Will sign stop rulebreaking dog owners? Pigeon Point NC hopes so

The photo is courtesy of Pigeon Point’s Pete Spalding, who explains:

One of the issues the Pigeon Point Neighborhood Council has been looking for ways to address has been the ongoing issue of folks letting their dogs run loose at the fields at Pathfinder School. One of the ideas discussed at our last meeting was putting up a sign. Here is the sign.

West Seattle’s official off-leash area is at Westcrest Park (map and info here).

101 Replies to "Will sign stop rulebreaking dog owners? Pigeon Point NC hopes so "

  • Pigeon Point Dog January 7, 2015 (9:23 am)

    Are you allowed to put signs on Seattle School Property?

  • miws January 7, 2015 (9:44 am)

    Dunno about that, PPD. But even if not, I’d say the larger violations are the dogs being off-leash, and poop not being picked up.



  • DAISY January 7, 2015 (9:47 am)

    if this is your only concerns! Many dog owners are responsible and pay property taxes, worry about homeless encampments, garbage, drug paraphenlia, not just focus on someone who probably stepped into it and is making an exaggerated issue! Get a life. By the way…can we defer property tax dollars to off leash park, I am sure there are more responsible dog owners than playground/school occupants

  • carolei January 7, 2015 (9:52 am)

    I hope the sign has an effect. It is so unfair to people who are walking their dogs on-leash to have to come across unleashed dogs. I have this problem in my neighborhood and I’ve thought about putting up signs. Please be considerate of other dogs and people and keep your dog on leash outside of the off-leash areas.

  • Eric January 7, 2015 (9:57 am)

    Just leash your dogs. That simple. Pick up poo. Don’t go on beach. Leash your dogs.

  • WestSide45 January 7, 2015 (9:58 am)

    Nice sign. Doubtful it will have any effect. If someone has their dog off-leash and witnesses said dog relieving himself 200 yards away, do you really think they’d run over there, put a plastic bag on their hand, and pick it up? That’s something a responsible person would do, not an ordinance breaker.

  • G January 7, 2015 (10:02 am)

    Just follow the laws, people. Why is that so difficult around here?

  • LBJ January 7, 2015 (10:07 am)

    The need one of these as South Seattle College and Forest Lawn Cemetery as well!

  • Pigeon Point Dog January 7, 2015 (10:10 am)

    I think everyone can agree about picking up your poo, but i live in the neighborhood and dont have a problem with people letting their dogs off leash there. Out-side of school hours, the field hardly gets used. If you’re a responsible dog owner, why not put the field to good use?

  • 4thGenWS January 7, 2015 (10:13 am)

    Until it actually get’s policed and people start getting fines, they will just ignore the sign. These people already know the rules. This just choose to ignore them. Only thinking about yourself and not caring about anyone else seems to be normal thinking for many these days.

  • Exhausted January 7, 2015 (10:22 am)

    I get the pick up after your pet thing, but the sentiment against dogs and dog owners has gotten a little out of hand. Now it’s almost impossible to even let your dog fetch a ball without cell phone heroes or neighborhood watch “dogs” running up on you as if you were a menace to society. I let my dog off for a fetch, nothing else, and when no one is around. Yet even that is unacceptable. Pets are living creatures. They need to run. (Let the off leash chorus begin, it’s not always just around the corner.)

  • trickycoolj January 7, 2015 (10:46 am)

    LBJ doubt the cemetery will be a problem soon. They have been building their road out into the empty field looks like they might start putting graves out there.

  • HelperMonkey January 7, 2015 (10:48 am)

    *grabs popcorn*

  • Rick January 7, 2015 (10:51 am)

    I need one of those cute little dog pooping inside a red circle with the red line through it for my front yard.

  • Uhhuh January 7, 2015 (10:52 am)

    So Exhausted, is it okay to speed down a road above the posted limit as long as no one else is there?

    Solution: Create 2-3 off leash only parks in each area of the city and then they won’t be using our parks for this. Because really, even if you’re responsible and pick up after your pooch, will you get 100% of it or will some remnants still be on the grass? The same grass kids will tumble around on 30 minutes later…….

  • Nancy Folsom January 7, 2015 (11:11 am)

    There is a wonderful, and legal, off-leash park called Westcrest dog park in Highland park. That is paid for by everyone’s taxes, including those folks who do not love dogs.

    I’m a dog person. Have a dog. Have had dogs. Love, love, love dogs. However, I’m baffled why people get so upset when they are asked to not let their dogs off leash except in designated areas. It’s common courtesy. Let’s give the people who do not love our dogs as much as we do a break. It’s a simple fact that people do not reliably pick up after their dogs in not-really off-leash areas. I’m sure the people commenting here do, but you’re in the minority.

