Sunday event asked: What do you want new 48th/Charlestown park to be?

If you can spare a few minutes between now and 2 pm, you can stop by the Senior Center of West Seattle lobby (4217 SW Oregon, just around the corner from the northeast end of the Farmers’ Market) and help plan the future park at 48th SW and SW Charlestown. The city bought the quarter-acre site [map] almost five years ago and has kept it “landbanked” since then, but now it’s time to turn it into a park. (You’re also invited to comment online, via this survey.) Today’s drop-in event was originally set for two weeks ago but the weather got in the way. Ed Pottharst from Parks (top photo) is there to talk with you. While we were there, several people were there to share their thoughts – and one dog:

You can also check out boards with potential park-design elements.

Me February 24, 2019 (11:11 am)

I’m with Izzy! Let it be a dog park. Thanks

Kimberly Rezentes February 24, 2019 (12:12 pm)

We need a dog park.

LisaM February 24, 2019 (12:08 pm)

Dog park for sure, its sooo needed

Law4all February 24, 2019 (12:15 pm)

Let’s have a people park! Knowing you live in a city with limited off leash area’s perhaps you shouldn’t have a dog. If you want support FIRST go after the pet owners that don’t follow the law. If all pet owners actually followed the law I’d have a lot more sympathy and would be willing to support more off leash area’s.

KM February 24, 2019 (2:32 pm)

Let’s apply this logic to everything we don’t like. I’ll start with cars.
- WS Guy February 24, 2019 (4:20 pm)
  
  That’s an exclusionary attitude. Parks should be welcoming spaces for all. Dogs create a hostile environment for some. Dogs make some people feel uncomfortable and unsafe.I don’t live anywhere near this park. But my philosophy is more important than what a nearby group of neighbors thinks.
  - Mike February 24, 2019 (7:27 pm)
    
    I don’t like people, but I love dogs. We should ban all people from parks, because people are annoying.
    - Black cat February 25, 2019 (6:24 am)
      
      Especially dog people

Melanie February 24, 2019 (1:38 pm)

I don’t own a dog, but would be happy to have this have an offleash dog run. Westcrest is too far and too creepy. And some seating outside the fence so I can watch them play!

CMT February 24, 2019 (5:09 pm)

I love Westcrest and don’t find it creepy at all. I go during the daytime and there are always tons of other dog owners there – most friendly.

buttercup February 24, 2019 (1:57 pm)

I think a pea patch would be terrific so that all the people of West Seattle can enjoy it, even if it’s walking by and enjoying the flowers and vegetation. I agree with law4all, to many people abuse it.Great place for kids learning farm to table lessons, seniors to enjoy.raised beds and an area with benches/tables and chairs so all could stop by with their coffee and chat with locals. That’s urban farm life. Love it.

Chuck February 24, 2019 (4:27 pm)

A pea patch was trialed here a number of years ago. There was only a handful of interested participants and it was abandoned and left to rot within months. The remnants are still there. Pea patches do well in population dense areas where there are a lot of multi-family housing (apartments/condos); residents who do not have access to gardening areas. High point has successful one. This plot of land is surround by blocks and blocks and blocks of single family homes with their own gardening space. It would not get used and become an eye sore.
- Karen February 24, 2019 (5:16 pm)
  
  The reason the gardens failed was because they were allowed to use water from a local apartment. When the water was stopped the garden failed. I was there. It was not abandoned and the gardeners were very sad when they could no longer get water. They would have gladly maintained the garden! They had no way to get water. I am at the Solstice P-Patch by Lincoln Park. We have a 4 year waiting time for a plot! Although I favor a dog park because of the small property, we desperately could use a P-Patch!
  - Lynn February 25, 2019 (3:34 pm)
    
    Karen, Agree with you. I was part of the Solstice P Patch but had to give up because i live in N. Admiral and going to and fro on weekdays after work was too much time investment. We don’t have any P-Patches up in the north end, closest one is by 42nd and Genesee. I spoke to Bunly today and he said the waitlist is currently over 100 people. I would love a P Patch here for those of us in the north part of W. Seattle.
  - Xyras February 26, 2019 (3:58 pm)
    
    The fact that they were relying on water from the apartment complex should have been a red flag to begin with. Last time I checked (when I paid my water bill), water in Seattle is expensive. An apartment complex has to spread the cost across all tenants. So while one or two units were using more water than the rest to water the pea patch, everyone else had to pay for it. It shouldn’t come as a surprise that it was stopped. If the rest of the immediate neighborhood wanted it to thrive it would have. The proof is in the pudding. So let’s put something in there that EVERYONE can enjoy one way or another.
- Lynn February 25, 2019 (4:46 pm)
  
  Chuck, i disagree with you. We have no P-Patches up here in the north end of West Seattle. There is one by 42nd and Genessee, another by Solstice Park. Both those locations are not truly surrounded by apartments or condos, populations that dont have access to gardening and yet the waitlist is over a hundred people at Genesee and over 4 years for a plot at Solstice. I had a plot at Solstice but had to give it up due to having to drive to and fro from North Admiral to that location, it was too much of a timesuck. The gardeners on the waitlists at both those locations are not all from the nearby vicinities. If a P Patch was placed here it would not go to waste since its such a large number of us seeking gardening space. The gardening community is huge in W. Seattle. Plus, the produce would help the local Food Banks. This is a positive way to give back to community.
  - Xuu206 February 25, 2019 (5:38 pm)
    
