Shannon in Fauntleroy reports she was “watching the Olympics pop in and out of the clouds” when her photo caught something else in the distance – a submarine being escorted by the Coast Guard. With the big sub base at Bangor in Kitsap County, you know subs are out there, but they’re not often seen.
Your tax dollars at work! They must have been hunting Al-Qaeda terrorists in the depths of the Duwamish River.
I think they’re filming Das Boot II with Tom Hanks as the captain. I believe they’re trying to make it the Top Gun of submarine films frm what I’ve read.
does this mean there actually are submarine races on saturday night? ;-)
Yeah, those darn war machines.
All they did is help end the Cold War…no big deal.
Joe – In case you were not born then, the destruction of the Berlin Wall ended the Cold War, and, the Soviet Union.
Willow, I was not only born then, but I was also stationed in England and Germany during the end of the Cold War, and the reunification of Germany. A lot of things led up to the end of the Cold War and the tearing down of the wall, and submarines are a part of that.
The destruction of the Berlin Wall was an effect of the end of the Cold War (not a cause), which was a result of the Soviet Union collapse, which was partly a result of the nuclear and conventional arms race, of which the subs were a part. Deterrence is a beautiful thing; I hope these fine ships continue sail close by and remind us how much force peace actually requires.
Yeah, I have to tie myself up and point a shotgun at my face just to force myself to be peaceful everyday.
Could we have a “post of the year” contest since 2007 is so close to ending, and this seems to have been a banner year for WSB. If so, I vote flipjack’s
“Yeah, I have to tie myself up and point a shotgun at my face just to force myself to be peaceful everyday.” as my candidate.
Carraigna, we’re still debating what the next “top 7” category will be (with a few hours left to make up our minds) … was thinking the top 7 most-discussed posts … although with readership continuing to grow through the year, that stacks the deck toward the second half of ’07, but oh well.
Willow – the destruction of the Berlin wall was a result of the Cold War, not a cause. And yes, I was born in 1965 so I remember the defeat of the Soviet Union/Eastern Block very well.
Some people say “it would have happened anyway”, but that’s generally a argument of last resort and a pretty tough one to prove.
Bottom line: Reagan won the Cold War – and nuclear deterrents like these subs played a major role. Like it or not – they have paid off in spades (if YOU are old enough to know what that term means).
It’s common knowledge that Reagan did NOT win the cold war, except in the minds of some diehard revisionist Reaganites. It’s that kind of ludicrous cowboy thinking that got us in to Iraq.
Acemotel,
OK, if you say so. Is that the old “would have happened anyway” argument? Nice.
If you meant to say that it’s common knowledge among the “liberal elite” – you’ll get no argument from me. That group is very good at NOT giving credit to anything that flies in the face of feel good politics.
Revisionist.
Well Ace, please educate us on WHO won the “Cold War?”
Was it Carter? LBJ? Kennedy? Truman?
Actually Aidan, the sub was likely heading to Bremerton Naval Shipyard for an upkeep period.
Seeing as there isn’t a direct way to get from Bangor to the yards, the subs do have to travel in the Sound to get there.
Hey Frank,
I’m fairly certain that Ace’s professor at Evergreen told him/her that the Cold War ended because of Gorbachev’s Perestrokia.
Standard revisionist history.
Can we call them “Cold War Deniers” kind of like the Left calls people who believe Puget Sound glaciers were not melted by SUVs “Global Warming Deniers”?
I love how people love to blame SUV’s for global warming. The fact is that Farmer Joes BigAss Chevy/Ford/GMC pickup truck for hauling Pig Slop gets crappier milage than MOST SUVs…ok..except for an Escalade with spinny wheels….
Joe,
Either that, or he went to see Charlie Wilson’s War and because Hollywood said that Wilson won the “Cold War” he believes it. Because, as you know, Hollywood NEVER lies about historical facts.
You know I do have a few questions for the AGW folks…
1) If the world has gone through four “Ice Ages” (that we know of) how did the ice melt from the first one to enable three others to occur?