    Here are a few reasons to respect the law: there are legal and safe alternatives in the city’s off-lease park. Dog feces are not healthy. Even after they’re picked up, they contaminate the soil. Consider a toddler running and falling in the grass shortly after my dog’s pooped in the same place, even if I’ve picked it up. In my yard, it’s one dog who is tested annually for parasites; in a public park it’s many dogs with varying degrees of attention from a vet with regard to parasites. Stepping in dog poo is not trivial. As anyone who’s tracked it into their car our house knows. When my dog is in a park or on school grounds, I’m keeping other people from using it. Parks and play areas are not, usually, securely fenced and so dogs can get loose which isn’t safe for them and other people or dogs. My dog is an individual. While I know pretty well what his reactions will be with people and animals, I do not know absolutely, and I never forget he is a _dog_ with a dog’s understanding of threats and friends and foes.

    Whether we like it or not, it’s the law, and people who are inconvenienced by law breakers are asking us to at least clean up after our dogs, which is nice of them.

  • Nancy Folsom January 7, 2015 (11:13 am)

    There isn’t some war on dogs and dog owners. There is a growing sense of frustration about loose dogs where there should not be loose dogs.

  • carolei January 7, 2015 (11:30 am)

    @Exhausted — I am a dog owner and my sentiment is definitely not against dogs and dog owners. When I want my dog to run off-leash I go to Westcrest. But when I am walking my dog on-leash in the park in my neighborhood and my dog sees another dog running loose she gets extremely agitated. She is a fabulous rescue dog and we have worked hard on positive training. She deserves to be able to go for a walk in her neighborhood without having to confront loose dogs.

  • ChrisW January 7, 2015 (11:36 am)

    After myself and my kids being rushed by many dogs that are off leash, with a trailing owner saying “She’s really friendly!” – when we are simply walking across the street to go to a school function, I am ready for some lawfulness.

    It’s a city law. It’s school district policy. If you don’t like it, bring it up to the city and the school district and fight for it…but until then, don’t put my kids walking across the field.

    Oh, and DAISY, your statement, “I am sure there are more responsible dog owners than playground/school occupants” sucks. If that is your view, you should try getting to know the Pathfinder community. They are amazing.

  • ca January 7, 2015 (11:41 am)

    I agree exhausted, and I totally get pickup the poop but I don’t think anyone will ever stop that. These rules weren’t around in 80s & 90s now too many people have too much time on their hands. I let my dog off when no one is around or maybe 1-2 people to play frisbee or fetch or just run. Quit being so uptight and worry about other things, not all dogs are bad. And how about the sign did school authorize that? Who really has that amount of time to complain about poop and make that sign….sigh….

  • Seatown January 7, 2015 (11:54 am)

    I’ve stepped in dog poo two times already this morning! It’s not only a law to pick up after your pets, it’s common courtesy and not being a slob. I have two dogs, who are great with people and kids…not always great with other unknown dogs…a few years back a off leash dog rushed us at a park (not off leash park) my dogs reacted defensively, before I could seperate them they injured the other off leash dog requiring a trip to the vet and stitches. I have a handful of lawyers in the family and contacted them about liability in this situation.
    I found that not only was the off leash dogs owner the responsible party for the incident, but that I also had legal recourse to go after the other dogs owner. The leash law is also in place to protect your pets.

  • Oakley34 January 7, 2015 (11:57 am)

    As a dog owner I’d say we need MORE signs all over the sidewalks and lawns of WS reminding folks to scoop the poop. It is more than a nuisance…it is a quality of life issue and at it its core a respect issue. People who let their dogs shit all over the place and don’t pick it up have no respect for their neighbors or their neighborhood, and WS is full of em (I’m guessing most of USA is full of em, but THIS is where I live). I think the sign is great…more signs…more respect…less s–t.

  • Anne January 7, 2015 (12:07 pm)

    Yes-what is so hard about following the rules-even if no one is around? You don’t want leash laws-try changing them instead of just deciding they don’t apply to you–how selfish!
    Fairmount Park is another example-signs on fences around park-dogs must be on leash-but regularly see people there with their dogs off leash.Yes-lets talk about poop too-
    some of these parks-like Fairmount- are places where kids practice & play soccer & baseball- or maybe just come to play-why should they have to dodge dog poop?
    Don’t think it’s a matter of” being uptight” or “not having a life”-just follow the rules people-or change them!

  • Sarah January 7, 2015 (12:17 pm)

    I’m noticing a theme that I’ve seen in several different topics here. It’s ok to disregard a law if we don’t agree with it.

  • Pigeon Point Don January 7, 2015 (12:30 pm)

    Rules are rules, take down the sign!

    And what about all these cats running around the neighborhood? Can we get a sign for that?

  • JoB January 7, 2015 (12:37 pm)

    responsible dog owners don’t think that paying taxes gets them a pass on picking up their dog’s poop..
    they don’t think that paying taxes gives them the “right” to let their dog run off leash outside of their own fenced property and/or the local dog park.
    responsible pet owners care more about the safety of their pets than that..

