Followup: No citation decision yet in Junction nail-shop crash

(Monday afternoon photo by Katie Meyer for WSB)
Since Monday afternoon’s crash at California Nails in The Junction (WSB coverage here), we have been working to get additional information from police, beyond what few details were available at the scene. In particular, we’ve been asking whether the driver was cited, and what police have learned about why the car crashed into the shop.

Tonight, we finally have some additional information; the full report isn’t in the system, according to Det. Jeff Kappel of the media unit, but Southwest Precinct Lt. Alan Williams talked to one of the officers who handled the incident. He says that the driver, in his mid-80s, “was parked out in front of the shop. When he attempted to drive off, something happened – he claimed that he blacked out – that resulted in his car accelerating and crashing into the shop. The driver did not have obvious injuries, but he was checked out by Seattle Fire and then transported to the hospital for further evaluation. One patron of the shop sustained some cuts to her feet when she walked across the broken glass while fleeing the chaos. A responding officer completed an accident report that has been forwarded to collision investigators for any additional follow-up and consideration of charges or citations.” Be aware, that can take months – we have followed up on other notable collision cases in which decisions didn’t come for half a year or longer; Det. Kappel points out that the window for such decisions is up to a year.

ADDED 9:44 PM: We had noticed a note on California Nails’ window earlier but hadn’t been able to go back to read it till after writing this update; it says, “Sorry for any inconvenience. We will be up and running as soon as possible.”

nomanches April 12, 2011 (9:48 pm)

Dear friends and family: Please do not let me drive when I am in my eighties. I do not wish to crash other people’s dreams and/or businesses or worse, run over unsuspecting pedestrians.
Please please please…

Megan April 12, 2011 (10:13 pm)

I leave town and don’t check the blog for 1 day and then I find out my favorite nail salon had a car crash into it! Awful! I am so glad that the owners and their daughter are okay, they are such nice people.

I still have no idea how a driver could have gone into the store at this angle. But I suppose the driver does not either. So sad!

JanS April 12, 2011 (10:44 pm)

Megan…that was my thought. How does one go from being parallel to the store, and in the next breath, you’ve made a hard right turn directly into it? Hope that they can find out if there’s anything wrong with the guy…or the car. :(

JC April 12, 2011 (11:14 pm)

JanS – Knowing that area well, it is almost inconceivable how that car could have ended up inside the store without some serious negligence. Given that the driver claims he blacked out, I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that the problem was more with the driver than the car.

I feel terrible for the business owners, but most of all am thankful that (surprisingly) nobody was seriously hurt.

Camo April 12, 2011 (11:55 pm)

Wishing the driver, business, and customers all the best…but just from a technical standpoint, how the car even get in there?? There is a tree and fire hydrant right in front…

Paul April 13, 2011 (1:57 am)

Hey don’t let all these young whipersnapers get you down. You go Grandpa Go !

casey April 13, 2011 (8:30 am)

The driver although he’s in his 80s is probably more active than some 60 year olds I know. Saying that he shouldn’t be driving because he’s in his 80s is pretty ignorant, especially before the details from the collision investigators come out. I do agree though, that some that age should not drive, but not because of their age, but perhaps their eyesight etc.!! For instance my grandfather had a stroke while driving while he was in his 60s, that was definitely not his fault, but should he have not ever driven because of the off chance that he could have suffered a medical condition while operating a vehicle?

c April 13, 2011 (8:34 am)

Medical emergencies can happen at any age. I am just happy that there were no serious injuries.

DWHJ April 13, 2011 (8:42 am)

Good example of why people should be re tested at some point. No ones life should be put at risk for someones self entitled feeling to drive. Impaired driving is the same. Old,drunk,high,tired,sick.impaired driving is impaired driving he should have been ticketed for that at least.People who have not had the pleasure of liveing to 80 could have been killed how is that less fair than to ? his ability to drive?

Norma Berube-Adler April 13, 2011 (9:18 am)

Whether its the driver’s health or eye sight, time for the state to cancel driver’s license.

Jasperblu April 13, 2011 (9:48 am)

Dear @Nomanches, spoken like a “youngster” who has NO idea what it’s like to be 80-something, or who loves someone who is 80-something, or to be an adult child of an 80-something parent and knowing how important it is for them to remain independent & not wanting to beg or rely on family members who don’t think they can do anything, like drive, since theyre in their 80’s.
.
As sad as it is for this business owner, that’s what insurance is for. I hope they can re-open quickly and without too much red tape getting in the way. I’m a lot sadder for the 80-something man who inexplicably managed to maneuver his car into this business. I hope he didn’t have a stroke, or some other ailment that caused this accident.
.
Unless of course he was drunk, in which case ALL bets are off!

bridge to somewhere April 13, 2011 (11:06 am)

While generally speaking the elderly are more cautious drivers than, say, teens–their reaction times are understandably diminished. While freeedom to move on one’s own is important, we must not pretend that being very elderly has no impact on one’s ability to drive.

