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(29 posts)

Election 2012


  1. Having voted against both The Republican party's presidential and Washington senatorial candidate on 10/23, I am reasonably sure the GOP doesn’t want any notes from me about its failures last night.

    On the other hand, I am a white, male, fairly well-off, heterosexually-married, college educated fellow, which means according to exit polls, at least, I am the GOP “demographic” down to the last jot and tittle.

    Maybe you’ll listen for just that reason, though listening doesn' seem to be a strong suit of yours

    So, comrades! some notes for y'all, addressed to the party leaders, not the party members.

    1. Recognize your brand is damaged. You can’t seriously be considered to be the party of fiscal responsibility at this point; your record for the last thirty years makes this laughable. Bush shot your international relations standing in the foot. All you have left is social issues, and — surprise! — on social issues, most people who are not you think you’re intolerant at best and racist, sexist, homophobic and bigoted at worst (I know I do).

    Seriously, guys: What does the GOP actually want to be the party of? At this point, and for the last few years, it’s been “The Party of Not Obama.” This is not a good way to run anything.

    2. Deal with your base. Your base is killing you. Did you see your presidential nominee slate this year? I know your base was excited about them, but from the outside we were all, like, “seriously, WTF?” The fact that an unrepentant bigot like Rick Santorum managed to pace Mitt Romney for the nomination as far into the process as he did should have sent up enough red flags to rival Beijing on May Day. Then it makes the (relative) moderates who eventually win the nominations spend too much time tending to its issues and selecting awful vice presidential candidates.

    Sarah Palin terrified the non-base voters she was supposed to attract. That Paul Ryan counts as an “intellectual” in GOP circles speaks to the almost unfathomable poverty of your brain trust at the moment.

    That these two were brought on to bolster their respective presidential candidates with the party’s base should throw up all sorts of warning signs.

    Your base is fine for now with mid-terms, when you’re dealing with house races, and districts that have been gerrymandered to allow for genuinely horrible politicians to be elected (yes, on both sides, but we’re talking about you for now).

    For presidential elections, when you have to deal with a national electorate? They’re a bad foundation. They’re going to keep making you fail. If you don’t want to believe it, two words for you: Akin, Mourdock. If you think they only lost their races, think again.

    3. Accept the fact that the US is browner and more tolerant than you are, and that you need to become more of both of these things.

    By “tolerant” I mean that we’re okay with gays marrying and women deciding what to do with their own wombs and that we think science doesn’t want to shiv Jesus in the night when no one is looking.

    By “browner,” I mean, well, browner. There are lots of Latinos and blacks and other ethnic minorities out there. More every day. And very few of them want to have anything to do with you. Both of these mean that lots of younger white people don’t want to have anything to do with you either, because — again, surprise! — many of the people who they love and grew up with in this browner and more tolerant nation are the folks you spend a lot of time railing against, in code or just straight up. And that’s BS.

    I am a white, well-off, college-educated man married to a woman. And in my family and close circle of friends I have Hispanics, African-Americans, Asians, gay, bisexual and trans people, religious, agnostic and atheist, able-bodied and disabled. You lose me when you classify any of them as the other. They’re not the other; they’re us.

    4. Stop letting your media run you. Look, guys: Fox News and Rush Limbaugh don’t actually care about the GOP. They really don’t. They are in the business of terrifying aging white people for money. To the extent that your political agenda conforms to this goal, they’re on your side. But when you step outside of their “terrify aging white people for money” agenda, they’re going to stomp on you. How many GOP politicians have had to grovel at Limbaugh’s feet because they said something he didn’t approve of? Stop it. Tell him to get off every once in a while. It’ll be good for you.

    And while you’re at it, tell Grover Norquist to get off, too. The fact this dude keeps the lot of you from facing economic reality with that damned pledge of his is an embarrassment.

    These are the things I would start with.

    Do I expect you to consider them? Not really, no. What I expect you to do is the same thing you and your' have been doing for the last forty years, which is to decide that the problem with the GOP is that it’s not socially conservative or fiscally irresponsible enough, cull anyone who doesn’t subscribe to the new tighter and angrier level of orthodoxy and go from there. If that’s the direction you go, I wish you joy in it, and look forward to years and years of Democratic presidents.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  2. Well put, Bob...

    Mike

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  3. Nice Try, but that is your opinion and I expected this from some of you. Kick 'em when they are down, Right?

    Some of it may be correct and in fact the demographics are changing. But you also still are stuck in some preconceived ideas that do not add up.

