52 Replies to "Metro money mess: 3 1/2-hour hearing draws hundreds"

• wsmom May 14, 2013 (10:43 pm)

  Every time Metro looks at deleting routes or reducing service they come right over to West Seattle and minimize bus routes. Many residents in West Seattle and White Center depend on the bus system to get to work, appointments or anything else.
  I am pretty sure they can delete other routes instead of completely taking away people’s mean of transportation

• B May 14, 2013 (11:41 pm)

  Just crazy – looking at the map there is NO bus for all of admiral. The original PDF said the 57 may “change”, apparently that now means “cut”.

• Mke May 14, 2013 (11:55 pm)

  We need people who lead up Portland’s transportation program to take over the Metro bus system.

• cj May 15, 2013 (12:27 am)

  If more people were actually paying for bus rides it might make a difference. I get on the back with my orca card in my bag and pay on the tap machine outside but no one ever checks it. I suspect many who ride are not paying at all.

  I ask my self sometimes if they are just trying to go broke.

• Diane May 15, 2013 (1:33 am)

  so you get on via back door with your Orca card hidden inside your bag, but you assume everyone else is cheating? maybe they all think you’re cheating too
  ~
  I see Rapid Ride fare checkers on the bus all the time

• MK May 15, 2013 (2:22 am)

  I’m sorry, but the city of Seattle and the state of Washington must save transit resources. Transit is a public good that benefits all! We can’t afford to go backwards. Not all of us can drive and get around on public transit only (like myself). We are already seeing how it is negatively affecting the elderly and poor. Why don’t they put that half a billion for the Kings towards public transportation? We need to stop marginalizing people who need these resources most. It makes me sick!

• wsguy May 15, 2013 (4:13 am)

  So 400 people out of 2,000,000 King County residents showed up in support of having other people pay more for a service they want?

  Hardly overwhelming support.

• Paul May 15, 2013 (4:52 am)

  B, there would still be a bus to Admiral. The orange lines are unchanged routes.

• Paul May 15, 2013 (4:56 am)

  wsmom: West Seattle isn’t the only part of King County where areas would completely lose service.

• yo May 15, 2013 (5:28 am)

  I see fare checkers probably twice a month. And just one person was caught not paying. So that’s something like one in 500. A 99.2% payment rate is not bad.

• yo May 15, 2013 (5:32 am)

  99.8%!

• Joe Szilagyi May 15, 2013 (6:14 am)

  @wsguy how do you think the working poor who especially rely on the bus are supposed to show up, and at a hearing scheduled at 330pm, when most people are working?

• Philosurfy May 15, 2013 (7:15 am)

  I’m beyond frustrated that the city penalizes people for driving, but fails to provide adequate public transportation routes. Seattle needs to stop trying to act like a “big” city.

• Rick May 15, 2013 (7:41 am)

  wsguy – when’s the last time you tried putting “2,000,000 King County residents” into a room designed for 50? It’s not as much as who votes as it is who counts the votes. 400 is a good turnout.

• Gene May 15, 2013 (7:45 am)

  M-are you saying you want Chris Hansen to fund METRO?? That’s who is paying for the Kings!
  METRO-like many City/County/State agencies is poorly managed-yet we keep giving them money & keep re-electing people who appoint those who run
  them.I’d like to know where their collective brains are sometimes-do they ever have a logical-practical thought-did they never live in the real world??

• Chris W May 15, 2013 (7:57 am)

  CJ, you can get on RR without tapping if you’re transferring from another bus.

• patt May 15, 2013 (8:09 am)

  If in the old days one letter was worth 100 – 300 peoples interest. One person showing up to a meeting was about 1000, then 400 is a very good turn out. (do the math)
  (it may be different proportion now)
  Sorry at 3:30pm I was working, and I rode the only bus that gets me within 3 blocks of work.

• Jordan May 15, 2013 (8:18 am)

  There is no good reason why Metro can’t have utilization numbers on every route for every hour of every day. Then it is simply a matter of removing those routes/times that have less than say 25% utilization. My guess is that by doing that, alone, would more than fix the budget problems. I follow empty C-Line buses all day (granted at the extreme south end of their line) and other routes during non-peak times. Driving buses that get 4-5 mpg all over town empty for 6 hours a day is not a cost effective way to run the business.

• Amanda May 15, 2013 (8:48 am)

  If you live in Arbor Heights, Westwood or Roxhill and are really fired up about this, contact the WWRHAH Council. One of our main focus areas is Metro and we need Committee Members. Our June 4th meeting will have reps from Metro in attendance. Please contact us at contact@wwrhah.org.

• Al May 15, 2013 (8:53 am)

  I follow and pass empty cars, allowing seating for usually 4+ people, while I bike to/from work. My guess is that car-sharing and car-pooling or getting on a bus even once a week would help with the traffic problems and give some perspective about bus service.