2) The Martian polar ice cap is also melting. What is causing it melt there? In fact, NASA research indicates that surface temps on ALL the planets in our solar system in increasing. If that research is to be believed what is causing that to happen?
3) They once grew grapes in England (LONG before the industrial revolution) but can not do so now because it is TOO COLD. Why were they able to do so then and could it be that the Earth and it’s climate is much more of a mystery than we think it is?
Just food for thought…or it all could be that the Earth gave every planet in our solar system a fever, as Al Gore claimed it is suffering from.
And here I thought it was capitalist expansionism which won both the Cold War and opened up China. Wal-Mart ended the Cold War, Reagan merely got an airport named after him (much to the distaste of everyone who rides the DC subway).
Chas…a long time ago I worked at National Airport, and it will always be National Airport to me…..no RR in front of it :)
yeah I think there’s a group trying to get the national debt named after him. There’s your Reagan legacy, boys: turning the US into a debtor nation.
Another left-wing myth from Ace.
The US has been running “in the red” since Wilson – A Democrat. FDR enlarged that debt with his socialist programs in the failed attempt to bring the US out of the depression.
The fact is that EVERY President has run the country with a debt since Wilson. Yes, even the left-wing God Clinton ran it that way.
But the one thing these revisionists forget is that GDP GREW under Reagan and GW Bush. By the time Clinton was through destroying our economy the GDP went from a high of 6.5% during his tenure to .5% and the onset of a recession by the time he left.
The problem with GW is that he is spending like a Democrat. Even with his spending the yearly debt has shrunk EVERY month as revenues INCREASE.
Well said, Frank. I agree.
Fascinating how a simple photo could trigger discussions that expose the ideological chasm between left and right. Is this a good thing?
Wilson was the one that finally gave into the international bankers (Federal Reserve) and allowed them to run our money system for a fee (interest rates). Their means to pay for the debts was to indebt the ordinary citizen via the IRS (also during Wilson’s term). Coincidentally, Wilson also needlessly involved the US in WW1…but the bankers were happy, and they’ve been since. The divide between the two sides is greatest at the bottom, as you rise to the top there is no difference between parties. The way the system is set up deficit spending is a must. The 800 lb gorilla lurks, follow the money.
>>The divide between the two sides is greatest at the bottom, as you rise to the top there is no difference between parties.
I’m not familiar with a wide body of literature on political stratification by income. except the ones showing a greater tendency to identify as Republican as income rises. (studies mostly from the 90’s) Could you cite your source on this? It’s very interesting. Also, was it self report? Specifically: there is no difference between parties.
Myth #1 from Ace’s last post.
The FACT is that the MOST WEALTHY in the US ARE DEMOCRATS. Buffet, Soros, Gates, Allen…are ALL DEMOCRATS. And yes I do have the data to prove that (just not with me right now).
Myth #2 from Ace’s last post.
There is a widening difference in the parties. Todays Democrates are steering the country toward MORE socialist programs. Health Care is just the start. Notice how they have changed the name from Socialised Health Care” to “UNIVERSAL Health Care.” The DNC platform is full of INCREASED Gov’t programs and spending. The DNC wants to decrease military spending, provide a path to citizenship for ILLEGAL ALIENS, allowing Gays to marry, just to name a few points. But the MOST telling thing is that the DNC has FOUGHT EVERY measure that wants to have people providing a photo ID with proof of citizenship to vote in EVERY STATE IT HAS BEEN INTRODUCED.
This is not only on the National level, but in this state also. What happened to the almost $1 Billion surplus at the start of last years session? That was spent on increased spending and new programs. This surplus went “bye-bye” to the tune of, according to Wa. Dept of Finance, of a projected $650 Million dollar DEFICIET this year.
Seattle isn’t immune to it either. This year “Mayor” “it’s your, not my” Nickles said that he could not afford to hire the rest of the Police Officers to fulfill his pledge of 100 new Officers because the city was out of money. Yet in less than 6 weeks the “Mayor” and City Council O’Kayed $9.9 Million for TWO MORE STUDIES of the Viaduct.
People need to start looking at what these guys/gals we elect stand for or we are going to find ourselves paying, through taxes, for everything for those that don’t want to; or are too lazy to go out and earn it themselves.
