WEST MARGINAL WAY: Last call for comments on proposed bike lane

If you have something to say about SDOT‘s proposal to close the gap in the Duwamish River Trail with a two-way protected bicycle lane replacing part of a general traffic lane on West Marginal Way, time is running out. Tomorrow is the last day for nearby businesses to answer this survey; everyone else can send comments via WestSeattleBridge@seattle.gov. The latest updates on the proposal happened this week at meetings of the Seattle Freight Advisory Board and Maritime Town Hall. Those yielded some new information about what it would take to build the path in the sidewalk area on the west side of West Marginal south of the bridge – one of four options reviewed:

The sidewalk path, Option A, would cost $2.5 million, SDOT estimates – 80 percent of that because of utility poles that would have to be moved – compared to $400,000 for the in-street lane:

SDOT wants to build the in-street version, Option B:

The freight board opposes the bike lane and supports removing the “lane drop” by the Duwamish Longhouse, where part of the southbound outside lane was removed as an interim safety measure pending the future nearby crossing light, and some street parking was added. But the board supports the crossing improvements, noting in a November letter to city government that the crossing project is entirely separate from the bike-lane matter.

WHAT’S NEXT: SDOT says a decision memo will be “drafted” later this month, with a decision finalized in April. If the decision is to build the bicycle lane, that’ll happen in August, when a temporary version of the new crossing signal near the Longhouse goes in.

Allen Bushaw March 18, 2021 (8:01 pm)

My Dearest SDOT,
RE: “West Marginal Way”One simple question: Are you insane? This is ABSOLUTELY ridiculous.Real simple, I don’t need a bunch of propagandized maps and PowerPoints and bogus reasons for a Bicycle Plan on tax-payer CITY STREETS. How many cars vs bikes use this road? Come on, Man… you guys this April FOOL’s joke has gone on long enough. Haha,, Long-TIme West Seattle TaxPayer…. who has had ENOUGH of this city’s officials

spoked March 18, 2021 (8:44 pm)

Thanks SDOT, looking forward to this roadway improvement!

NorthAdmiralHalsey March 18, 2021 (9:19 pm)

I have just sent a message to WestSeattleBridge@Seattle.gov and encourage fellow drivers to do the same. The only sane compromise in this case is to defer such improvements until after the high bridge is restored. I drive this stretch frequently because of family medical requirements and – despite the assertions of SDOT – people do (and would use more) the second lane if we didn’t have the cutdown. If we eliminate the lane entirely back to the 5-way, there is a high risk of unintended consequences of jamming up the 5-lane, particularly on summer weekends when the crowds are trying to exit the island. To succumb to the bicycle lobby at the expense of the vast number of drivers who – like me – don’t have the choice of bicycling and can’t qualify for low bridge, is just not fair to the majority of WS.Commence car hating in 3…2…1….

Spoked March 18, 2021 (10:44 pm)

Sorry but you do not have more of a right to roadway than your neighbors who travel by bike. They also need safe and accessible routes.

Not car hating. I drive sometimes myself. But I disagree with entitled car driver perspectives, aka CBD.
- Patience March 19, 2021 (12:41 am)
  
  There is already a bike path on the east side between road and river, next to train tracks – we have been using it for years! It gets a little dicey for some in a couple spots along the trail, but not worth messing up someone’s drive (until now, that road was a more relaxing route home via car).When I ride, I use the path. When I drive, I want to use the road – unhindered by bicycles.
  - Spoked March 19, 2021 (3:17 am)
    
    You don’t sound like you ride this route regularly, nor that you have you read and understand the proposal. And, it won’t ‘mess up’ anyones drive. This is a fear drivers have, a knee jerk reaction to any road changes that is bike inclusive, and a perceived ‘war’ on their mode of travel.
    
    But these sorts of improvements aren’t just to benefit people on bikes, but ultimately benefit all who use the road.
    