    Like. Currently In the House there are 9 Republican Latinos and 15 Democratic. Since the Democrats own the urban areas, I would have expected that to be higher. However, there is a large gap between black Dem and Rep Senators and Representatives. But, how come whenever someone of color professes to be a conservative, you guys call them dumb, Uncle Tom's, or whatever else you can think of. Alan West serves honorably in the military but gets demonized by the "more tolerant" party.

    I thought President Obama was going to help the ethnic minorities in the cities? No, it has gotten worse. But Obama inherited a bad situation you say. Well W didn't ask for a minor recession and 9/11 either. By the Way, this President is a whiner. At least Bush didn't whine about it. Not a value to be promoted.

    Your political operatives and media savage every candidate the Republicans put forth. This was the campaign strategy because in the arena concerning the economy, you had a loser. Your President was a flip flop President too. Early on your parties strategy was to Demonize and use class warfare against Romney. He could not shake it until the first debate. In fact, If Sandy had not come along, and the election was two weeks earlier, Romney may have gotten closer and possibly.. well we will never know. Christie fawning over Obama (who did nothing except speechify and have a photo op) hurt Romney. It was a well played strategy. Plus, the Benghazi issue was "forgotten" during the last week by the non right wing media (also known as the mainstream media). Chris Matthews said he was happy that Sandy happened. What? People died. Shows you how little some care about people instead of their careers. How sickening.

    Republicans need to change their message and not let the Democrats set the tone in these elections. How about a reversal. Why should the top 5% percent pay 70% of the taxes? What do the perpetual list of people who are getting public assistance contribute to society? Why has public assistance skyrocketed under Obama? Republicans want people to succeed, not just survive. But they are not getting the right message across.

    The Republicans will lick their wounds and try to reconcile certain items. On that count you are correct. They will re-evaluate and form a plan. Just like the Democrats do when they get spanked.

    Not much really changed in this election regarding the people who ran for office. The Republicans still hold the House. The Senate and Executive Branch are Dem. The Constitution is working quite well at the moment. And The Republicans are gaining numbers as Governors.

    The new crop of Younger (and some not so white) Politicians in the GOP is growing. Marco Rubio is a great example. Bobby Jindahl has been very successful turning around his state. Adam Kinzinger (Young, A Hero, and works with Democrats on common sense bills). Alan West. Not as young but He scares the heck out of a lot of you. You demonize Paul Ryan but he has run circles around the President concerning the budget, entitlements, and fiscal policies. Obama couldn't keep up with him when Ryan pushed him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1yTY2MciOk

    The Democrats have owned the inner city in most large cities and what is happening. Too much unemployment, a break down of the family, too many single parents, too much crime. And the Democrats always blame somebody else.

    But, since families are declining, the GOP needs to address this, immigration, minorities, and how it is perceived. It does have an up hill battle in the arena of ideas.

    Give the unions and the re-election campaign credit on getting the President re-elected. He only had two favorable actions that he could take credit for, Bailing out GM and Killing Bin Laden.
    The left beat the right in propaganda. Making mountains out of mole hills.

    The GOP does need to work and communicate with all people. Romney tried to do that in Philadelphia early on. He was stone-walled but he did try. More of that is needed.

    And the Tea Party conservatives versus the more "moderate" wing. That needs to be looked at and sorted out.

    You can think what you want but many recognize that this group is made up of people from all walks of life. There is a role of government to be played in people's lives, but we believe in the Constitution as a document of Liberty and Freedom. Of opportunity and fulfillment. Individuals vs groups. Independence, not dependency.

    You can try to knock us down but it won't work. Evaluation is needed but not as you prescribe.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  4. So, let's see here. I'll take your word for it on the Hispanic members of the House. You say there are 24 total? So, if 15 are Democrats, that's 62.5 percent, right? The 9 Republicans are 37.5 percent of the universe you describe. When does that ratio get to be significant for you? 2 to 1 is what, an anomaly? Will 3 to 1 make an impression? The GOP has control of the House, so a 2 to 1 ratio the other way among any sub group seems to me to indicate a trend to be considered.

    Since your beginning argument supports my thesis, I'm glad you agree with me.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  5. One of the analyses I read the other day said that McKenna or Dunn, I forget which needed 44% of the King County vote to have a chance. It doesn't matter which one, since harps accompanying a choir of angels will be heard in the atmosphere before that event occurs.

    That's Republican math for you. "If we can just get 4 in 10 of those Bozo's to vote for us, were golden!"