Ben April 13, 2011 (11:17 am)

@jasperblu. It seems that there are a ton of people who think like you do in Seattle, which has made it a tougher place to live as a community. PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY HAS TAKEN A BACKSEAT TO INDIVIDUALISM AND INDEPENDENT THINKING. What you just said is complete rubbish.That’s what HIS insurance is for. 10 mins before the accident, the nail salon owners didn’t have any reason to know this man existed, but minutes later he has ruined their lives for a period of time and it could have been much worse. HIS insurance better be good, but if it’s not, @jasperblu, are you ready to go support this family and their daughter while the red tape piles up? Are you ready to go cook them some meals to help them get by, all in the name of an 80 year old’s independence? That’s what you’re defending. You’re clearly not thinking of all that the family is going to have deal with, and clearly not considering how awful this could have been. Re-adjust and then stop defending the elderly just because they’re struggling to cope w/ the realities of aging. We all support parents and friends going through the same process. Some should not be driving. Period.

You say if this 80 year old was drunk, you’d blame him. But since he’s JUST an 80 year old man, you give him a pass because “these things happen” while trying to maintain personal integrity and independence into the latter stages of their lives. The explanation of events is EXACTLY what I expected to read. Somebody was basically asleep behind the wheel for 10 or 20 seconds. They HAD been parked (ie, safe) but when that 80 year old turned the key, he became capable of killing people and causing property damage.

Why are we defending this guy’s independance again? Oh, that’s right, because people who live in Seattle don’t like to take responsibility for themselves these days. EXCUSES EXCUSES EXCUSES. I’m sick of it…Defending ANYthing about this is irresponsible to the community.

When you live in a community, such as a West Seattle or a Ballard or a White Center, your individual desire to maintain independance as an ‘adult driver’ is trumped by the safety needs and well being of other members of the community. This man can go live in Covington if he wants to drive. Much less dense population. Here in a denser city, the needs of many must trump the needs of one man. The same citizen — if responsible — would admit to themselves, or accept advice from others, that they are a danger to others when they are behind the wheel of a 2000 lb piece of metal.

It’s not that I have a problem with the fact that accidents do happen. Even this one. But what I keep getting a sense of (from the comments) is that this guy, this guy’s family, AND HALF OF WEST SEATTLE, think he should be allowed to drive again because (a) he deserves to maintain his independance, (b) it was an accident, and (c) nobody got killed.

Maybe I’m the idiot, but that is ass backwards if you ask me. Crash into a building, nobody’s fault buy yours, admit to blacking out while parked and then starting your car….you’re over 80….you never drive again. Period. No debate.

Cheryl April 13, 2011 (11:35 am)

@bridgetosomewhere – Agree that age CAN have an impact on one’s ability to drive. But it’s not a given, and it’s absolutely unfair to assume that it is. Disease, eyesight, impaired muscle/skeletal function, time lapse between drivers licensing and tests, cultural ideas about driving, gender, etc. can all also play a role.
.
Too few of our elderly are without any assistance whatsoever, let alone family members who are sensitive (or even helpful for that matter) to their needing help getting to/from their various activities, doctors appointments, friends, etc. What about those who have no family and friends nearby to help, even if they wanted to?
.
Is Seattle and other communities ready to pick up the tab on an effective transit system that allows these folks to get where they need to go? Or will it continue to spend money on other “frivolities” like welfare, homeless camps and fancy new underground waterfront tunnels instead?
.
I have NO idea what happened in this particular accident, I just hate it when people jump to conclusions about the elderly not being fit to drive, simply because they’re old. My 85+ yr old neighbor still drives, my BF’s 90+ grandmother still drives, my father was driving into his 80’s and my mom into her 70’s (and the only reason I had to stop “letting” them was because illness in my fathers case, and dementia in my mothers, made it dangerous to them and others to do so).
.
Isolation and a lack of autonomy is the kiss of death for our elderly citizens. And it’s not right to expect them to give it up. They deserve better. And they deserve our respect. Not that you were saying they don’t by the way. Just my 2 cents.

jiggers April 13, 2011 (12:07 pm)

Newsflash..Teenagers have the worst driving stats period!

Marge April 13, 2011 (12:51 pm)

it will be hard for the driver, but he needs his license revoked. What if he had killed someone?

Ben April 13, 2011 (2:44 pm)

@cheryl…you’re proving my point about the elderly and driving. It’s not “jumping to conclusions” about the elderly’s ability to drive when 50% of your own examples PROVE that they need to be re-tested to earn their license after they hit age 75.