    I’m starting to really see there is an issue with car drivers having an almost fragility when it comes to issues of roads and needs of other road users and pedestrians.
    - wscommuter March 19, 2021 (3:34 pm)
      
      I DO ride WMW trail often on my bike – and this idea is insane unless delayed until after the WSB is reopened. I see the car traffic both NB and SB at various times (at least daytime – I don’t ride down there at night). Anything that would adversely impact car traffic on this thoroughfare would be a terrible idea. The arrogance of some of my fellow bike riders who would impose this “solution” before the bridge is repaired amazes me. This is an underutilized bike route for obvious reasons – very few people need it for commuting (compared with the bike usage over the low bridge to access downtown and such). Conversely, WMW is a critical car route which, btw, also helps during this temporary period, by providing a route that doesn’t mean driving through the residential neighborhoods for Myers Wy., etc. I’m fine with SDOT planning ahead … but I would hope sanity would prevail in understanding that this project needs to wait a couple of years.
    - Spoked March 19, 2021 (8:32 pm)
      
      @wscommuter, these changes will be for the benefit of ALL road users, cars too, even if car drivers have a knee jerk reaction and feel like something is being taken away on the road and can’t see beyond that. It should actually have positive impacts for drivers. Also, this route is underutilized in part because it is not very bike or pedestrian friendly, which is part of the point, you see. Build it and they will come.
  - rpo March 19, 2021 (7:56 am)
    
    This isn’t about the section of road where the bike path exists. It’s about extending the bike path where it’s missing north of the Longhouse.
  - bill March 19, 2021 (10:12 am)
    
    Patience: You don’t understand. This is about linking the east side trail to SW Marginal Pl. This is the area where you have to ride on the west sidewalk with its blind driveways and poor condition pavement.
D March 18, 2021 (11:25 pm)

I agree! Wait until the bridge and other projects are finished before starting new ones!!!

ltfd March 18, 2021 (9:26 pm)

Don’t worry – it’s not a war on cars & commuters.

Reed March 19, 2021 (9:16 am)

Definitely not a war on commuters, because not all commuters drive cars. I commute by bike and 100% support this.

namercury March 18, 2021 (9:32 pm)

The sidewalk improvement plan is the obvious best plan. Bikers already have a path dedicated to bikes and the very rare pedestrians on most of West Marginal Way. The City and SDOT tout their “Vision Zero” plan to end deaths and serious injuries by 2030; however, Vision Zero is wide open to any interpretation SDOT chooses to make of it, including the dangerous option of mixing motor vehicle traffic and bikes on exceptionally traffic heavy West Marginal Way. Improvement of the existing reserved pathway and sidewalks is the obvious best alternative, especially considering the exceptionally light pedestrian traffic.

Spoked March 19, 2021 (3:29 am)

Not so. Read through the options and the work required.

The sidewalk option would involve taking out 38 mature trees, and be contending with some existing power poles, and just look at the cost difference:

Option A = $2,500,000
Option B = $400,000
Eddie March 19, 2021 (8:05 am)

In over twenty years of reasonably frequent bike riding on that sidewalk section, I probably encountered a pedestrian or bike a handful of times, and it was easy to slow/stop and maneuver around them. Please don’t spend millions cutting down trees and painting stripes to “fix” what in reality is not a problem at all. Get one person with a shovel out there to scrape the mud/leaves off the sidewalk in the one narrowest section, and put up a couple of signs.And once the bridge is repaired/replaced, and traffic levels return to “normal” on that road, take a fresh look at the need for bike/pedestrian improvements.
- M March 19, 2021 (9:45 am)
  
  Eddie, I completely agree. I drive and bike that stretch. It’s not a big issue to get on the sidewalk for a couple blocks. Been doing that 20 years as well, if not longer.
  - Spoked March 19, 2021 (10:09 am)
    
    Part of the point of this is to make it more accessible and safe for MORE people biking and walking. The current access is not adequate or safe for increased use, and not friendly for newer users.
    - Barton March 19, 2021 (5:47 pm)
      
