Home › Forums › Open Discussion › Professional vs. Amateur Restaurant Critics
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March 28, 2009 at 8:28 pm #590268
JustSarahParticipantTracy’s response in the “Cafe Revo Rocks!!!” thread suggested that the professional vs. amateur critic debate might be fodder for a separate discussion. Apparently some people don’t like to try a restaurant until it’s been professionally reviewed, or they like to compare their experience with the critic’s. Others take the recommendation of a friend or acquaintance.
I understand people who like to compare notes or trust/not trust a professional critic; however, how will this change with our journalistic landscape changing so much?
As TR mentioned in her response, the Seattle P.I.’s food critic has spun-off on her own. If the Seattle Times shuts down, who knows where their critic will go.
So… where do we draw the line between professional and amateur critics? If you’re in the “I’ll try it after I see a professional review” camp, what would you do if we had no local newspaper? How would you determine who’s “professional” without a major media affiliation?
This is very similar to the ever-blurring distinction between “bloggers” and “journalists,” and I’m curious what everyone out there in WSB-land thinks.
March 28, 2009 at 8:32 pm #662352
AdamOnAlkiParticipantI think the EASIEST (and not accurate) description of amateur vs. professional in the critic world is:
Amateur: pays to try the food.
Professional: gets paid to try the food.
I have always felt that this, again, leaves from for misleading presentation. When you are serving the reviewing, of course your quality will be just that much for spectacular than when AdamFromAlki comes in for brunch. Some reviewers opt to dine inconspicuously to avoid this scheme. But some like the free food.
March 28, 2009 at 8:52 pm #662353
WSBKeymasterSomething I’ll throw in here – the reason that we don’t write reviews here ourselves, of restaurants or anything else. (We did review ONE play a year or so ago.) If it comes to a restaurant, a shop, an entertainment event, I don’t think my opinion matters any more than yours.
I was paid to write arts reviews, years ago, when I worked for daily newspapers. And yet I had no particular background in the arts, aside from my mom having been an actress and my dad having designed movie titles. I don’t think my opinion, in retrospect, was any more valuable than the opinions of whoever read what I wrote. Just so happened that I got to have my opinion published, while the other 100 or so people in the audience didn’t.
Certainly, there are famous reviewers who HAVE studied their specialty – or maybe even have worked in it (imagine a trained chef reviewing restaurants). And sometimes, a very well-written review can be educational, when the reviewer explains the reason for her/his assessments – “The beet puree was clearly made with the Model 560 Cuisinart, which was discredited in the late ’70s after the inventor revealed his inspiration was the piston-firing pattern of the Ford Pinto.”
And yet in the end, it still boils down to: One person’s opinion. (I feel the same way about media endorsements of political candidates, by the way. I want information about who they are, what they’ve done, and what they say they will do, but I could not care less that Editorial Board Z thinks Candidate Y is the right choice.)
March 28, 2009 at 9:09 pm #662354
JanSParticipantTR…I’ve always wondered about the credentials of the food critics…were they given the job, because it was an open position? were they just like you…no real experience, except that they like food?
I agree that one person’s opinion shouldn’t have more weight than any other ..unless there is a real background. The critic may just love the
way the shrimp is cooked in the coffee/balsamic/whatever marinade…and I may hate it…does that mean there’s something wrong with me?
Now..I would trust you as the journalism source, as you have the experience, knowledge, etc..I could have an opinion, but what the he!! do I really know about it..
I like this discussion..thanks for the inspiration, input..
March 28, 2009 at 10:18 pm #662355
JiggersMemberI’d like to interject here because I used to work at 5 star restaurant (in a high end hotel) for 8 years and have over 12 years of restaurant experience. I have been trained by the best in the business(not in Seattle) in how to run and manage the floor and staff. I have been out of the industry for awhile now but have also worked here in Seattle at a few notable places. When I first moved to Seattle over 13 years ago, the restaurant service sucked beyond everywhere. It has got much better–but still lacks common sense floor service. I almost can’t go anywhere nowdays but notice little things that the service staff does or doesn’t do right. But hey.. it isn’t my restaurant so what do I care. I will tip accordingly and am a stricter tipper because I have been there and done that. The saying is that “you are only as good as you were the night before” which is true because most full service restaraunt businesses don’t last more than two years if that. I can sit and observe a restaurant and find a dozen things in a night that I guarantee that would need to be worked on. Owners of restaurants are hard headed and don’t like to be told what to do and how to help improve their business. If I was an owner, I would be more objective to ideas from guests and staff because it is a team effort to be the best that you can be. Last thing I would want is a guest to come in and have a bad experience and when he sees ten of his friends by the pool the next day and say “hey forget Jiggers place let’s go somewhere else it sucks over their” those are ten people who’ll hate my place that hasn’t even stepped inside. My goal would be to make sure that everyone who comes in leaves happy happy happy so they tell their family and friends. Word of mouth advertising is contagious. I can go on and on about this topic. I’m sure an owner would like to hear responses from its guests so it can better itself.
A professional is paid and a amateur doesn’t that’s all. There are consulting groups that are experts in this field. Everything from staff training, cost control to design..