That’s 50/50 statistics @cheryl. In that case, when the potential negative outcome (vehicular homicide) outwieghs the potential positives (grandpa keeps getting to drive to bingo), we need to lean towards safety since one benefits the greater good and the other only helps grandpa’s personal freedoms.

But driving is not a right, it’s an earned privilege that people have to pay a lot for. For example, un-insured drivers don’t have the right to drive, but if they’re willing to break the law, it’s a privilege they can still maintain. Make no mistake, we’re not all SUPPOSED to be driving (or there wouldn’t be licenses) so this is NOT an issue of personal freedoms and independence.

It’s not that the elderly shouldn’t be allowed to drive. I just think we can all agree that, at some point, the elderly need to prove again that they have the ability to drive and that their reaction times and hand/eye coordination haven’t diminished. If their cognitive skills have deteriorated, then they are a a danger to us all behind the wheel.

Testing HTML April 13, 2011 (4:33 pm)

And the short answer is…when you get old and have an accident it is time to decide if you’re still able to drive. When that happened in my family the elder driver sold the car and I started running errands. A few years later and I’m changing diapers. Little kids, teenagers, the elderly, and even some irresponsible adults need supervision and care.

bridge to somewhere April 13, 2011 (5:43 pm)

@Cheryl: the single point in my post was that generally the very elderly necessarily have slower reaction times than younger people. I take it you acknowledge that point? Now, what to do with that is an altogether different question (indeed, I even acknowledged that freedom to move on one’s own is important). Don’t conflate the two (fact versus resolution plan.)
.
The scientific fact is there regardless of the emotion we feel about it or whether we choose to do anything about it: elderly drivers have slower reaction times than the rest of us.

bridge to somewhere April 13, 2011 (5:46 pm)

P.s. In a scientific sense, knowing someone who bucks a general trend is an outlier–I’m glad you know people who are very elderly and who drive well and may have reaction times on par with a 30 year old, but that doesn’t mean generally speaking elderly have reaction times equal to 30 year olds.

Jenn April 13, 2011 (10:41 pm)

@Ben: Bravo. I love you.

Jasperblu April 14, 2011 (7:57 am)

Wow. A lot of people who hate the elderly. That’s awesome. And FWIW, I wasn’t trying to make the business owner less important. I am very sorry that such an accident happened at all, regardless of who drove through their windows. It just seemed to me that the intitial response was automatically “Revoke all old people’s right to drive!” and that’s just ridiculous.
.
Of COURSE we should all have to prove our capacity to retain our drivers license. ALL of us should. Old, middle aged, young alike. I’m sensitive to the “rights” of the elderly because I took care of my parents the last 10 years of their lives and it was hard work. Much like parenting my now 4 and 1/2 year old is hard work. My folks required my complete attention and it was exhausting. When it became clear that they shouldn’t drive anymore, we talked about it and of course I let them express their concerns, but in the end it WAS safer to take away the car keys. But I was also a daughter who was willing to then pick up the slack and make sure they got to/from wherever they needed to go. Not all elderly have that option. That doesn’t mean I think they should get to keep driving if they really aren’t able to!
.
As for me being somehow deluded about business owners being less important vs. careless drivers, that’s just an assumption on y’alls part. You have NO idea how I feel about business owners, insurance, etc. I wasn’t posting to express my opinions about those things. I just felt that the elderly were being unfairly slammed and wanted to speak up for them. How utterly stupid of me apparently.

Jasperblu April 14, 2011 (8:02 am)

@Ben Unlike most of Seattle, I’m actually NOT a liberal and I absolutely DO believe in personal responsibility. Whatever the reason this man crashed his car into a business, he SHOULD be held responsible. His age doesn’t give him a free pass from that fact, and that’s not what I was saying at all. Jeebus.

swimcat April 14, 2011 (10:19 am)

just because some people think older drivers are dangerous does not mean they hate them. geez.

I am in my mid-30’s and already know that when the kids are grown and out of the house, we will downsize to a one-level condo or townhome that is near public transportation and shopping, doctor’s, etc.. so we can easily get around when we shouldn’t be driving anymore. I am not in denial about aging, but others seem to be. Plan for it and it will be less of a burden on others and you can still be in charge of most of your daily routine.

bridge to somewhere April 14, 2011 (12:33 pm)

@Jasperblue: who exactly posted that they hate the elderly?

cj April 14, 2011 (8:13 pm)

It may be that some drivers in their 80s are fine drivers but the odds are in favor of there being issues. At the very least drivers over a certain age should require medical assurance that they are healthy enough to be driving with out danger to them selves or others. This should include considering medications that might cause problems.

Sorry, comment time is over.