By the way Ace are you ever going to answer my question to you about “Who won the Cold War?”
“Well Ace, please educate us on WHO won the “Cold War?â€
Was it Carter? LBJ? Kennedy? Truman?>
Frank, if you are representative of the conservatives, there’s great hope for the liberals. The subject of the cold war can, and does, consume whole dissertations (now largely obsolete!). Most of the battles took place outside of public view, many while Reagan was applying pancake makeup in Hollywood. Besides the fact that the Soviet Union did a good job of imploding on itself, it’s a great insult to the work of many good men and women who sacrificed their lives in god-forsaken places you’ve never heard of, to lay the victory at the feet of one of the worst presidents in the history of the United States. And next time you respond to a post, try to read and understand it.
Ace, you are indictative of the liberals and left wing wackos which shows there is NO HOPE for a Democrat in the “Oval Office” next year. THANK GOD!!!! (oops…I said the “G” word)
First – I was in many of “god-forsaken” places you think you know about. I saw, met and interacted with people who were victims soviet aggression and the spread of communism.
Second – the implosion of the USSR was not solely from internal forces. Reagan’s policies were the catalyst for those changes. The USSR HAD to increase thier military spending to keep up with the US build up. Because of the USSR economic set up they could not. Gorbachev was smart enough to see it before the COMPLETE collapse and danger of another Russian revolution occured.
Third – Reagan’s stance on not giving in to Gorbachev’s demands in the arms II talks in Iceland did more to bring about the end of the Cold War than anything done in the pervious 30+ years.
Fourth, Reagan “one of the worst Presidents” ROFLMAO – you must be too young to remember the double digit unemployment; double digit interest rates; double digit inflation; that the US was suffering from under four years of Carter’s presidency. Reagan’s economic policies brought unprecedented growth of the US economy which benefited this country for many years after he was gone. It took Clinton eight years to bring it down, which was the only thing he (Clinton) was successful at. In the past 30 years this country has suffered from two reccessions, both brought on by the economic policies of Democrats; Carter and Clinton.
Keep your head in the sand if you want, but PLEASE do not think you have ANY IDEA about what went on during the Cold War when you all you learned about it, you learned in a class room from teachers that expoused the Marxist system as the next panacea of utopia.
Frank. I was there, in person, for many many years. I also did my dissertation on one aspect of the soviet system. And I’m sure I’m older than you are, so your patronizing attitude is not appreciated. And p.s. I made a mistake. The very worst president in US history is GWB.
Talk about patronizing .
Isn’t it YOU who said:
“it’s a great insult to the work of many good men and women who sacrificed their lives in god-forsaken places you’ve never heard of”
Ace, I SERIOUSLY doubt that you are older and that you have done ANY dissertations. The main reason is that I have read MANY, MANY papers on the Cold War and even some of the most left leaning professors I know give Reagan SOME credit for the downfal of the USSR.
BTW – Carter is the WORST President the US has EVER SEEN. Followed by Clinton. The book is still out on GW Bush, but the simple fact that there hasn’t been an attack on US soil since 9/11 shows he’s doing something right in that Terrorism areana. In the economy arena…I’m making more money, keeping more of my money (no thanks to Gregiore, Sims and Nickels), putting more of my money into retirement funds (because SS will be depleated by the time I retire in a few short years!). All of this in the last 6 years.
Before you get your undies in a bunch over the Clinton is the second worst Pres. IMO here are a few things that defined Clinton’s stature as the second worst Pres;
1 – The SIX terrorist attacks conducted with NO worthwhile response.
2 – Convicted of Purjury and Impeached
3 – Getting into the war in Kosovo/Bosnia, which more than 10 years later we are still there.
4 – The stagnation and reccession of the economy in the middle and late 90’s.
5 – His administration was THE MOST CORRUPT in US history.
Clinton’s inability to muster a decent response to the terror attacks that occured during his two terms are a big reason 9/11 happened. And no, I do not blame him for the attacks, but he emboldened the terrorists with his lack of response.
Sorry, comment time is over.
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