  I use the bus too, often. I have no car. The current system works for me. I am not “poor” or “elderly” just a person who has made a choice to not own a car. Cutting bus service would be a huge impediment to many people. It makes it much, much more difficult to get around (and service has been cut year after year). Those of you acting all high an mighty because you “see people” not paying the fare (so you assume) and using that for justification? They aren’t paying their fair share? You think you, as drivers, ARE paying your fair share? This has been disproved many, many times (and is easy to check).

  Bus service and providing means to get around without a car is helpful for everyone. It’s not about the ME but the WE.

• West Seattle since 1979 May 15, 2013 (9:17 am)

  Thank you for a well-worded comment, Al. Remember, if bus service is cut, traffic, which is already bad, will be much worse with all the extra cars on the road belonging to people whose bus service was cut.

• Wes C. Addle May 15, 2013 (9:28 am)

  @Mike

  Have you used Portland’s Tri-Met system? It’s far worse than Seattle. I can walk to most places faster than the bus in Portland.

• Jtk May 15, 2013 (9:46 am)

  Pretty Much, if you live in West Seattle you are screwed to get downtown or over the bridge… Sad…..

• jiggers May 15, 2013 (10:29 am)

  I should have opened up my hotdog stand..

• themightyrabbit May 15, 2013 (11:23 am)

  I ride my bike downtown, connect with the 550 to Bellevue, and ride back the whole way in the afternoon. But in the winter I switch back to using more of the local bus routes. If this change goes thru, reviewing the map (which doesn’t at ALL look like 17% reduction, looks like significantly worse – why is the 21x deleted!!!) this will become a total disaster for traffic. They talk about removing lanes from I5 as a way to describe how much worse it is. Think about how bad traffic is now here in W.Seattle to get downtown, on a worse case. Then envision that every day.

  I see myself reverting back to something I prefer to avoid – year round cycling to get in and out of W.Seattle.

  Am hopeful this gets addressed with HB1954. This will at some point affect land values. Ugh.

• Mike May 15, 2013 (11:39 am)

  Instead of cutting service raise fares. People who pay gas tax and car tabs shouldn’t be paying for us people to ride the bus. It seems like I read recently they pay about 80% of the fare for transit riders. Pay higher fares or deal with way less service. I will do it, how bout the rest of you transit riders?

• G May 15, 2013 (11:47 am)

  Apparently everyone had the money to vote billions towards an expensive and over-touted light rail system.

• Gina May 15, 2013 (11:50 am)

  Heard about meeting, checked to see when and where. Middle of my workday. Nope, couldn’t go.

• nyhopi May 15, 2013 (12:15 pm)

  Can someone please explain to me if Metro Transit and Rapid Ride are the same-ish?

  What I was interested in and am still interested in is WHY did we feel the need to establish a “Rapid Ride” spending who knows how much on sidewalk widening, new digital bus stop signs, new buses etc when we could have just made enhancements to Metro.

  Used to be I could take 1 bus from WS to Ballard straight shot…perfect, now it takes 2 buses and double the time.

  I kinda feel like I am seeing the emperor is naked and in the minority.

  Thank you

• Mark May 15, 2013 (12:17 pm)

  I don’t use Metro much… a commute to Bellevue by bus makes no sense. I would, however, gladly see my car tabs increased the $80 a year they need to cover the services.

  But I would prefer they make this solution permanent so we don’t have to do this again in three years…

• Diane May 15, 2013 (12:55 pm)

  Gina; the hearing started at 4, and continued til 7:30pm

• West Seattle since 1979 May 15, 2013 (1:49 pm)

  Nyhopi, Rapid Ride is part of Metro. But funding for the project, including buses, new shelters, and the other things you mentioned came from a federal grant that could only be used on Rapid Ride.

  Also, doesn’t the C turn into the D and go to Ballard? They were talking about changing it to go to South Lake Union, but I didn’t think it had happened yet, or even that it was definite that it would happen.

• Lori May 15, 2013 (1:56 pm)

  The people whom complain about paying a $20 car tab fee will be stuck in thicker traffic that you have now if this is cut. This is not just about the people who ride the bus. This is about cutting down on the people who drive in cars, reducing pollution, getting more cars off the HWY during peak hours and reducing the need for parking downtown. I have been riding the bus to work for 5 years from Kenmore to Seattle and I have a car. I choose to ride the bus. It is STUPID to drive unless you have to get kids to daycare or need your car for work. To the person who said that the tax payers are paying 80 percent of my fare I would like to know more details. I pay $110. a month for my pass.
  I do agree some routes need to be audited and cut back, for instance. I have the option to take two busses every ten min to work during peak times and this is good because they are full BUT the 372 goes by twice during the ten min I am waiting……and it is mostly empty. I think they need to spend the next year looking at cutting all of the routes a little but not getting rid of any completely. I also am willing as a driver and a bus rider to pay a car tab. People whom complain about this will regret not doing so when the traffic is worse than now and the smog is thicker than it is in the summer. Most of you blow this at Starbuck in a week.

• West Seattle since 1979 May 15, 2013 (1:56 pm)

  Mike, many bus riders also have cars and pay for gas and tabs, especially people who ride the bus to work. So it’s not just bus riders vs. people who drive.