      Is there really a lot of increased bicycle use other then perhaps temporary desperation relating to the WS Bridge (the people that I know started biking because of the bridge have no plans to keep doing so once the bridge reopens – it’s a stopgap only). They should not invest tons of $ for something that is going to become minimally used when the bridge opens (and sounds like it is minimally used now from the comments). I got an electric bike and, despite its ease of riding, there are many reasons why I would not use it for a regular commute. Despite years of trying to make biking a thing, it’s just not really happening because . . . Seattle weather, terrain, etc. Those unused bikes, scooters, etc. on every corner are so depressing, but that’s another story. It would be great if bicycling were “the answer” but it doesn’t even really seem to be a very large percentage of a likely solution.
  - Al be sure March 20, 2021 (7:57 pm)
    
    Eddie and M … I am finally hearing the voices of reason. Bless you. Now if only we can be heard.
- mark47n March 21, 2021 (8:22 am)
  
  The “it’s the way it’s always been” rationale is a terrible way to make decisions. Across a wide range of activities and public policies that has been disproven as an argument against change. If we accepted that reason of “it’s the way it’s always been” we’d still be living in caves, having slaves, women would not be able to vote, only property owners would have the right to vote…the list is endless.The purpose of this is to make cycling safer for ALL. Having rode this section many times I have had a close shave or two with cars trying to exit lots and pedestrians exiting businesses and stepping right out not that narrow sidewalk.Now, given that there is backstreet access via 16th from where bike jump off of the path towards the lower bridge this path connector could be shorter and 16th could see some improved maintenance but this still doesn’t get to the light to cross to the bike path. This shorter option is not addressed.

sbre March 18, 2021 (9:56 pm)

As an avid cyclist who utilizes this route multiple times a month AND as a car driver who does the same, I feel any improvements (which I am completely in favor of!!!) should wait until after the WS Bridge is reopened. Let’s not add more challenges to negotiating W Marginal Way, please!!!!!

Eddie March 19, 2021 (7:31 am)

Completely agree. I bike this area very frequently and drive it as well. The existing bike infrastructure is adequate and safe. The short section where no dedicated trail exists (from the stoplight north to the bridge) is on either low traffic street in front of the recycler or on the sidewalk. The car/truck traffic on west marginal is Angry and dangerous, but hopefully not permanent. There’s no reason to disrupt it further with construction, giving people reasons to disrespect cyclists any more than they already do.
reed March 19, 2021 (12:56 pm)

Both of these justifications are lame. What about individuals who are not yet “avid” cyclists who want to be (reducing the number of cars on the road) but need adequate infrastructure to get the saddle time and experience?
- Eddie March 19, 2021 (3:36 pm)
  
  In this situation, it’s a couple of blocks on a sidewalk. Suck it up. Great idea long term, but now, with the bridge as first focus, is not the time.
- wscommuter March 19, 2021 (3:38 pm)
  
  Your argument seems to be for that a statistically insignificant number of bike riders (and I’m one of them), we should adversely impact car traffic. This is not a route that bike commuters need in great numbers – it is in an indulgence for bikers. I’m happy to get that – down the road. After the WSB is reopened and traffic pressure dissipates on this route. Just common sense.
  - Reed March 19, 2021 (6:12 pm)
    
    And all the anti-bike lane comments are based on complete falsehoods that this will have an adverse affect on car traffic. SDOT came with credible data that says the complete opposite.
  - Spoked March 19, 2021 (8:40 pm)
    
    I do not agree that these changes will adversely impact car traffic. I believe it will actually help traffic flow, and be good for increased safety for all road users. So does SDOT, apparently. Please let the professionals do their job.

Derek March 18, 2021 (10:15 pm)

I’m so tired of cars dictating everything. If there’s more traffic then so be it. It’s time peoole adopted other methods of transportation than burning a hole into the ozone just to go around town.

Mel March 19, 2021 (5:18 am)

Your entitlement is showing. Many of us do not have a choice but to drive. Cycling and public transportation are not effective ways to get kids to appointments (which we frequently have) outside of west seattle. And whether you like it or not, roads were made for cars. More people are impacted by changes to lanes than will be impacted by any additional, or lack thereof, bike lanes. I’m concerned with global warming but there are many many ways to make improvements outside of trying to get rid of all cars. Seattle is too spread out and I’d have to sit on a bus for 2 hours each way with my young children to get to where we need to be each week.
- Spoked March 19, 2021 (9:45 am)
  
  Your entitlement is showing, many people do not have a choice but to bike or walk.
  