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  6. kootchman
    Member Profile

    30 states are now run by republican governors. Fiscally sound ones too I might add. A couple, brought in to salvage the wake of disasters, Corizon being showcase number one. While the Messiah won the electoral vote.. a little introspection. Obama had less turnout this election. The House is still republican. What has changed? We will see... if the Democrats can compromise and put forward a tax plan that include cuts. There will be no raised taxes until we see the cuts. No, raise taxes now, cut later. That will be DOA at the House. But did ya happen to notice that while unemployment is the same as the day he took office.. black unemployment rise 2 per cent? We will see... but seriously, we have been a minority party for over 50 years... 2% of the population was not a tsunami. Now. on to fixing... maybe now he has a legacy to establish he may do the right thing. Let's see how well he plays his hand... it's pretty much the same one he has had for the last 4 years. If he makes no progress with deficits we have mid terms coming in two years. And we will get to marinate in all those actions he deferred until after the 2012 elections.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  7. Not Washington.

    More Republican math, there are thirty back water hell holes run by us. Pay no attention to California, New York, Illinois, etc.

    Also, there were 11 gubenatorial races in 2012, Democrats won 8. I know that's only 70% of them.

    They'll do better, next cycle.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  8. kootchman
    Member Profile

    Watch ... wait, ... and we will see.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  9. Indeed.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  10. Rich..Alan West is a positive force in your book ? What Bob says makes a lot of sense just because of that.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  11. HMCRich..

    "Nice Try, but that is your opinion and I expected this from some of you. Kick 'em when they are down, Right? "

    C@lbob's analysis isn't what kicked the Republican party on election night.

    Republican policies aimed at the heart of ethnic communities and women kicked the Republican party.

    it's sad to see that you didn't learn anything from that experience.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  12. kootchman
    Member Profile

    Who got kicked? We are right back where we started! Not the end result I wanted.. but.. there is not going to be anything but a kick the can.... Obama is off to Asia... so much for that vaunted leadership. Too funny. On the local level though, we did slap down simple majority spending increases so that Eyeman initiative stands.. that's a plus.. and we FINALLY approved charter schools. Let's all hold hands and pray for a massive upswing.... cause the 112 billion envy tax ... well, what about the other 912 billion? Any ideas where that is coming from? Maybe a total repeal of ALL the Bush tax cuts? Time for ALL of us to put shoulder to the wheel.. for the national good. ? I am ready to do my part. How about y'all? Where is the 912 billion coming from?We will need a GDP increase to about 7.1 per cent. Can he do it before midterms? Curtailed state spending and charter schools... we got some things ... WEA ? Get on board.. the people have spoken.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  13. skeeter
    Member Profile

    kootchman, I thought of you when I saw this video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpAOwJvTOio

    If the Republican Party could somehow manage to get just 25 or 30 percent of the African American vote, it would really change the landscape. Unfortunately for the Republicans, I think there is a pervasive feeling in the black community that Republicans are just bad news. As the lady in the video says when asked why she doesn't like Romney "He sucks. Bad."

    I'm not trying to be funny. I really think the Republicans have to figure out how to get at least some of the African American vote. Getting 52 or 53 percent of the white vote isn't going to do it anymore. Republicans need to somehow get a piece of the growing racial minority vote.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  14. oddreality
    Member Profile

    This is a very good article from VOX which is a "Research-based policy analysis and commentary from leading economists". These are the actual facts about personal responsibility and demographics.

    http://www.voxeu.org/article/which-50-states-practise-personal-responsibility

    Excerpt for those that will not read the article:

    "Economists have long known that, in spite of the rhetoric about 'getting the government off our backs', the red states receive more federal spending, net of taxes, than the blue states. Alaska, Mississippi, Louisiana, West Virginia, and the Dakotas topped the list of moochers in 2005. Despite Romney’s comments, it is the states with high percentages of people who pay no income tax that tend to vote Republican. Mississippi is number one, followed by Georgia, Alabama, Arkansas and South Carolina. The Democratic-leaning states of New England (comprising Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and Vermont), New York, New Jersey, and California are the ones paying into the federal treasury and subsidising everyone else. Updated data show the same pattern in 2007. The mid-Atlantic states, New England, Minnesota, and Illinois are the biggest net givers. Alaskans are the most dependent on the federal government, receiving $7,448 in spending (net of taxes) per capita. (That is not even counting the handouts of oil revenues that they get from their own state government). Those who claim to be fiscally conservative are the ones who in truth tend to be the biggest sources of deficits vis-à-vis the federal government."

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  15. skeeter
    Member Profile

    The U.S. sure is an interesting place. Thanks for the article oddreality.