  • Rover January 7, 2015 (12:42 pm)

    If you adopted a high-energy dog it is your responsibility to exercise the dog legally. If you are too lazy to drive to an off leash park or to go jogging with your dog then you made a big mistake. Children should not have to worry about stepping in dog poop. Responsible dog owners should not have to worry about their aggressive dog being approached by an off leash dog. Even if nobody is around you still have to keep that space available for those who want to use it legally. If you can’t do that you made a big mistake getting your dog in the first place.

  • Phobic January 7, 2015 (12:46 pm)

    My toddlers have been charged and knocked down enough times by friendly off-leash dogs 3 times their size at Fairmount Park and just walking down the sidewalk that they are now terrified of them. Nothing wrong with dogs acting like dogs, but there are leash laws for a reason. Was told by someone at Animal Control that it’s illegal to bring dogs on playgrounds/playfields like Fairmount (even with a leash) because it’s a health issue and that pet owners should know that. Not sure how they would since that law doesn’t seem to be enforced.

  • sam-c January 7, 2015 (12:53 pm)

    I like the sign- very noticeable. SPS has their own signs noting the same info but apparently everyone ignores them. I usually laugh at them cause they point out that pot-belly pigs are not allowed on school property either.

    If you don’t have time to drive to Westcrest to go to a legal OLA, walk your dog around the neighborhood, on leash, or run around and play in your own yard. if it’s too hard for you to follow these rules, maybe you shouldn’t have a dog.

  • Hmm... January 7, 2015 (12:55 pm)

    I love the argument about it being a “law”, as well as everyone here that is a fully “law-abiding” citizen. I’m sure that all of you that respect “the law” never do anything that would violate it. You all drive under the speed “limit”, you all pull permits on home projects when required, you never cross the street unless in a cross walk, you all pay the state the appropriate use tax on internet goods you buy from other states that don’t charge you Washington state sales tax. Should I keep going?

    I think we should all take a step back and consider our own daily actions before acting all self-righteous to others. I’m not even making a case one way or the other in this fight; I am just calling for a little self-reflection before throwing out absolutes and acting like we live in a world where everything is black and white.

  • datamuse January 7, 2015 (12:59 pm)

    I am sure there are more responsible dog owners than playground/school occupants
    That’s an interesting remark. Can you elaborate?

  • Brian January 7, 2015 (1:00 pm)

    I agree with Nancy Folsom. I’ve had dogs all my life, and still do. But, as a lawyer, I’ve represented several victims of dog maulings, even including a PD canine trainer. I’ve had to stop walking through Schmitz Park due to off-leash dogs, which can be very threatening when you don’t know that dog at all. A few years ago, elementary students at one of our local schools found Fauntleroy Creek polluted with dog pee and feces. That’s what we need, don’t you think–more dog pee and dog feces on Alki Beach where families are playing, and in our streams? Come on folks, it’s just a simple matter of respect for each other. And it’s very easy to solve the problem if you treat others with respect.

  • Elizagrace January 7, 2015 (1:06 pm)

    The poo problem is a really crappy problem to step in.

    In my recent walks with the new addition to our family I have strolled through poo remnants and just straight poo that was left for the rain to wash away. Real s—ty situation.

    This isn’t even in the parks since he isn’t into off-roading yet, but sidewalks of WS.

    This stroller is then in and out of the trunk of our car… with the crap we picked up on our walk. Not fun.

    This is the definition of “ain’t nobody got time for that” – read: I do not want to make the time to clean up more crap than I already do with a newborn – he has me up to my ears in baby poop – please don’t add to the problem.

    That is what my sign would say – “I throw away my son’s diapers – toss your dog’s crap in the can.”

  • Rover January 7, 2015 (1:33 pm)

    It is true that many complainers also bend the rules and don’t follow the law to the letter. Driving too fast and having work done on your home without permits are great examples. However, it doesn’t seem like these other issues are a concern for the community like this is. I don’t see any blog posts on those issues that get 30 responses.

    • WSB January 7, 2015 (1:53 pm)

      Rover – just a datapoint since you mention it, the WSB Forum has had many discussions on speeding, and off-leash dogs/dog waste for that matter. FWIW. We also discussed speeding more here in the news section back in the day when SPD Blotter routinely posted what the Aggressive Driving Response Team was finding with speeding crackdowns (they haven’t been publishing that for some time) – 45 comments, for example, on this one:
      Work done on your home without a permit? People tend to just take that straight to DPD. Although I can think of a few cases of “work on house” that did draw attention, regardless of permit status, such as the carver just west of West Seattle Nursery …
      Anyway, whatever the concern or issue, we always highly recommend working with your local community council, and that’s exactly what happened here.