  ‘whether you like it or not, roads were made for cars.’
  
  And that statement is actually not true. Roads were originally developed by and for cyclists, before cars were prevalent.
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2011/aug/15/cyclists-paved-way-for-roads
  - mark47n March 19, 2021 (11:42 am)
    
    I have no idea how many times I’ve described the history of paved roads, thanks for doing it for me!Driving a car is not a right.
- bill March 19, 2021 (10:21 am)
  
  MEL: If more people felt comfortable biking then there would be more space in the general traffic lanes for those who claim “not to have a choice but to drive.” Bike improvements are a form of enlightened self-interest, similar to bus transit. Even if you don’t use the facility you benefit from having fewer cars in front of you on the road. (Are you still going to choose to drive if we get $4/gallon gas later this year? https://www.seattletimes.com/business/why-4-a-gallon-gas-may-be-coming-your-way-this-summer/ )
  - Mel March 19, 2021 (12:54 pm)
    
    Bill- yes I will still “choose” to drive. When my kids have medical appointments in north seattle or the Eastside, driving a car is the only way to get there.
    - Foop March 19, 2021 (3:26 pm)
      
      So why not fight /advocate for better transit option to get to north Seattle? You may not have the option not to drive now, but why not fight to give yourself more options? Why fight against initiatives that would open your roadways?
- Don_Brubeck March 19, 2021 (7:12 pm)
  
  The traffic congestion problem is not in the southbound lanes at the north end of West Marginal Way. The traffic congestion problem is at the First Avenue South Bridge and the intersection at Highland Park Way. Making it safer and more comfortable to ride a bike will get more people to cross the bridges using the pedestrian/bike lanes instead of in the traffic lane. More people on bikes gives congestion relief at the bridges for those who need to drive. The problem at the north end of WMW is speeding and reckless passes on the right that cause frequent crashes and injuries. The crashes can shut down not just one, but two or more lanes for hours at a time. Keeping it one lane for half a mile is one way to reduce speeding and reckless driving. This is worth a try. Now is when it is needed, while the high bridge is out.
- Don_Brubeck March 19, 2021 (7:21 pm)
  
  Mel, My daughter has to drive this route every day for medical treatments on First Hill, and I have to drive it frequently. But your entitlement is showing. More that 25% of households in some areas of West Seattle do not have a car and cannot drive at all. Bike riding and transit are their only options. People who are riding bikes and transit riding are freeing up space in the traffic lanes on the bridges for people who need to drive.
Rick March 19, 2021 (8:20 am)

Just as soon as Amazon delivers my Star Trek transporter. Which will come by truck! That’s the world we’re supposed to live in,right?

onion March 19, 2021 (6:58 am)

Our city’s bridges are in disrepair to the point of possibly falling down and this is our priority infrastructure response??! Absolutely insane. Once the upper bridge is back these bike lanes are a good infrastructure improvement, but madness before then.

Mark47n March 19, 2021 (7:46 am)

To those who rant about the bicycle lobby, and the the like: as a cyclist I have the same right to use the road as you. I am not obligated to use the path. It is my right to occupy my place on the pavement. We cyclists can ride two abreast and you may have to slow down and wait until you come to a place where you can safely pass us with 3′ of clearance. The whole point of protected bike lane is to not mix bicycles, cars/trucks, and pedestrians. Perhaps it’s time for some malicious compliance by cyclists. Bring back Critical Mass. Remind drivers that they are not the only users of the roads.I’m down with any changes that can improve cyclist safety and efficiency. The two lane/one lane lane on that short stretch before the Longhouse is already kind of stupid.