March 29, 2009 at 12:27 am #662356
KevinParticipantMy preference is to hear reviews from fellow readers here on the blog. It is nice to be able to read a number of reviews. You never know when one person had a bad day, or perhaps their expectations were too high. Reading multiple reviews is the best way to get a feel for a place.
March 29, 2009 at 1:07 am #662357
AnonymousInactiveIn response to Jiggers example, hasn’t it been found (through various studies), that people who have a BAD experience will tell about 10 of their friends, on average? While those who have had a good experience tell about 2.
Interesting.
I don’t find that statistic to hold true on here, the WSB, it seems most people who have had a good experience share that info. That’s nice.
I’ve adapted this study into my announcements at work. Whenever we arrive into a city early, I make a point of announcing HOW early we are and remind passengers to tell their friends because we know they tell them when we are late! :)
March 29, 2009 at 1:59 am #662358
alki_2008ParticipantI also like to get reviews from both pro’s and amateur’s. I always thought that pro’s were reimbursed by the paper they wrote for, rather than being comp’d by the restaurant…so that they wouldn’t be given ‘special’ service and would have an experience more in-line with what regular customers would have. I guess this wouldn’t work if the reviewer was recognizable, but how many really are?
Professional reviewers (like movie critics) have their own preferences of what they like/dislike, and those preferences may not match with mine. However, the one thing I’ll say about pro’s is that they’re usually better writers and can describe things more eloquently than some amateur reviewers. Some people are just better writers, and some (like me) would write boring reviews due to lack of expository skills…ie, “it was good”, “it sucked”.
I wonder if professional/paid reviewers generally wait a specific period of time before reviewing a place? I mean, to let the place work out its kinks and hit a plateau…so that its review is more representative, rather than just a reflection of ‘growing pains’.
March 29, 2009 at 6:23 am #662359
WSBKeymasterGuidelines published on the Association of Food Journalists site (a group I’d never heard of before pulling a G-search just now) suggest waiting a month. See the full guidelines here:
March 29, 2009 at 4:33 pm #662360
MagpieParticipantGenerally, your high quality restaurant critics will visit a restaurant they are reviewing more than once, up to 4-5 times before reviewing. They also will note on their reviews that they visited more than once, what they ate, etc. Some of them actually wear disguises so that they can be sure that they aren’t getting special treatment and they can give a decent review. Ultimately, their reviews are not anonymous like so many that are on blogs and they are accountable for what they write. Sometimes I wonder if it is a competing restaurant’s friends who are making the review! There are times I will look at them when I go to another city and am thinking of going out for a nice meal, but I always think of a guy I was behind at Dick’s when he threw his french fries at the man at the window and complained they were flacid (duh!). It is all in the eye of the beholder…
March 29, 2009 at 5:43 pm #662361
joshMemberHello Jiggers,
I have a suggestion, can you please may be consider doing a review for us about Cafe Revo on this blog?
You seem extremely qualified. I guess I have to agree with the notion that during this times it might be difficult to find someone from the “usual sources” to do that. Please give it a thought. It’s just an idea. I also don’t know if there are any rules or policies on this blog against that.
Thank you in advance, Josh.
March 29, 2009 at 6:04 pm #662362
JoBParticipantso josh…
what qualifies someone? i too did my time in the high end restaurant business… and i can cook too ;->
March 29, 2009 at 6:23 pm #662363
JiggersMemberJosh…Someone would have to pay for my dinner. Revo isn’t that cheap to just do a review. Maybe the West Seattle Blog can be my sponsor…lol I’ll give detail for detail even as far as the name of the waiter who picks his ear in front of you while you’re eating…lol
March 29, 2009 at 6:34 pm #662364
joshMemberJoB,
I don’t remember you mentioning your high end restaurant business experience before. I wish you did though. That changes everything. A lot more people, including me, would have takes your posts a lot more seriously. I got the impression that your posts had more to do with the double hold on your card rather then just a restaurant review per say.
I accept your posts on that thread as a review by a qualified professional now. Thank you for doing that, all 3 of my experiences there were quite similar to yours.
Thank you.
March 29, 2009 at 6:35 pm #662365
JanSParticipantI’ve eaten in some high end restaurants …does that mean that I can opine on the subject of restaurant food? lol.. I know what a slurry is, a remoulade, a roux, etc, etc…:D
so…I eat in a restuarant today, and pay for it myself, have an opinion about it…and tomorrow someone pays me to eat there again…and review it…that makes me a professional critic? nice…
I miss John Hinterberger :)
March 29, 2009 at 6:37 pm #662366
JustSarahParticipantJosh, I’d also still like to know what makes someone “qualified” in your eyes. I agree that it sounds like Jiggers likely knows his stuff. I like to think I am fairly knowledgeable as well. I never worked in fine dining establishments, but I spent my time in the service industry. My father has been a chef in many fine restaurants over the years, and my mother was an award-winning pastry chef before moving into finance (odd shift, I know). I’ve been cooking since a very young age. I feel I know food. I also have a writing background, with some journalism experience: so who wants to hire me as a critic? ;-)
But seriously, please share what qualifies someone as fit to professionally review a restaurant. I’m interested in seeing where this discussion goes, but for now I’m going to go enjoy some of that sun!