  • Chrisw January 7, 2015 (1:38 pm)

    As to Pigeon Point Don’s statement on cats, here’s a link to the City of Seattle’s policy: http://www.seattle.gov/animal-shelter/animal-control/outdoor-cats

  • Chrisw January 7, 2015 (1:49 pm)

    Ummm, Rover, you aren’t seeing any of those complaints because they aren’t really relevant to the topic at hand…

  • Wes C. Addle January 7, 2015 (2:13 pm)

    I agree with @hmmm
    I have no dog in this fight either. (although I love dogs)
    I’ve had to stagger around flattened poop piles around the Admiral/California sidewalks all week, barely missed a few by inches.
    Some people choose to not follow laws that they believe are unjust. There are plenty of laws I personally follow, but there are also some laws that are utterly ridiculous that I ignore. If someone or myself chooses to break the law and get caught there are consequences and I will gladly accept them.
    People just need to be considerate. If you’re breaking a rule/law and someone calls you out . . comply and move along IMO

  • Pigeon Point Dog January 7, 2015 (2:18 pm)

    Alrighty, chrisw, how about all these illegal signs in the neighborhood?

  • Me January 7, 2015 (2:24 pm)

    The problem I see is how often does the picked up poop make it to a garbage can? I walk all over West Seattle, that’s simply my choice of transportation. I’m amazed at how many of those green poop bags I see on the sidewalks or just tossed off to the side. It’s as if the dog owner saw someone seeing their dog poop so they know they have to pick it up. After a short distance the dog owner tosses it aside. That drives me nuts.
    Don’t even get me started on how the same is starting to happen on popular trail hikes like Tiger Mountain or Mt Si.

  • me on 28th Ave SW January 7, 2015 (2:38 pm)

    I have noticed a marked uptick in the crap on sidewalk phenomenon as well. This is in the Alaska junction neighborhood, especially on California.

  • stb January 7, 2015 (2:43 pm)

    Me, I was just about to make the same comment. I walk my dog on-leash, always have poop bags handy, and always pack them out. I see poop bags left by the sidewalk and cannot believe people have the nerve to do that! It just shouldn’t be that hard to have some consideration for one’s neighbors and to be a responsible dog owner.

  • Diane January 7, 2015 (2:57 pm)

    LOVE the sign; would love to see this replicated all over West Seattle
    totally agree with Nancy Folsom and Elizagrace and Brian comments; as an early childhood specialist, this is a big deal issue related to child safety/health; it makes me cringe whenever I see parents let their young children roll around on grass that I know is covered in dog pee and fecal residual; or when they put a baby down to play in that grass; I won’t even walk on grass in the parking strips because I see all the dogs in my neighborhood (most on leashes) poop & pee dozens of times per day; it would be nice to at least have school grounds and parks where children can play freely on the grass without rolling around in dog poop
    and off-leash dogs can be a danger to children as well as adults; as Brian noted, dog maulings, even a “minor” dog bite, put people/kids at risk; fear of dogs can be a deterrent to humans using school grounds and/or parks

  • Homeowner/PTSAmember January 7, 2015 (3:14 pm)

    As a kindergarten-8th school with educational time in the greenbelt, a working garden, and a field — we track dog poop in and meet off-leash dogs. We also twist our ankles in their dig-holes during PE. This is educational property. The kids get priority. As a homeowner in the area — I can’t play in the field when there are loose dogs running at/after my family.

  • kevin January 7, 2015 (3:21 pm)

    i know several people who have been bitten by off-leash dogs. last weekend i saw a woman with two off-leash dogs bounding down the steep cliff trail at lincoln park, almost knocking over people on the trail. the defiant attitude that this dog owner displayed when confronted about the dangers of being knocked down the bluff by their dog was insane. i know that people like this ruin it for everyone else, but, frankly, it is ruined. keep your dog on lead. i wish there was better enforcement for this.

  • ketchup January 7, 2015 (3:52 pm)

    Pigeon Point Dog the reason the field is mostly unused is because of the unleashed dogs there. I don’t know how many times I’ve gone to use the field with the kids only to be run off by unleashed dogs. Also keep your dogs leashed in the greenbelt. Cheers.

  • Yes I Love Dogs January 7, 2015 (4:03 pm)

    We stopped going to Lincoln Park because so many people with “friendly” dogs let them run amok. The last straw was 2 guys with a loose dog aggressively jumping, barking and growling at our 2 very old and LEASHED dogs. We asked nicely that they control their dog and they basically told us they’d do what they wanted. As many have posted GO TO THE OFF LEASH PARKS if you don’t want to leash them, play ball, etc. or stay in your own contained yard. Why this even is an issue I’ll never understand. Be responsible!

  • quiz January 7, 2015 (4:22 pm)

    Came here for the complaining. Wasn’t disappointed.

  • Chrisw January 7, 2015 (4:46 pm)

    Pigeon Point Dog, I am not familiar with what the city code states about signage… But the issue here isn’t really the sign… It’s about the city’s off leash law and the use of the Pathfinder and green space area. I feel like you are trolling me into an argument that takes away from the more topical discussion here.

