Taxes and upcoming votes

[HMC Rich]

Well boys and girls. This political forum is dead it seems. Or is there no joy in the Emerald City? We had some spirited debates and disagreements in the past with respect for the most part.

Now that my property taxes have risen 43% in four years according to an article I read in the Seattle Times, I am wondering if many of you voters are not suffering in the wallet as much as I am.

Now I know McCleary made our taxes go up because of the court decision. And I know ST3 has added fees and taxes. Our city council and Mayor keep trying to add more taxes. I have to say, many of you people voted in our city leaders and may I add, it’s killing me financially.
I ask a favor. Can some of you realize that some of us can’t afford any more taxation? Can some of you realize that my neighborhood is less safe? Can some of you realize that most decisions that affect Seattle are from the people you elected and propositions you passed?

I hope in these next elections we get some candidates that understand business, budgets, and cost effective execution of spending our tax dollars. Are there any Democrats out there that can do this? Can a little fiscal responsibility compete with Social Justice causes? You have run out the Republicans in this city so there isn’t much choice. The choices usually on the ballot are prefers Democrat Party, Progressive Democrat Party, Democratic Socialist Party, and KShama Activist Socialist party. (Damn, her and her minions might try to get me for clicking LIKE on a Facebook post!)

Or is it time to reflect on the OWL party and say …. WE DON’T GIVE A HOOT.
Because it seems to me the City of Seattle has adopted the OWL double acronym. Out With Logic, On With Lunacy.

Enjoy Independence Day. And don’t blow your hand off or burn down my house while letting off illegal fireworks and scaring the poop out of my cats and dogs!

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[T Rex]

HMC Rich, I think most people have gone silent regarding any politics due to the complete hate and fear that is brewing in our country. If you did not vote for Hillary, you are a racist, a Nazi, it goes on and on. Trump is being compared to Hitler for God’s sake. My mind has been blown on the disrespect our country is displaying. And I can bet I will get SLAMMED for these comments, so hide and watch!

As for our local government , I would guess that the members of the WS community may actually agree that we have GOT to get new blood in our city council. I was SHOCKED that a Socialist was actually elected and now as Seattle edges ever so closely to that side of politics, I have to say after living here for over 30 years, I will not be here much longer. The once beautiful city is now becoming filthy dirty, over crowded and way too expensive. We are an exact repeat of what happened to San Francisco. From the politics, being a sanctuary city and now the homeless problem we have. I am sad to say I don’t think there is any turning back. But we were warned weren’t we? Just look north they used to say.

However I am a proud American who will celebrate tomorrow and thank God I am an American.

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[dhg]

Here’s something I’d never thought I’d say: : I agree with HMC Rich. (although still confused by the HMC part…. Her Majesty’s Commander?) Tax collection is at an all time high and the City tells us that, not only do they need more money, but they can’t take care of basics like replacing the Magnolia bridge. One has to wonder how they managed to build one when the population was a tiny fraction of today’s and not nearly so prosperous. The City needs to take off their superwoman capes and sit down and do the hard work: review spending, create budgets and demand value for the tax dollar.

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[anonyme]

Rich, I don’t disagree with you. I consider myself an independent, but there have been no candidates for any office in recent history that I felt comfortable voting for. Both Democrats and Republicans have become extremist; it seems there is no place for moderation any more. The left has become every bit as rigid and dogmatic as the right. Far as I can tell, we have an ever growing class of protected criminals, and the rest of us just pay through the nose to support them. I would like to see several of the many millions thrown away on homelessness go to law enforcement instead. Seattle needs a major crackdown on stupidity. It’s also a shame that to express such views automatically makes you a “Nazi” guilty of “hate speech”…the conversation (if you can even call it that) has become ridiculous.

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[JayDee]

Without veering into the weeds about national matters I have always wondered why justifying a property tax increase >> than inflation and then using the argument that it is merely replacing an existing tax is even plausible. The renewal of “Families and Education” levy is just that. I’ve been voting against such ludicrous tax increases just on this basis for the last 20 years (though I support the McLeary decision). ST3’s argument that my 16-year old car should be taxed as a newer car is just an example. Why is Washington nearly the most regressive state when it comes to taxes?

First the City took parks out of the budget (for some reason) and what did they spend the monies on that formerly went to the parks? I don’t know, and they didn’t say at the time. As for your neighborhood being safe or not it depends on the neighborhood.

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[TSurly]

“Why is Washington nearly the most regressive state when it comes to taxes?”

Because dirt bag, freeloading Republicans will not support a state income tax.

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[heartless]

“Can some of you realize that my neighborhood is less safe?”

Less safe than what?

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[Michael Waldo]

DHG: “review spending, create budgets and demand value for the tax dollar.”
It doesn’t happen because Seattle votes in social justice warriors (which are needed but many as advisers not on the city counsel) and not people who know how government works. We need to vote in folks who have experience managing a budget not because they have a podcast or are a poet. It seems Our city gov is focused on homelessness (which is good) but there are so many more responsibilities. Unsafe bridges, deteriorating roads, ever higher utility bills, parks that need maintenance, grid lock, balancing a budget, hiring more police, basic city management. I read that of the 50 (!) organizations that get money for homeless services, there is no stipulation in the contracts to show results. They get our tax payer money but don’t have to show results! So we are giving away money and have no clue if it is actual helping. Anyway, I vote no on any more tax increases until I am satisfied my money is being spent wisely. I can’t afford any more property taxes!