• McBride May 15, 2013 (3:40 pm)

  I’m curious, has anybody validated the statement “the money for Rapid Ride came from a Federal Grant”? It’s curious to me. By my reckoning, this statement has only recently entered the conversation.
  .
  Near as I can tell, 120 million, or 62%, came from grants. The other 70 million came from us (37% locally, 1% state). The kicker is the 52 million in annual operating expenses for rapid ride alone. In other words, shortly after the second year, Rapid Ride is a liability.
  .
  Is there information to the contrary? Particularly more than a year old? Does it specify what exactly the grant money must accomplish? I have a feeling that would be an insightful read.

  • WSB May 15, 2013 (3:59 pm)

    McB, that is what Kevin Desmond said in our interview (videorecorded in full, in our story from Monday). He did not say it was funded in its entirety by federal dollars. I’d have to go back to get the specific numbers but they were something resembling what you mentioned.

• West Seattle Hipster May 15, 2013 (4:10 pm)

  I have no issue paying a higher car tab fee to subsidize mass transit. The more people on the bus, the fewer cars on the road. As a proud Orca card holding citizen, using the bus and light rail is always a nice option for me.

  However, I am dubious that giving Kevin Desmond more money is a solution. The last couple of times car tab fees were raised to subsidize Metro, service was inexplicably cut, not enhanced.

  I am wondering if there are other transit systems in the country that are self sustaining and if so, can Metro study them to see how they operate?

• wetone May 15, 2013 (4:34 pm)

  Funds from increase would go to Metro and Sound Transit. Funny how the $800 million their spending for new buses, Rail, transit equipment and much more has not come out and is being kept on the D/L.

• Mark Seeb May 15, 2013 (4:49 pm)

  Instead of spending money transforming 1 lane of the already congested streets(aka:alaskan way)for busses only. Spend it where it will actually make a difference.

• Amanda May 15, 2013 (5:51 pm)

  If Rapid Ride was Kevin Desmond’s idea, and he fought for it, he should be let go for it failing. That’s what happens in the real world.

• MK May 16, 2013 (2:43 am)

  @ Al, Amen!

• bargle May 16, 2013 (9:07 am)

  Honestly I am starting to feel like we should just tear the bandaid off and just let metro drown.
  –
  We aren’t going to see any improvements until the neighborhoods with more money and influence find themselves in the position that West Seattle has faced for years.
  –
  So just get it over with. Cut all routes to the bone. People will realize once its gone what they had, and we can finally get to the business of making a real transit system.

• West Seattle since 1979 May 16, 2013 (11:05 am)

  Sorry for the misinformation about Rapid Ride C.

• Noelle May 16, 2013 (11:35 am)

  I am sorry. Seattle is not a small town any more. We need dependable public transit.

• Tugthugret May 16, 2013 (12:53 pm)

  Reading the post I’m assuming most people agree that cutting bus service would effect a whole lot of people who depend on the bus because they are poor and or have no car. Well I fail to see based on that where the increased congestion on our roads will occur when most bus people have no car to begin with.

• Mike May 16, 2013 (2:12 pm)

  @Lori, I was off on the 80 % subsidy. In 2012 Metro claims to have a “Transit farebox recovery ratio” of 27.9% (estimated) (In ’06 it was 19.1%)
  Per this report: http://metro.kingcounty.gov/am/reports/2012/metro-2012-strategic-plan-progress-report.pdf.

  Better than I had read previously. However, I believe we as transit riders need to pay at least half of the farebox recovery fee. Why shouldn’t it be paid for by user fees? No one subsidizes car user fees, why should they subsidize ours?

• West Seattle since 1979 May 16, 2013 (2:57 pm)

  @Tugthugret, you’re joking, right? Because a lot of people who also have cars ride the bus to work.

• West Seattle since 1979 May 16, 2013 (3:07 pm)

  @Mike, I think part of the reason the fares aren’t higher is that Metro wants more people to take the bus who wouldn’t normally use it, in order to reduce congestion on the roads. Making the fares too high would discourage many people from riding the bus–they’d figure that it’d be just as cost-effective for them to drive (and they’d be able to go whereever they wanted.) This is just my guess, however.

• miws May 16, 2013 (4:09 pm)

  Tugthugret, please cite the source to your claim.

  .

  Mike

• Carolann May 16, 2013 (10:43 pm)

  they take buses from where they are needed and put them where people don’t ride them. makes perfect sense.

• Resident3 May 16, 2013 (11:00 pm)

  This is so sad. Very different from when I moved here only 5 years ago. Catching a bus from our area was so easy…to downtown and to the airport. Not now.

• Kelly May 17, 2013 (8:14 am)

  Past few nights I have taken the 116X during rush hour. That bus has yet to have more than 6 riders on it yet. Waited for a RR to stop @ dock to head to Westwood & there were 3 RR buses stacked up in a row. How about less cutting, but making the current system more efficient?

Sorry, comment time is over.