    The sign has brought up public awareness and has encouraged public discussion and awareness…which is the sign’s intent.

  • Brick Tamland January 7, 2015 (4:59 pm)


  • Timothy Stone January 7, 2015 (5:24 pm)

    I bet it will cause more dog owners to leash their pets, but they still may not clean up after them, unless someone is watching them.

  • Rover January 7, 2015 (5:55 pm)

    Ummmm Chrisw
    I was replying to the comment by Hmmm, who had a good point about speeding in residential zones and unpermitted construction.
    I’m simply observing that this seems to be a bigger concern for many in our community, compared to the issues that Hmmm used as an example. However I stand corrected by WSB.
    Regardless people who run their dogs off leash in the school yards are very inconsiderate as many have stated.

  • Pigeon Point Dog January 7, 2015 (6:06 pm)

    Just sayin, stevew, rules are rules, right? Doesn’t seem fair that I have to wear a leash, but you can just put a sign up anywhere that you feel like.

    I too, am just trying to bring public awareness to an issue that I feel passionate about.

  • Mike January 7, 2015 (7:08 pm)

    Leash your dog, pickup the poop, respect everyone you live around. I leash my dog and pick up her poop. It shouldn’t even need to be a law. It’s common courtesy.

  • Canyon Road January 7, 2015 (7:58 pm)

    SO FUNNY that the Comments section of basically all stories on the WSB that have to do with dogs immediately becomes a vent-pit for complaints about off-leash dogs and unpicked-up-poop.

    Anyone besides Pigeon Point Dog want to consider the “news” at hand here? That a neighborhood group decided that their pet cause (pun intended) was important enough to “entitle” them to place a semi-permanent (wood, exterior paint) sign on property not belonging to them? Not a lawyer, but I am sure that the Seattle School District or Seattle Parks & Rec (not sure which body governs the chain link fence onto which this plea was installed) does not allow citizens to do this to their structures — no matter how virtuous one’s cause.

    I think that the relevant Seattle governmental entity should remove the sign and cite the offenders, who seem pretty proud of their actions (if they’re photographing them and submitting them to the WSB). Why can one group of citizens break a law to shame other citizens breaking another law?

    If the aggrieved folks wanted to affect REAL change, they’d take shifts going out into the field and greenbelt during prime-use hours and respectfully and kindly talk to off-leashers one-on-one. A civil, educational conversation would go a long way toward changing behavior. But the sign-makers here took the shaming route, instead. Why? Because this is Passive Aggressive Seattle.

    If the sign remains, then I shall feel entitled to artfully address violations that I feel particularly irked by in the same manner. In my mind I’m already at work sketching out “FYI” signs like this about other violations that seem rampant in Pigeon Point — littering in the field, speeding (school buses regularly going 30+mph down the side streets), failing to stop for school children crossing the street at Genessee & 20th), and fireworks.

  • Kate January 7, 2015 (8:01 pm)

    Just almost had a run-in with an off leash lab on Oregon and 45th. The guy seemed to be training it, and the dog was somewhat behaved but our leashed pug was not happy. Neither was I after waiting 3-4 minutes for him to get the dog under control and cross the street so we could continue.

    However, I really wanted to comment to the “just drive to the dog park” commenters. If you don’t have a car, Westcrest requires a long walk and a bus transfer. This is from the Junction, considered to be a transit hub, and quite inconvenient. I still wonder if there was a dog park closer to WS proper, there’d be less off leash offenders…

  • Mike January 7, 2015 (8:14 pm)

    Kate has a point about having a park closer that allows dogs offleash. Westcrest gets packed with people at times too. What about a pay to enter park? Some parks run by King County, state and fed require parking fees. I could easily pay $1-2 for a visit to run my dog leash free in an enclosed area that’s safe for my dog and not bother people who don’t want a slobbery hairball approaching them. Where is there land big enough to support that though?

  • Muffaluffagus January 7, 2015 (9:37 pm)

    Thanks Canyon road!

  • datamuse January 7, 2015 (9:48 pm)

    Canyon Road, has it occurred to you that maybe people have tried being polite?
    What you’re seeing here is what happens when that approach doesn’t work.

  • 2 Much Whine January 7, 2015 (10:23 pm)

    Perhaps we should have a toll booth of sorts coming into West Seattle where everyone must sign their name in blood to a document that states:
    No dogs off leash
    No dogs on beach
    No poop without pickup and disposal
    No pot in public
    No smoking in parks
    No outside cats
    No touching the seals
    No chasing geese
    No speeding up Admiral
    No parking in front of a house that isn’t yours
    No driving into dead ends unless you live there
    No micro housing
    No valuables in cars
    No murder, rape, extortion, misdemeanors or felonies
    No Gluten
    No kids in restaurants
    No dogs in restaurants
    No flashers
    No building without a permit
    No tattered American flags
    No fireworks
    No Blue Angels
    No new buildings that we don’t like
    No more pizza, burger, Thai restaurants
    No more nail salons

    That about covers it. Then we’d live in a pretty cool place.