• This reply was modified 5 years, 9 months ago by Michael Waldo.

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[HMC Rich]

I am seeing that many of you also have tax and city fatigue. I am guessing that if there are some decent voting choices, there could be some changes.

TSurly, please enlighten me on why the state needs an income tax which is not an option for the state and municipalities. Or do you subscribe to the Kshama Sawant view and just would never be a friend of a Republican? (Her words, not mine). The state has a tax surplus at the moment.

And I recently heard the City of Seattle retirement funds/investment portfolios are considered among the worst managed across the country. This city can’t seem manage how they spend and invest money. I am not saying a fiscally responsible person has to be a Republican because most in this area seem to be progressives. But I am saying the current crop of politicians and many from the past have failed us. They are also failing the local government employees current, past and future.

Listen, some private sector/charitable entities ideas actually work and help people. Did you know that the United Way of King County when spending a dollar, 94 cents goes to programs and people and only 6 cents goes to administrative fees?

There is a middle ground even government can reach with the right people in place. I also believe if we can work on some of the local issues without the inflammatory rhetoric, we can get somewhere.

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[heartless]

“(Damn, her and her minions might try to get me for clicking LIKE on a Facebook post!)”

“…if we can work on some of the local issues without the inflammatory rhetoric”

This has been a pretty good rant, thanks!

ps

“TSurly, please enlighten me on why the state needs an income tax which is not an option for the state and municipalities.”

If you truly seek enlightenment, consider yourself enlightened:

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/economy/washington-suffers-most-regressive-tax-system-in-u-s/

https://kcts9.org/programs/in-close/what-s-washington-state-s-tax-system

http://seattlebusinessmag.com/economy/it%E2%80%99s-time-state-income-tax

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[TSurly]

“TSurly, please enlighten me on why the state needs an income tax which is not an option for the state and municipalities.”

States without income taxes rely more heavily on sales, excise and property taxes, which fall disproportionately on moderate and low income families. Basing budgets on the backs of families who lack a stable financial footing is unsustainable in the long run, and it runs the risk of dampening consumer spending that fuels so much of our nation’s economy.

“Or do you subscribe to the Kshama Sawant view and just would never be a friend of a Republican? (Her words, not mine).”

No, my core group of oldest friends (guys I grew up with in a very conservation area of VA) are Republicans. We have heated debates, but in the end there is resolution, mainly on the fact that we agree as to how much of a disaster Trump is. The exception is one guy is this group, who I would describe as the poster child of Trump’s base. An uneducated (failed out of college), misogynistic (Jordan Peterson cultist who loves to refer to women by all kinds of nasty names), racist (openly refers to all people of color by the N word), who blames his lack of success on “Obama Policies”, minorities, and women.

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[heartless]

TSurly, others,

I find it helps to remind both myself and others how few people voted for Trump. It was around 1/4 of eligible voters–in other words more than 8 out of 10 people did NOT vote for him.

As for the rest– good summation of the issue re income tax, I just supplied links because I was too lazy. And yes, I too am friends with Republicans of various stripes (man, it’s like the new “But I have a black friend!”, isn’t it? I only bring it up since Rich raised the question…).

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[HMC Rich]

TSurly, I appreciate your answer. My worry is that once an income tax is started it will go up, up, up, and municipalities and state agencies will still charge or pass new taxes further burdening everyone. With the political makeup of Olympia I sincerely doubt there will ever be a state income tax option. Democrats control the house and senate by the slimmest of margins and Inslee can’t do anything although I bet he wishes he could.

We all know we have to pay taxes. It is our duty as citizens.
Personally I want to throw out the federal tax system and simplify it. Exemptions are great for many people but many people do not take full advantage of it. I don’t see a change in the federal tax policy other than going up and down and special interests trying to get even more exemptions. Locally the current crop of City Council members are too tax happy.

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[HMC Rich]

Heartless, thanks for the input. Regarding Kshama Sawant. Republicans are not the issue and her saying that was only for her base and like minded people. The real concern is for Democrats. Sawant Activists are targeting non allied district leaders. Her socialist party has the ability to put in candidates that have her philosophy in mind. Certain people will follow that movement and the Bernie socialist view is certainly appealing to many of our younger voters.

For my money which she wants more of, she is not a nice person at all. She promotes a national agenda that truly is anti police, and anti business among other items. I am starting to see KILL BEZOS graffiti in many places. Her rhetoric is chilling and is spreading.

I can work with Democrats and appreciate some of the issues fiscally and socially facing our city. Hers is a controlling movement with no remorse and no quarter. Because of her and some others in the council we are losing experienced members of our police force, and now having to call out extra units for safety in numbers of the fire department for emergencies, propping up street people who are damaging property and lives taking services from the truly needy and homeless. Sowing discontent among the younger generation. Excuse the sentence structure please. Sort of a stream of conscious typing.