    I think part of the "confusion" about which states are subsidizing other states comes from past demographics, not current ones. For example, in 1976, the poor southern states were democrat and the wealthy state of CA was Republican. Check out the map:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1976

    A lot has changed in not a whole lot of years.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  16. redblack
    Member Profile

    redblack

    rich:

    Your political operatives and media savage every candidate the Republicans put forth.

    wait. now who's whining?

    crikey, man. the "liberal" media is the only reason lord willard got as far as he did.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  17. skeeter..

    "A lot has changed in not a whole lot of years."

    i think you are indulging in wishful thinking...
    while the political map may have changed.. current stats don't support the changing economic map that kootch repeats endlessly.

    our own state is a very good example...

    Republicans can claim land mass...
    but Democrats not only claim population.. but income
    we are the little engine that could
    that pulls the rest of the nation along behind us

    in spite of the assumption that large population centers encourage entitlements that bankrupt the nation... we pay for our own..and then some.

    and that doesn't even begin to address the subject of corporate and wealth entitlements

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  18. Comparing the Democratic and Republican parties of 1976 to those of today and attempting to generalize the shift in regional voting patterns to economics ignores the reason for the shift in the first place.

    Not to mention that there is nothing that has changed about the south relative California that would make me want to fly south. Not even as far as California.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  19. Speaking of California, I just got my certified certificate of birth from the Golden State.

    Alameda County charged me $25 for the document, but I had to pay an additional $10 for a notary to certify that I am who I say I am.

    So, now I think I could prove to a Florida elections official that I should be allowed to register to vote.

    You know, in 1946 it still wasn't unusual for persons to be born outside a hospital, without a doctor. Particularly in migrant worker camps in the California central valley. I wonder how easy it would be for a Roberto Insignias to do as I did.

    "Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don't need badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and chinga tu madre!"

    -- B. Traven, The Treasure of the Sierra Madre, 1927

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  20. kootchman
    Member Profile

    Ah the red moochers.... first be honest. As you well know, the per capita spending in 'red states" weighs heavily on America's second oldest dependency class, Native Americans, Let's chalk that up to a federal responsibility. That would include, OK, ND, SD, MT, AK AZ NM... now, take that out of the equation. The PER CAPITA recipients of welfare, direct benefits, are, NY at a staggering 19,500 per citizen. Next is of course, CA, then WA DC, followed by ILL, .. you also like to lump in federal expenditures on federal lands and military bases. In that regard, many red states receive more in federal expenditures than the federal government takes in taxes. Those living on the proverbial dole.. are overwhelmingly blue states. Race counts, you are being preposterous. Blacks have a staggeringly high 74 per cent out of wedlock births.. why? Who knows? The social pathology is high... That proves the point.. the higher the dependency, the more they vote Democratic, There are simply more takers than makers. I would vote 95 per cent for Democrats too... if most of my race was simply on the take. If JoB, that was true... then why is that blue money making machine, California bankrupt? Why is Chicago, NY, and Ill the worst states with the deepest deficits? Yes indeed... your talking points are crazy talk. Look at the sheer federa dollars going to NC, GA and Mississippi.... for military, ship building? Pull out those numbers... include Texas. Ahhh and then there is prison populations .. the post HS academy for the the PS school system for millions. California went the way of NY, PA, Mi, NJ.... broke with a dependency burden not too red states want to duplicate. Add New Mexico BLM, Indian Affairs, Sandia National Labratories, White Sands etc etc etc... and there is a tremendous influx of federal dollars... Rural states receive massive federal farm aid... to insure crop supports so banks are assured of repayment of farm loans.. they aren't favors.. they are protections that production credit is payable ... protecting the farm loan program, not the farmer. Price supports insure the producing farm has enough income to pay off their loans if times of surplus or times of crop failures.

    Here are all the negative rated states.... by S&P

    Illinois A+ Negative
    Maine AA Negative
    California A- Stable

    Funny, Mississippi, has a better credit rating than CA !!

    Mississippi AA Stable

    In the main, red states are better managed!

    Standard & Poor's downgrading of the U.S. government’s credit rating does not have any impact on individual states ratings, meaning those states that have the highest AAA rating won't have to face an automatic downgrade.
    There are 13 states that have the coveted Triple A credit rating by S&P, and many other states that have the same AA+ credit rating as the U.S., but with a "stable" outlook rather than the "negative" outlook of the U.S. That’s because bond issuers that have little dependence on the federal government, or that are likely to manage federal budget cuts without hurting their credit, should be able to hold on to their top ratings, an S&P analyst wrote. This database includes all 50 U.S. states and their ratings by S&P.