    So what you’re saying is that this space should be used by a handful of people who want to garden ~ at the expense of the hundreds/thousands of people (who have zero interest in public gardening) who could otherwise use this park, including all the people who will be put on a “wait list” that aren’t lucky enough to grab a plot of earth to til early? People who live by this park, and have been enjoying this “field” for generations, don’t want a pea patch! They have their own yards to garden in.
- Xuu206 February 26, 2019 (5:10 pm)
  
  #ChuckForSeattleMayor”!
  - Chuck February 26, 2019 (7:27 pm)
    
    Hahaha. Thanks for your vote XUU206. #Chuck2020. :-)
Lynn February 25, 2019 (3:31 pm)

I would LOVE a P Patch please. The closest one is by SW Genesee and 42nd Ave SW and it currently has over 100 people on the waitlist. The next closest p patch is by Lincoln Park. There is nothing close by for us gardeners in the north end of West Seattle.

Xuu206 February 24, 2019 (2:22 pm)

NO DOG PARK!! Clearly the people who want one don’t live by this location. Nor would they want one by their house. Imagine living next door to a dog park, trying to put a toddler down for a nap on a nice sunny afternoon. The relentless barking of playing dogs would decrease the quality of life for anyone living by it. That field has been used and enjoyed by people (with and without dogs) for generations and should continue to be used by people (with or without LEASHED dogs) for generations to come.

alki_2008 February 25, 2019 (2:55 pm)

Yes!.It’s not just barking, but also the owners calling their dogs’ names over and over. Dog parks are not quiet places..And the space on Charlestown is just too small. It’s less than 20% the size of the Westcrest dog area.

Mark Wilson February 24, 2019 (3:33 pm)

I would like a dog park. This would be closer to my home in North Admiral. My experience is that dogs do not bark very much in a dog park—they run and wrestle quietly mostly. Thank you.

David February 24, 2019 (4:01 pm)

I would like a grocery store or a serious electronics store like Jameco

Chuck February 24, 2019 (4:16 pm)

Let me start by saying I am a dog parent and dog lover. I have adopted five dogs from the Seattle Animal Shelter over the last 20+ years. I *ABSOLUTELY* believe West Seattle should have a dog park and I *ABSOLUTELY* believe there is a ton of demand for it. I understand peoples passion for their dogs and for the idea of a dog park in WS.

And it is exactly for that reason I think this is the wrong place for a dog park. Yep, I said it.

This location would be the only off leash area in West Seattle (with the exception of Westcrest park on the far east side of WS). As such the volume of dogs and owners wanting to use it would be very large. Too large for this small plot of land (If you review the off leash parks available in the city of Seattle you will note they are all one plus acres (some as large 3-4 acres). This site is just barely a 1/2 acre. It would be overcrowded and a mud bog in no time.

The majority of the dog park visitors would be coming from other areas of West Seattle, not just local neighbors walking their dogs to the park. These visitors would be driving there with their dogs. There is no on-site parking so it would create a lot of street traffic and parking issues for the properties surrounding it. Speaking of properties surrounding it…there are private homes surrounding it! Dog parks in the city are not located adjacent to private homes. Again, the volume of people and dogs using this one small lot would prove to be a nuisance for the surrounding homes.

It is for the above reasons that I think it is very unlikely the City will approve this as a dog park folks.

I totally support the idea of a dog park in West Seattle, really I do. But I think the bigger picture and the implications a year or two down the road need to be carefully considered and planned for.

I have long thought a dog park in Lincoln Park would make a lot of sense. A large area on the east side of the park (near the parking lots) could be fenced off. There are parking lots there already, there is more space, there would be no adjacent private homes, and it would not effect the wooded or waterfront areas of the park. It is also more centrally located to more WS residents.

Chuck February 24, 2019 (4:57 pm)

Correction. This lot is LESS THAN 1/4 acre…. .23 acre.
Tim February 24, 2019 (5:05 pm)

I agree with Chuck. I have owned dogs in West Seattle for many years and this little spot is a terrible place for a dog park. It is too small, and will be nothing but mud all year round. Plus, it is much too close to homes for the large, smelly dumpster placed at every other dog park.For dogs, I think someone had to convince the school districts to allow dogs. Either that, open up the larger parks, or just outlaw dogs in the city.Give the land to another small playground with some benches. It will be well used.
Xuu206 February 24, 2019 (5:38 pm)

I agree with you 100%. We’ve had dogs for 20+ years too, still do.