Kalo March 19, 2021 (7:50 am)

Should this lane reduction idea go through, PLEASE don’t do anything until the bridge debacle has been remedied. Also, going with Plan B (less expensive, $2.5M vs $400K) makes the most sense, as there is a real good chance it’ll all be undone a few years down the road once the full effects of this idea hits the fan!

rpo March 19, 2021 (8:01 am)

It seems most commenters don’t understand the section where a lane of traffic would be converted from cars to a bike path. This is the soundbound section where marginal goes from one lane to two lanes and back to one lane in a quarter mile. It would make that one lane until south of the longhouse where it then becomes two lanes all the way to the next intersection. It WON’t have any effect on traffic due to the road only having a short section of two lane throughout now. It WILL fill in a missing gap in the bike trail that doesn’t exist between the longhouse and the existing bike paths at the low bridge.

reed March 19, 2021 (9:24 am)

As the saying goes, you can’t fix stupid (or willful ignorance).
Lagartija Nick March 19, 2021 (9:30 am)

I completely agree and I would add that the majority of people who drive in the right lane in this very short section are speeding to illegally pass on the right which makes it more dangerous for everyone.
- Spoked March 19, 2021 (10:13 am)
  
  Yes, one goal of this project is to bring about some road calming.
- rop March 19, 2021 (11:36 am)
  
  EXACTLY. I have biked this section probably 50x over the past 8 years and using the two foot wide sidewalk for a couple blocks is not safe whatsoever with the driveways and blind street crossings, and neither are the speeding cars six feet away using the quarter mile dragstrip to pass the 95% who are already going 10 MPH over the limit and stick to the southbound left lane KNOWING the right lane ends immediately again.Either people don’t understand where this dedicated bike lane is planned or they are the drivers doing double the speed limit for 20 seconds in that right lane and then unsafely cutting back into the left lane at the longhouse…only to hit the red light at Highland Park a couple car lengths ahead of where they would have been.

DRC March 19, 2021 (8:01 am)

What’s wrong with the old path that’s is used now I used it . Why waste money on a new one that will hardly be used Gawd this city is so waste full.

Rick March 19, 2021 (4:19 pm)

It’s what they do best.
Don_Brubeck March 19, 2021 (7:16 pm)

DRC, this bike lane would only be to the north of the existing Duwamish Trail bike path, up to West Marginal Place.

abovealki March 19, 2021 (8:13 am)

The Seattle DOT simply doesn’t realize how much disrespect and public ill will they have created for themselves by their actions on this corridor. To wit: lowering the speed limit to 30 mph from the previous and reasonable 40 mph; and by refusing to remove the narrow section by the longhouse at least until the high bridge is repaired. And now, playing around with the bike lanes, which only serves to annoy the vast majority of drivers on this corridor. (And I am a frequent bike user of this route; it is FINE as is, at least until the traffic gets reduced by fixing the bridge.)

wseaturtle March 19, 2021 (8:45 am)

INSANE

Rick March 19, 2021 (9:21 am)

UTOPIA!

Spoked March 19, 2021 (9:53 am)

How many of you actually read the proposal, and with an open mind, before commenting here?

And all of you who say you regularly bike this and it’s just fine as is, I call bull.

http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/projects-and-programs/programs/bridges-stairs-and-other-structures/bridges/west-seattle-high-rise-bridge-safety-program/west-marginal-way-sw-improvements

zark00 March 19, 2021 (9:54 am)

First car vs bike post where comments from from pro-bike and pro-car are both calling this idea ridiculous considering the current state of our bridges. EVERYONE should make it clear to any city official or org they can contact – FIX THE BRIDGE NOW and stop everything else until that is done. Obviously the most expensive option, the off street trail, is the best option by a HUGE margin. Instead, of course, they recommend an option that has as much chance of making the corridor MORE dangerous to bikers as it does to make it safer. Scratch that – it’s abundantly clear that all scenarios except the off street trail are wildly more dangerous.

jb March 19, 2021 (11:04 am)

Since when does SDOT do anything that makes sense? The decisions that they have made since the bridge closed, has not made one bit of sense. Lets mess up the traffic more trying to get out of West Seattle or back. Fix the bridge first!

AL March 19, 2021 (9:56 am)

This is not a necessity- however, the bridge is. Please SDOT- fix the bridge before you improve or make a new bike lane. I have been traveling this road before the pandemic and during the pandemic- and the amount of bikers on this road is minuscule. Not to say not to fix/expand whatever- but the priority should be the bridge. This conversation should not even be a thing.