  • Wild One January 7, 2015 (10:24 pm)

    Excellent observations Canyon Road.
    It really is amazing how many negative attitudes are attracted to this issue.
    That being said, I wholeheartedly agree with the last two lines of the sign though.
    Be a responsible pet owner. Control and clean up after your dog.. and to add to that…
    Also clean up your litter and respect the other people who use the beautiful green space, many of whom have dogs.

  • Christine January 7, 2015 (11:07 pm)

    I am definitely for more dog parks. I don’t have a dog but 2 anxious kids that stop playing and start hiding behind me whenever an unleashed dog is in sight. We don’t have a yard, but like playing outside at Camp Long, Alki, Lincoln Park, Delridge, Roxhill, you name it, we play there – and there is not 1 single day where we don’t run into unleashed dogs.
    If the owner is close by at all times and super reactive and engaged with the dog and calls it or puts it on a leash right away when he sees we are uncomfortable, I really appreciate that, but very often the owner does not care, does not watch or is far away and then I get scared, too. I prefer dogs on leashes at all times, but really, if your dog does not listen to you immediately, it’s pretty irresponsible to have it run unleashed. I can’t tell how friendly your dog is and for us as a family this ruins an outing. We usually leave the park. I am not the confrontational type – so that’s our only option at this point. As someone walking your dog unleashed, do you think this option is fair to us? Is it our fault to have a natural fear of dogs and not wanting to risk running into a bad situation? About the anxiety – both my kids saw how someone was bitten in a park – once at Delridge and once at Highland Park.

  • Elle Nell January 7, 2015 (11:12 pm)

    AweSOME sign!! Thank you!! As a parent of Pathfinder, I can’t tell you how many times I have be charged and almost charged by entitled dog walkers. During school hours and evenings when kids are clearly present. They stroll through like they own the place and almost stare at you like, “watcha gonna do??!” It’s utterly disgraceful. We are very active in our school and our kids world. I’m no push over but I wouldn’t want to be charged by some wonderful dog and have to respond… Thanks again!!

  • Decomposes January 8, 2015 (12:29 am)

    What is the big deal, poop decomposes

  • Brian January 8, 2015 (6:41 am)

    I dunno, guys. I break a lot of laws every day but I’d wager that zero of them have ever resulted in mammalian feces being strewn about a public parcel of land.
    Maybe that’s the big deal here. When you jaywalk or speed a little bit, you’re not pooping on the ground and leaving it for someone to step in. I mean, you’re probably not, right?
    In case you didn’t know: Most people don’t like stepping in poop.
    I imagine if pet owners stopped leaving so much poop on the ground, there’d be less complaints all around.

  • Jtk January 8, 2015 (7:43 am)

    1. I agree with Canyon Road.
    2. More condos and apartments = less LAND for parks and green spaces = this being a larger and larger problem, because the people that live in the condos and apartments will still own dogs, and have no yard.
    3. Buy the bags and pick up the poop period.

  • Born on Alki 59 January 8, 2015 (8:10 am)

    @ 2 Much Whine.
    If I could add a few to your list:
    No dogs in stores (what’s up with that?)
    No dogs at car shows
    No dogs at the farmers market
    No dogs at street fairs

    Really people, just pick up your dog crap please. Oh, and don’t put it in the yard waste. :)

  • Poopus Glorious Maioritas January 8, 2015 (9:51 am)

    Pooooop!As a former playground supervisor at Pathfinder it was nearly a daily occurrence that a kiddo would need to run inside to find a different pair of pants because they tripped and slipped through poo. Greasy smears across their backs, sneaker treads filled with doo doo, little hands with dog crap on them. I love to watch a dog galloping across an open field off leash, the pure joy of a wide open gait! Awesome. And I have owned dogs, been a paid professional dog walker and I have been witness to the posture of a pooping dog, not difficult to recognize. So, people! When you see your dog squat and squeeze, eyeball the spot, walk to it, pick up the poop. Have an issue with that responsibility? Then you have to leash your pet, you are not allowed to throw a Frisbee for Fido, you may take your pooch to Westcrest dog park, because it’s for dogs. PS, nice sign! NWPA Society approved

  • MsX January 8, 2015 (10:32 am)

    I am an occasional off leash offender, but only AFTER he has pooped and I have scooped and if we see other people or dogs, back on leash he goes.I hate dog poop and do not want to subject other people to stepping in a pile. Now if we could get people to stop spitting gum on the sidewalk…

  • Nancy Folsom January 8, 2015 (11:29 am)

    If the school has a problem with the sign, they will, no doubt take action.

    As far as I can see, the only reason people are falling back on “because it’s the law” is because we have failed in our attempts to reason with the faction that feels we’re stupid to want dogs to be leased except in designated areas.