March 29, 2009 at 6:40 pm #662367
joshMemberJiggers,
So this new place seems so awful to you already that you don’t even want to consider trying it out for yourself and then share your opinion with us???lol
March 29, 2009 at 8:43 pm #662368
AnonymousInactiveI don’t think professional critics have better taste buds or service standards. What they bring to the equation for me is consistency, and hopefully a lack of bias.
When you do it as a job, you don’t bring in an attitude of personal loss/gain. When it’s my dime, I get upset more easily at what I perceive a lack of value and continue to be skeptical throughout the meal. If this is the only time I can afford a nice restaurant, I expect perfection.
A professional would be familiar with nuances, and what is or is not outside the norm. What is a controllable mistake, and what should be expected.
And with regard to consistency, even if the reviewer did not share my preferences, their opinions would still allow me to judge for myself. I would have a starting place that is always the same, not based on emotion or association. As it is with movie reviewers, I know which ones I share opinions. I give their review more weight because I generally agree.
As for neighborhood opinion, of course that is up for consideration and can be valuable. However, in this format, with anonymous identity and the ability to change identities, nothing is stopping friends, family, or competition from flooding the thread.
March 29, 2009 at 10:06 pm #662369
JiggersMemberJosh…It doesn’t seem so aweful to me to not want to go in on my own dime. I just am not craving for Italian food at that price right now. In these uncertain economic times,I can make decent pasta and a nice red wine garlic sauce for way less than going out. I also have a few nice bottles of wine at home to enjoy as well. Anways, maybe I’ll get lucky and find a date that’s worth it and then go to Revo for a dinner. But until then, I like to cook at home at least three to four times a week now. I can cook pretty good. But if I do get to Revo, I’ll let you guys know how my experience was.
March 29, 2009 at 10:16 pm #662370
CaitParticipantI don’t want to know what the judges on Iron Chef think of food (often professionals) because they seem to like beet ice cream and nastiness of that sort and I don’t don’t think we are on the same page. If I want to know what crab tartar in arugula reduction or some craziness tastes like, I’ll ask them. If I want to know what Pasta Sofia Bella tastes like, I’ll ask my neighbors. I think this is a great forum for that and if I can’t do that here where can I do it? West Seattlites flock here like nowhere else and who else knows the tastes/consistency/atmosphere of West Seattle Restaurants better.
March 29, 2009 at 10:46 pm #662371
JiggersMemberI could afford it, but as I have stated before, I’ve been to dozens of nice restaurants over the years not too mention worked in several. Been there done that. I’ve seen it all. Expensive dinners don’t impress me one bit. Service does. Actually Revo is moderately priced. I can cook pretty decent at home so I’m never hungry because cooking for one is harder than you think, you always cook more than you need. Nowday’s, I’d rather just go out and spend $40 dollars on myself and get sloshed on drinks. Way more fun.
March 29, 2009 at 10:57 pm #662372
beachdrivegirlParticipantJiggers you really shouldnt have to justify why or why you dont want to do a review of any restaurant. I’m sorry that it has come to this.
March 29, 2009 at 11:24 pm #662373
JanSParticipanthey…it was in kidding, folks…lighten up, for goodness sake…the sun is shining, and I didn’t read anything insulting in what JoB said, and knowing jiggers the way we do on here, I’m gonna guess that he didn’t take offense (if you did , jiggers, tell me to shut up – hehehe). So…if he’s not offended, why should you three be.
Can we leave personal things out and get back on topic?
Jt..good that you brought up movie critics. I’m not sure who you like or dislike there, but Michael Medved isn’t one of my faves, so I never listen to what he has to say. Siskel and Ebert were damned good, in my opinion…but even then, I’d go to something that they liked, and hate it – lol…yep…guess that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. :)
Jiggers…if you ever get to Revo…the antipasti de giorno is really, really good…that and a caesar salad would be a great dinner for me…oh, and maybe one of those foofoo drinks…the Toblerone Revo is…well, yummmmmmmmy – lol…
March 29, 2009 at 11:34 pm #662374
JiggersMemberNo need be sorry. BDG. I can hold my own and more. I love good argument and can dish it back. We are mostly in the same boat in these economical uncertain times unless your name ends with Allen or Gates. In fact, I’m actually trying out new healthier recipies now since the economy has affected me. It’s all for the better for me in the long run. The more you know how to cook for youself the longer you’ll live. It’s a fact. I used to eat out a lot when I was younger. I actually plan the food week ahead, something I never used to do. Sorry to digress.
March 29, 2009 at 11:38 pm #662375
JanSParticipanthmm…mebbe we should start a “I’m eating healthier at home” thread…exchange ideas, recipes, etc. It’s been tough lately…blood sugars went wacko in surgery 2 weeks ago, now trying to really behave…finding those recipes that give the basic amt.’s of fruit and veggies that you’re supposed to have per day. Just remember…someone might try your recipe and not like it…getting back to professional vs. amateur reviews ;-)
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