-in-burien/
I value a clean environment – a safe and healthy place that we and our children can enjoy now and for generations to come. However, if I had to choose OVER THE NEXT 2 YEARS between cutting funding for basic education, health care for children, or programs that make up the basic safety net of our society and keep families out of poverty, vs. placing a temporary 2-year moratorium on spending for environmental cleanup (“cutting the environment”), I would choose to fund those programs that provide the basic services that families in need must have in order to survive. That is the meaning and intent of my comment in its proper context.
Regarding Lowman Beach, Ken is off the mark. I’m involved because I’m listening to the voters of the 34th district – they care about this issue. And they care because the proposed CSO solution for Lowman Beach has lacked appropriate public input and would have a negative impact on public access to the shoreline and to the park which so many have valued for so long. Public access is one of the key tenets of the Shoreline Management Act. Voter concerns and values are issues that any viable candidate should be concerned with. We all should be concerned about the precedent here and ensure public access is maintained to our state’s shoreline areas.
At the end of the day it’s about people. People are upset, and I am listening.
’nuff said?
Geoffrey “Mac” McElroy
206.552.4098
May 12, 2010 at 11:03 pm #694354
CarsonParticipantDucky, I figure if you don’t care if anyone reads what you write, why waste even more bandwith?
May 13, 2010 at 4:19 am #694355
DuckitudeMemberActually, I am looking for an audience that has more than a 2 minute attention span… so, hmmm… think about it. This ain’t MTV, or am I from the MTV generation. Now, that should give you plenty to rant about.
May 13, 2010 at 12:59 pm #694356
CarsonParticipantDucky, if you want an audience with more than a 2 minute attention span I might suggest you try a place other than an internet forum….this is the instant on, Nintendo Generation. If you can’t make your point fast and quick you are just wasting your time.
May 13, 2010 at 2:25 pm #694357
KenParticipantActually, many in this forum are what you might consider old farts, who actually own books without pictures. Hundreds of them.
Amazon did not become a household word on the strength of dvd sales.
And it was several of us old farts that built the thing called the internet because we could puzzle out the arcane documents written by engineers and make it work. At least one of the regular posters here wrote the damn technical manuals you could not comprehend.
There is even a lawyer and published author in this thread.
Enjoy your ADD if you like, several of the best programmers I know have it bad, but that also means they can concentrate on DOCS and code to the exclusion of everything around them. Maybe you should try it.
May 13, 2010 at 2:36 pm #694358
CarsonParticipantKen, you might be an old fart, and I count myself in that group as well, but that still doesn’t mean you aren’t long winded and fail to make your point in a way it will ever be read. For example, check out West Seattle Blog http://www.westseattleblog.com. The Editors understand this all too well. You will see when they write a story they give you a quick, clean, concise breakdown of the story and if you desire more information on that story they allow you to click on the story to read more. But I am sure you have been doing this for years, so by all means, keep at it!!!
May 13, 2010 at 8:15 pm #694359
KenParticipantI am neither a journalist nor a politician.
If that is your website in your profile then I can see that neither are you.
Do you also believe that Mozart used “too many notes”?
This is the forums not the front page. I made that list for my own use to see what each Candidate had to say. I posted it in case anyone else had waited until the last minute to decide how to vote.
Apparently it was not useful to you but you had to whine about the length anyway. That made me assume you were either dimwitted, trolling or commenting on your own handicap.
Perhaps you could have commented on the nomination, the endorsement vote or even the CSO issue.
If you have anything useful to say, post a thread. Maybe I will go in and snipe about your brevity and lack of nuance… but I doubt it.
May 13, 2010 at 8:44 pm #694360
CarsonParticipantI suppose I have been called worse than a dimwitted, handicapped troll, so I won’t take any offense Ken. Keeping in mind this is a family electronic newspaper I will just keep quiet and let you clutter the space up.
May 13, 2010 at 8:57 pm #694361
JanSParticipantgeez, children…get back to the point. We all have different ways of doing things, and whether it’s short or long, make it interesting. And…for the rest of us, quit the sniping…and I say that in the nicest way :)You both have great input!
Carson…are we neighbors? I’m just east of Adm. Safeway…42nd SW…
May 13, 2010 at 9:08 pm #694362
CarsonParticipantJan, We, Carson and I, walk right by you almost daily, I am on 39th, close to Hooper!!! Carson did go to Muttley yesterday, so he doesn’t quite look the same today!
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