    Delaware AAA Stable
    Florida AAA Stable
    Georgia AAA Stable
    Indiana AAA Stable
    Iowa AAA Stable
    Maryland AAA Stable
    Minnesota AAA Stable
    Missouri AAA Stable
    Nebraska (ICR) AAA Stable
    North Carolina AAA Stable
    Utah AAA Stable
    Virginia AAA Stable
    Wyoming AAA Stable

    Yes NY generates hugh dollars in the financial, media, insurance, industries... but.... that is half the story. As much as they tax.. lo and behold .. they lead the nation in income disparity, Taxe didn't solve their problem did it? California actually has a declining state GDP.... lumping a state as receiving more or less money is a false argument.... it has more to do with to what use does the federal government put the individual states to...

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  21. Jerry Brown is doing a Jim Dandy job in my native state, and he may have Democratic super majority in the Assembly to go along with the on in the Senate to help him in his quest.

    You see, people look at the cause of numbers, not only on their appearance.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  22. kootchman
    Member Profile

    Yes ? Well why is California having a net ex-filtration of residents?

    Here... this should be fun... the top ten auto manufacturing states..

    #10 IN
    #9 TX
    #8 MS
    #7 OH
    #6 MI
    #5 AL
    #4 KY
    #3 GA
    #2 SC
    #1 TN

    Just what were those causes that has CA in such decline? Of course he will have a super majority.. here's why.... it has the fastest growth rate of federal entitlements for social programs...

    One of my principals.... cannot fill job openings in NY, or CA.... despite being open for over 12 months, all are 250K plus jobs... they decided after long deliberation, to move their west coast regional office to Utah... $$$$ taxes dude... no one wants to get stuck with california's large deficits!

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  23. You think CA can't spare the population, been there lately?

    Thank God those carpet baggers are leaving, finally!

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  24. When I lived in California, the righties were always bemoaning that students and welfare cheats that were coming to take advantage of our liberal benefits.

    Now, as they leave, the righties natter about losing population.

    Get a grip!

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  25. kootchman
    Member Profile

    They are leaving behind... detritus.. more or less. Glad to see you had the sense to move. Now, for gods sake.. don't repeat the mistake. Due they are not nattering.. they can move and they are. You will look like NY.... hollowed out core of what once was. It's the left that is in a panic... their tax base is fleeing. No one left to fund Nirvana..... twenty tin cups for every full wallet. You remember when CA was a top auto producer? Good thing Long Beach has such good container shipping ports. But tell me... the Golden State ,, the public school system that was the envy of the country... yet... Alabama graduates more HS kids. What happened? It ranks 39th in the country!! Wow... Dude WV has a better graduate rate! it ranks 22nd.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  26. You know Kootch, your opinion has no basis in reality. Random points of reference have to be tied together in some way.

    How is that you actually get through a day?

    Do you think non sequiturs are coin of the realm?

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  27. kootchman
    Member Profile

    Well just for you.. I looked up stats... government stats too. Cept' for S&P ... data is no an argumentt... now... back to the question, where you can posit a Non sequitur to any of them... I won't even hold you to them... heck you can ignore the data ... just your "gut" feeling... why is CA going down the drain so quickly? So emphatically? I lived in Cupertino and Los Gatos myself... for a few years... soooo sad.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  28. Just for me? That's BS if ever it flowed.

    You look up unrelated, off topic, noise to confuse the discussion because you think you won't need to deal with reality.

    Regardless of your opinion of credit ratings, demographic movements or business activity in California; the populace there has come to the opinion - and theirs is the opinion that counts - that years and years of Republican governance has been the cause. So much so, that they are willing to give Jerry Brown a legislative mandate that hasn't been existent in California since 1930.

    That opinion appears to be gaining credence in Washington, even though they gave up on Republicans for Governor over 25 years ago. This time, only the Secretary of State will be of that party, statewide.

    Nationally, John Boehner better get a new religion or he may not be in the House in 2015, to say nothing of being Speaker.

    I don't know what personal evidence you have of the efficacy of Republican policies, though I imagine it has to do with ways you are able to squirrel away money. But, your personal preferance is not that of vast majorities of voting citizens.

    So, don't tell me what is good for me. I don't think you know, or care.

    In that way we are in agreement. I don't know, or care, what is good for you.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  29. kootch, give it a rest.

    We won this round, for the most part.

    You got your precious charter schools, and your buddy Tim Eynitiativeman's latest infrastructure destroyer passed as well.

    Mike

    Posted 1 year ago #         

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