    I do not understand the anger and irate reactions the off-leash-anywhere faction feel entitled to express. At Westcrest a few weeks ago a woman was insulting two parks employees for ticketing the people walking their dogs off-leash outside the park. Really? People doing their job, enforcing a law, a law that is clearly stated, do not deserve that kind of childish behavior. I’m appalled at the sense you have that you and your dog are the center of the universe. You are not.

    • WSB January 8, 2015 (11:32 am)

      Re: the sign and the school – Pigeon Point NC meets *at* Pathfinder, and its principal is a regular attendee at the meetings, including those at which this was discussed.

  • Nancy Folsom January 8, 2015 (11:32 am)

    If you want more off-leash parks, get involved with Citizens for Off-leash Areas: http://www.coladog.org/

  • Pigeon Point Dog January 8, 2015 (12:27 pm)

    So, does the principle being at the meeting make the sign legal? Surprised I don’t see more signs up on seattle school property.

    If it does make it legal, I appologize, rules are rules, I’m okay with the sign.

    And, I appologize to chrisw as well, that he had to take a couple more minutes and walk around to the front of the school to attend his school function.

  • PPNC & PTSA Member January 8, 2015 (1:34 pm)

    Wow, this doesn’t need to be such a controversy. The principal wasn’t involved. He occasionally comes to meetings, as our interests cross. I am not speaking for him, but he isn’t fond of this sort of controversy, and wasn’t involved in the actual decision to put the sign up. I’m proud of the sign, and glad it started a discussion. Let’s keep this positive! W.Seattle is small, we all see each other most days.

  • CubanRefugee January 8, 2015 (2:23 pm)

    As a dog owner, it really is amazing that this is such a hot issue. A sign went up, yes. Why did it go up? Because some not so responsible dog owners feel that grass is grass, even if it is a place where children play on a daily basis and attached to a school, and don’t care (or pay attention to) where their animal defecates.

    It’s common sense and common decency, folks. Your dog takes a steaming hot one, be decent and pick it up. If they do it in your house on accident, do you just leave it there? Of course not. Even in the off-leash parks, there are bags and garbage cans for when your dog does their business, so why would you treat a school playground like a toilet?

    The sign is hardly some kind of scathing response to the problem at hand. It even plainly states that if you want to ignore the law, then to PLEASE (it even says it nicely) control and pick up their waste.

  • Ok, but... January 8, 2015 (3:00 pm)

    It is a little passive aggressive. “Hey we’re super nice and please follow the rules, but if you’re an a-hole, then just know you suck.” It implies some dog owners are holier than thou, but the sign itself is holier than thou. That’s basically how it reads.

  • Canyon Road January 8, 2015 (3:21 pm)

    Right-on, @Ok, but . . .

    How ridiculous this thread has become. Yes, off-leash dogs & unpicked-up poop = bad. But so is the hypocrisy of the do-gooder PPNC.

    Can any PPNC’r claim that they had the legal authority to hang this sign? (We already know they’ve claimed the moral authority.) If Pathfinder K-8 principal David Dockendorfer didn’t sign of on this (and I’m not surprised to hear he didn’t — he’s no fool), then who did?

  • Haven January 8, 2015 (8:56 pm)

    Wow. So many opinions. You people need real problems. Seriously.

  • WS res January 8, 2015 (10:05 pm)

    Totally agree with canyon road and ok,but!
    This thread is sounding more and more like an episode you would see on Portlandia.
    “Put a sign on it!”

  • WS Dogs January 8, 2015 (10:54 pm)

    Westcrest has car break-ins on regular basis. Our car along with 3 others was broken into a few months ago. Then our neighbor had his car broken into a month ago. West Seattle needs a safe off leash park.

  • Jennifer January 8, 2015 (11:19 pm)

    The sign on the other side of the field says no pets allowed, citing Seattle Municipal code. If you have issue with the PPNC sign, I suggest you follow the official sign. I live in the neighborhood and my child attends school here. We often feel unsafe crossing the field with unleashed dogs present.

  • WS res January 9, 2015 (8:03 am)

    I don’t think two wrongs make a right. People not following the dog rules or just plain common courtesy and people hanging signs up wherever they like.

  • Canyon Road January 9, 2015 (9:19 am)

    Yes, @Jennifer: To add irony-to-irony, the PPNC sign in question was placed on top of the “official” sign on this side of the field. So now you can’t see the one citing the Seattle Municipal code.

  • w.s.maverick January 9, 2015 (9:52 am)

    no means no its not a dog park i heard they are putting locking gates up

  • RespDogOwner January 9, 2015 (12:59 pm)

    Not just Pigeon Point…this is rampant all over West Seattle…..Lincoln Park and Alki are really bad. Responsible dog owners cannot even walk their leashed dogs without being bothered. City could make big bucks if they enforced the laws.