I fear that the wolf in sheep’s clothing is ready to pounce and there are some Democrats who are just too nice to fight on her level. I am warning you now. You guys had better get ready because there is a gap in strong leadership in that council. Passive Aggressive Seattle loses to Trotskyite based Social Activism and Revolution.

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[JoB]

HMCRich
Kshama Sawant a Trotskyite?
not really

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[dobro]

“Passive Aggressive Seattle loses to Trotskyite based Social Activism and Revolution.”

Wow, one “socialist” member out of a 9 person council and the sky is falling! Rest assured, there are at least 6 solid corporate Amazon/Boeing toadies and a couple of squishy middle grounders on the council.

“I am starting to see KILL BEZOS graffiti in many places.”

And Sawant gets the blame for that? Did you see her graffiti-ing? Or is that just an opinion?

“Because of her and some others in the council we are losing experienced members of our police force”

Any links to any quotes of police officers leaving because of her?

“I fear that the wolf in sheep’s clothing is ready to pounce and there are some Democrats who are just too nice to fight on her level.”

That’s sweet that you think Democrats are so nice. A lot of Repubs think Dems are evil libtards that want to send all Trump supporters to Gitmo.

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[dhg]

dobro: Democrats are too nice, much too nice. Biggest problem with Democrats. We had an effective national voice in Al Franken but a woman’s story of how he kissed her in a play when he was 20-something is enough for him to step down. Republicans want power and won’t let ethics get in the way. Dems fall short of perfection and quit.

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[JoB]

dhg
i would prefer to think that democrats are held accountable
or as in Franken’s case.. hold themselves accountable
unfortunately that isn’t always the case ….

if we accept a lack of ethics as a barometer of success we have lost.

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[dobro]

“My worry is that once an income tax is started it will go up, up, up, and municipalities and state agencies will still charge or pass new taxes further burdening everyone.”

This is exactly why we will never improve our tax system. Even when voters have a chance to move toward a fairer, more progressive tax system the defeatist attitude prevails. Just a couple of years ago there was an initiative that would have levied a small income tax on the most wealthy corporations and individuals in the state (I don’t remember the initiative number, you could look it up). It would have been enough to completely cover the costs of a state sponsored healthcare program and only affect a tiny portion of the populace. And it was something we all got to vote on, not something cooked up by legislators. Result? Not passed. Because “once they start an income tax…”

So, always a good topic for complaining, but no stomach, even among voters much less legislators, to do even the slightest thing to alter one of the most unfair and regressive tax systems among the 50 states.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 9 months ago by dobro.

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[skeeter]

Well I’m not saying it’s right. Or fair. But I don’t mind the extra property taxes because my family is getting the bargain of a lifetime. Mrs. and I are in our prime earning years. We’re making good money and paying zero state income tax. The extra $1,000 or so in property taxes is nothing compared to what we’d be paying in state income tax if we were in Oregon or California or one of the other 43 states with an income tax.

Now… if we moved to Burien or Tukwila we’d escape both the income tax and the high(ish) Seattle property taxes. But I can’t take the commute. So we’ll stay put in West Seattle.

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[JoB]

skeeter..
i think my heart just stopped ;-)
We agree with the concept of being willing to pay the price to live where we do…

choices folks.. we all have choices.
you don’t get to have your cake and eat it too

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[2 Much Whine]

Income taxes are ridiculous! The only people that pay into income taxes are the folks that live here. Every single person that visits from elsewhere to enjoy our beautiful part of the world pays nothing and we are left to shoulder the burden for everything that needs to be done. How can income taxes be an improvement over getting folks from other parts of the country and the world to help keep our economy and government running? Wanting an income tax makes no sense.

I must agree, however, that property taxes are out of hand and I will not support additional increases until there is some accountability.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 9 months ago by 2 Much Whine.
• This reply was modified 5 years, 9 months ago by 2 Much Whine.

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[HMC Rich]

Hi JoB. Howya doin’?

I pulled the Trotskyist term off of Wikipedia because I was interested in her background. Just repeating what I read. I believe she is with Socialist Alternative Party and wants Democratic Socialism in place someday.

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[JoB]

HMCRich
I am still recovering from a double whammy of surgeries a couple of years ago.. but I am still here and my last scan was clear.. so i would say i am doing just fine.

it’s all well and good to bandy terms but it’s probably better if you know what they actually mean.. True revolutionaries turned in their grave when you labeled Sawant a Trotskyite… though i am sure she looks pretty revolutionary to conservatives.

What is the difference between Trotskyism and Democratic Socialism?
byu/creamerlad inSocialism_101

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[JoB]

TooMuchwhine

no tax looks fair when you look at them singularly. You have to look at the totals to compare. For where we live … assuming you aren’t in the process of buying and setting up a house.. our total tax burden is relatively low.

I agree that i wish we got more bang for our buck.. and we should.. but that’s another conversation.

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494/

• This reply was modified 5 years, 9 months ago by JoB.

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