Benjamin March 19, 2021 (10:13 am)

I used to bike this area frequently, and would just “take the lane” in both directions as traffic was minimal. Now, with all the cars, the backups, the speeding? I am forced to use the bike path. Mostly, I loath “protected bike lanes” particularly 2 way lanes. But, for this situation, it seems like the best solution. All the drivers complaining just want to be able to speed to the next stoplight! Relax, you will get there! And it will still be backed up!

skeeter March 19, 2021 (10:24 am)

I’m sick and tired of sitting in traffic. I support more and better and safer bike routes so more people will switch to bikes and free up road space for people in cars. If you prefer to drive your car and not sit in traffic, please support more transit and more safe bike routes!

Mel March 19, 2021 (12:58 pm)

Are there statistics showing (in this city) that when Public transportation is increased, people will give up their cars? I’m genuinely asking because I’m not sure. I just know for me, even when I worked downtown, I drove because it was faster than sitting on a bus after dropping my kids at school.
- Foop March 19, 2021 (3:33 pm)
  
  https://www.seattlebikeblog.com/2019/09/27/census-survey-biking-walking-and-transit-up-as-commute-data-corrects-itself-driving-alone-down-to-44-5/
- Spoked March 19, 2021 (9:09 pm)
  
  These articles may be of some interest:
  
  https://usa.streetsblog.org/2019/04/18/ridership-jumped-400-when-seattle-built-a-protected-bike-lane/
  
  https://seattlebusinessmag.com/seattle-using-public-transit-more-ever

bill March 19, 2021 (10:32 am)

I participated in the West Marginal 500 yesterday. I was surprised that all the traffic – and it was heavy – stayed in the left lane through the zone the bike lane proposal targets. Not one car used the right lane to pass. Drivers have adjusted to not using the right lane. Traffic flowed along just fine without the right lane. As usual, as repeatedly stated by SDOT and perceptive commenters here, the bottleneck was at the intersection with Highland where I had to wait three light cycles. Drivers themselves have confirmed that the right lane is not needed in this section of Marginal.

rpo March 19, 2021 (8:54 pm)

Precisely. Thanks for pointing this out Bill.

VBD March 19, 2021 (2:18 pm)

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, make sure that whatever bike lane style is installed that it can be cleaned!!! Many of these “protected” lanes are not accessible by street cleaners. This particular road has lots of trucks that will fling the any debris over to the side, so it’s especially vulnerable to the problem. If the bike lane is not regularly cleaned it will become a trash accumulation area.

Ice March 19, 2021 (5:16 pm)

I like how you can tell that a big chunk of the commenters didn’t actually take the time to comprehend what is being proposed here.

Craig March 21, 2021 (8:30 am)

How hard would it be to close the targeted lane for a few days and actually see what happens during peak commuting hours?

Kathy March 21, 2021 (9:44 am)

The point of this project is to slow down vehicles to a safe speed. Any time you have two general purpose lanes in the same direction, many drivers start to behave irrationally, with speeding and unsafe passing on the right and left. In this case there is exceptional risk with this behavior because of truck traffic coming in and out of driveways. When driving this section I am frequently passed on the right by cars driving 10-20 miles over the speed limit. When we arrive at the light at Highland Park Way, there they are sitting in the lane next to me. They just burned excess fuel and increased the risk of collision for no apparent gain except the thrill of driving fast and getting ahead of someone else. The placement of a 2 way protected bike lane in the freed up right of way is an added benefit that provides a solution to the long identified gap in the bike network. It is a simple solution that will only take a few weeks to install and have minimal impact on vehicle traffic during construction. I would also like to see a lane reduction on the Admiral Way hill westbound between the WS Bridge and the Fairmount ravine bridge. Having two uphill lanes frequently causes the same irrational behavior with vehicles driving next to people biking in the painted lanes at speeds approaching 60 miles per hour. Eliminating one of these lanes would slow down vehicle traffic while also providing more space in the right of way for a protected bike facility for not just uphill but also downhill bike traffic on this critical corridor.

Sorry, comment time is over.