  • Pigeon Point Dog January 9, 2015 (1:09 pm)

    It’s not a problem on pigeon point. A few people will walk their dogs and if no one is on the field they will let their dog off leash and play fetch or something. It’s not as menacing as the PPNC would lead you to believe.

  • drahcir61 January 9, 2015 (3:14 pm)

    Character is what you do when no one is watching.

    That includes picking up your dog’s poop,

    and tossing it into a trash can,

    and not letting your dog use playfields not designated for dogs or letting your dog off a leash while walking thru Pigeon Point.

    I have a dog, she’s almost 14 … she’s never off a leash & we’ve always picked up after her … not because I have to …

    but because it’s the right thing to do.

    Which reminds me she didn’t go this morning so might be a two-bagger today.

  • What's that smell? January 9, 2015 (3:34 pm)

    Pigeon Point Dog says, “It’s not a problem on pigeon point.” Says the guy who lets his dog off a leash. lol

    Duh, of course it’s not a problem on Pigeon Point … for you!

    Hey news flash, there are other people that live in Pigeon Point & kids/adults that use that playfield & if they think it’s a problem … well then it’s a problem.

  • Pigeon Point Dog January 9, 2015 (4:52 pm)

    I don’t use the field as an off leash area, I’m a good dog, but when I drive by the field, there’s usually no one there, or sometimes a person playing fetch with a dog. And I don’t think dogs are the reason kids aren’t using the field. I can see how it’d be a problem at busy place like Alki or Lincoln park, but not here. Plus the sign’s tone is kinda rude and condescending, not to mention hypocritical.

  • Rover January 9, 2015 (8:45 pm)

    I confess that I’ve had my dog off leash on school grounds when he was younger – so full of energy it seemed there was no wearing him out. One day while walking my dog off leash on a hiking trail near Snoqualmie Pass, a full-grown man on the trail climbed up on top of a stump and screamed. He could’ve easily overpowered my 35-pound collie mix breed – who wasn’t anywhere near the man and was ignoring him completely. The man had a legitimate phobia and it really opened my eyes to how other people perceive even the most harmless of dogs. A few years later my same dog was attacked by an off leash pit bull. So honestly if you have a dog you also have a serious responsibility to use only appropriate open spaces.

  • WS res January 10, 2015 (9:36 am)

    Right on Pigeon Point Dog!

  • Jw January 10, 2015 (3:06 pm)

    Come on PP dog. If you live here you know that there are other signs in the neighborhood. Same artist. It’s a health issue plain and simple. But NOBODYS dog would ever harbor a parasite right?

  • Thomas M. January 11, 2015 (9:28 am)

    More off leash parks are obviously required. WestCrest is a long round trip for much of West Seattle. It is also not flat and I don;t know how anyone with physical difficulties is supposed to climb in or out. It is a pretty steep bowl.

    Putting gates on existing flat lands, and putting up doo doo bag dispensers eliminates “loose” dogs (inside the fence). It also eliminates most loose brains of selfish butt brains who fail to do their duty and pick up the poop. There will always be the borderline sociopath who can;t seem to grasp the idea that rules apply to him/her.

  • Pigeon Point Dog January 11, 2015 (12:38 pm)

    im not sure, jw. Is this an issue in our community? Have kids been getting sick? I’ve not heard of this. Maybe chrisw could post a link for us.

  • WS res January 11, 2015 (2:00 pm)

    Tonight on a very special Pigeon Pointlandia: “Put a Sign On It”. Neighborhood activists run amock and put signs up everywhere to remind people what to do and where to go it.
    With special music guest: the Five Man Electrical band sigining “Signs”.

  • Pigeon Point Dog January 11, 2015 (2:54 pm)

    Someone should post a sign, next to the sign, explaining that it is against the rules to post signs on seattle school property. I mean, someone could really get hurt here.

  • Jw January 12, 2015 (7:17 pm)

    @ PP dog. Sure would be silly to wait till someone’s child gets sick. Wait, I’m pretty sure that’s why there are already signs posted on the fence noting the smc. Think about it this way… If your dog crapped on the carpet in your kids bedroom would you just scrape it off the floor with a plastic bag? Or would you “sanitize” the area?

  • NativetoSeattle January 18, 2015 (8:32 pm)

    There had been an official SPS sign on the fence, but it disappeared over 6 months ago & the other SPS signs are at other sides of the field. So the sign that was put up there is in its place. The neighborhood isn’t just putting up a sign because they want to make the rules, but because the other sign is missing.

  • BK January 22, 2015 (2:57 pm)

    Looks like the angry, scofflaw dog owners have stated their case by removing the (light hearted and informative) sign. Its now gone.

    An off-leash dog bit my partner a little over a year ago on the walking trails behind the school.

    Seems like dog owners belive they’re *special* that the rules don’t apply to them. Dogs should be on a leash.

  • Pigeon Point Dog January 26, 2015 (12:21 pm)

    Don’t blame the scofflaw dog owners. I believe the school asked the scofflaw PPNC to take the sign down.

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