Lagartija Nick February 24, 2019 (4:27 pm)

Between this and the other stories about what to do with this space, it seems like every reasonable proposal so far has managed to offend someone.A dog park: too small, muddy, and noisy.A pea patch: too unsightly and only the renters would use it.A kids playground: too noisy and there’s another one within a mile.A sheltered picnic area: would just draw vagrants and there’s Lincoln Park if you want that.Here’s a proposal that’s sure to unite everyone.Make it a smoker’s park! It would be the only one of it’s kind. Smokers have been pushed out of every other park and shuffled out of doorways and off the streets. Bonus, it could be used by pot smokers too! No more wafts of the devil’s lettuce as you’re walking down your street. All of that unpleasantness could be contained in a nice little park away from your delicate eyes and noses. Besides smokers are people too and deserve the opportunity to partake in the great outdoors.For those who haven’t caught on, this is sarcasm. But I thought I’d put it out here so now all the NIMBY’s can unite behind one proposal to complain about.

NW February 24, 2019 (5:21 pm)

Smokers litter cigarette butts just walk down any busy sidewalk in the city of Seattle and look down for awhile look in the gutter won’t take long to see many. Go to Cal Andersen Park on Capitol Hill littered with cigarette butts everywhere. I understand what you say though about smokers being unwelcome in general but look at the litter you are producing litter that get drained into Puget Sound eventually.
- Lagartija Nick February 24, 2019 (8:04 pm)
  
  You missed the part where I clearly stated this was sarcasm.
  - NW February 24, 2019 (9:25 pm)
    
    Ok, but my message is out there none the less.

G Man February 24, 2019 (4:45 pm)

Hi Izzy, Lilly agrees, dog park! Let’s get enough surveys completed to make it happen

dunnkld February 24, 2019 (5:17 pm)

No off-leash dog park, for all the excellent reasons Chuck mentioned . It would be great if it could be a park where you can walk your dog (on leash) and share the space with others (kids, teens, adults). In other words, a park for everyone, and not just a select few.

Xyras February 24, 2019 (5:27 pm)

Surveys aside, a little reading about the site proposal on the SPR website reveals this little gem:”The design will incorporate accessibility in compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) as well as the intent to develop green space in identified gaps throughout the city. Use is restricted to low impact, passive recreation and impervious surfacing shall be limited to 15% or less.”Sorry folks, no dog park is going at that site. I like Chuck’s reasoned post that Lincoln Oark is far more appropriate. He’s right… there’s no place to park as it is. A dog park would be a disaster just for that reason alone.

Xuu206 February 24, 2019 (6:03 pm)

Exactly! So let’s hear some ideas of what this park *can* be.

uncle loco February 24, 2019 (5:31 pm)

I agree with David. That would be a great spot for a grocery store. That area has needed one ever since the IGA on California and Charleston disappeared.

West Seattle Hipster February 24, 2019 (5:58 pm)

I would like to see an off-leash park for cats.

Bjp206 February 24, 2019 (7:08 pm)

I 1000% support this. I have an overweight cat who would benefit from this immensely.
Mos February 25, 2019 (12:35 am)

This is a meowvelous idea. It could include a giant cat jungle gym with multiple oversized scratch posts. Maybe put a few bird houses just out of the kitties reach and designate a quarter of the park as a cat cuddle zone. And just as a bonus, kitties are much more dignified than dogs so they wouldn’t turn it into a mud pit!
Que February 25, 2019 (8:23 am)

100% agreed this is the purrrfect spot for a cat park.
alki_2008 February 25, 2019 (2:58 pm)

Grand idea! There won’t be problems with barking or owners calling their cats, because cats won’t respond anyway. The only noise would be a few quiet meows and the shaking of kitty treat bags, as the latter is the only thing some cats respond to.

Azimuth February 24, 2019 (6:09 pm)

I’d really like to see a dog park in the north half of West Seattle too but then again I don’t live next to this location.

Dumbo February 25, 2019 (6:27 am)

Isn’t Lincoln Park a dog park?

Airwolf February 25, 2019 (9:02 am)

a couple of indoor tennis courts

Oldster February 25, 2019 (10:26 am)

Actually-it WAS a grocery store! “Lo-Mart” was there for many years. It was good sized also. Where the apartment building is was a full service gas station.

Ronda S. February 25, 2019 (10:41 am)

I would just love a safe, fenced play area for my awesome son who happens to have autism. A park that is safe and accessible for all kids would a wonderful addition to WS.

Xuu206 February 26, 2019 (11:50 am)

Rhonda- this is an excellent idea! I hope they can incorporate a “containable” kid space for not just kids w special needs but would benefit parents of toddlers as well. We don’t have kids w special needs, or kids at home anymore~ they grew up playing in that field tho!! I hope it ends up like something like the park @ Beveridge Pl park (excellent suggestion Chuck!) with a dedicated play area for children.I look forward to our new community park. :)

Chuck February 25, 2019 (12:11 pm)

As Xyras mentions above this park is designated: “Use is restricted to low impact, passive recreation and impervious surfacing shall be limited to 15% or less.”. Things like tennis courts, play fields, dog parks, etc are active recreation facilities. This residential lot is small (under 1/4 acre) and in the middle of a residential neighborhood which dictates the passive recreation designation. And of course it is public land purchased with Parks Dept funds so grocery stores or other private development is not a consideration.