Off leash dogs at non off leash parks (like Hiawatha)

[walfredo]

Alki- I guess I’m misunderstanding… To me, even if you call the non-emergency police number to report someone going 35 in a 30 mph, you are being a bit too proactive.

I am a firm believer that most laws have a lot of gray area, and are not always wise. But I do fully understand that anytime you disobey the law as written you take a risk.

I guess my point is to plead to the “activist” dog patrol folks on here, to at least use some discretion with there activism. Not every case is the same, and the overwhelming majority of owners do a good job controlling there pets, and looking after them whether on or off leash… Those whose are out of control, and disrupting others, or worse threatening them should be reported.

And I totally agree with New Resident, anyone who has seen a dog run on a sandy beach, they definitely go hand in hand. If California and Hawaii or okay with there beaches having dogs, Seattle seems a bit uptight to me…

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[keleeso]

I have had dogs my whole life and I believe they should be kept on leash unless they are in a designated off-leash area. I was once walking my sister’s greyhound and my husky, when an off-leash dog came running up – I hollered to the owner to please put her dog on leash and she scowled at me and ignored me. About that time the greyhound took off to meet the off-leash dog -the problem was she was on her extend-o-leash and I wasn’t smart enough or quick enough to drop the leash so the greyhound got whiplash as she got to the end of the leash and I felt like my arm was going to be pulled off my body. After that, I was afraid that arm was going to be 2 or 3 inches longer than the other one!

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[guidosmom]

Once again this week (now it makes 4 times just this week), this happened! Last night I was walking my Guido in Lincoln Park, on a leash. Suddenly a much larger dog came running towards us, growling and looking pretty aggressive. The owner was at least 40 feet away and didn’t even bother trying to call her dog back, instead she jokingly said to her friend “oh, I guess it’s time to put him back on a leash.” You think?? For the first time in a long time I didn’t even have my phone on me.

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[amrakx]

I live on Alki Beach and jog/walk the park and beach area daily between the hours of 7am and 10am in the mornings and in the early evenings. The no leash violators are pretty much the same repeat offenders who disregard friendly reminders from neighbors and posted signs. I continue to report their indifference. Animal control responds with “4th time repeat offender”. It’s a frustrating cat and mouse game.

I have respect for those of us who keep our dogs leashed and have regard for rules and regulations. If you don’t subscribe to the formula which keeps organization and order in society then perhaps you should seek an alternative lifestyle elsewhere.

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[JimmyG]

I’ve had some success with the following tactic:

1. Off leash dog comes bounding towards my dog and me.

2. I ask the owner nicely to control/leash their dog.

3. Owner says “oh he’s friendly, he just wants to say hi.”

4. I tell them my dog is highly contagious.

5. They get all concerned and rapidly grab their dog and at the same time ask me what the disease is.

6. I explain that my dog has that “disease where his owner keeps him on a leash–it’s called following the law”. I wish them good luck that their dog will catch the disease.

7. We walk away.

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[JoB]

Walfredo…

i have been bitten when an off leash dog who “don’t worry he’s friendly” approached my leashed dogs… even though i tell the owner loudly and immediately that my dogs are not pet friendly …

the off leash dog owner acts as though i am the problem.. even as i get scratched and bitten because i am the only one of us brave enough to step in and separate the dogs…

they stomp off in a huff generally cursing at me without giving me contact information… completely offended that i would take such vicious animals into the park.

They just don’t seem to get that they are responsible for having their dogs off leash.

So far, my dogs have not injured another dog.. they just lunge and snarl and snap and sound like they will kill them..

They won’t actually attack another dog.. but they will let a dog that tries in any way to dominate them know the error of their ways.. no matter how big that dog is…

on the other hand, my dogs and i have all been injured at one time or another by one of those dogs responding by attacking…

can you explain to me why their right to walk their dogs off leash in a public park trumps my right to safety?

i walk my dogs on leash and away from the paths used by most dog walkers. any time another dog will pass mine.. i move my animals off the path and make them both sit at attention…

when the other dog is on leash.. that works. In fact, those owners who walk their dogs on leash seem to recognize that as an indication their dogs shouldn’t interact with mine.

those who walk their dogs off leash are mainly another story…

i too would like a nice walk in the park with my dogs… even if i have to go to extra effort to control interaction with my pets.

And i could have that every time if other dog owners simply leashed their pets when not in off leash areas. As it is.. there is generally one altercation or near altercation on about half of my walks…

My story is only different because i have dogs that can and will protect themselves and me.. unlike those who have had their animals mauled and been bitten trying to protect them from other’s unleashed and uncontrolled animals…

When you get a dog.. regardless of what kind of dog you get.. and how well trained it is.. you become responsible for that animal… and that responsibility includes both protecting your dog from harm and protecting others from harm caused by your dog.

If you want to walk your dog unleashed, drive somewhere you can do so safely… or make sure that you have a large fenced yard.

If you want to walk them leashed on the beach go north to shoreline.. or over the sound to the Olympic Peninsula where the beaches aren’t so crowded and they don’t prohibit dogs. If you want to walk on the beach unleashed .. head for the northern ocean beaches where you can walk for miles without encountering another person or dog.

I know that requires some effort… but it’s what you agreed to when you got a dog.. and, it’s what i do.

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[charlabob]

For another approach to dangerous dogs, check out the fourth comment to this article. Just shoot ’em.

Mayor proposes gun ban on all city-owned property

Somehow I’m not comforted by the idea of a park full of dog-owners with concealed carry permits.

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[walfredo]

JoB- i’ve got a beach across the street, and its very uncrowded. My dog likes to run out, and swim in it. I pick up others trash in the park while I’m down there, and care a lot about the safety and upkeep of the park. Being a part of the neighborhood, I’d say quite a bit more then the average user…

I get bothered that, from my perspective, the rules or standards in our society seem to always get set by the people who are offended the easiest and who make a big stink about getting there opinions heard.

My initial point, and really only point, is that I thought it sounded more then a bit hysterical reading the early posts about calling 9-11 to report offleash dogs, and carrying fire arms on walks to protect yourself. I think that is nuts, doesn’t make me right or wrong… Just my opinion.

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[WSMom]

I have to admit, everytime I have to put my wet stinky dirty dogs in my car to drive 15 minutes back home from the off-leash dog park I’m wishing that the city could fence a small corner of every park as a dog run area. Just a little corner of a park I can walk to where I can throw a ball for my pup and let her get some energy out. Obviously, folks have VERY strong opinions about dogs running off leash in neighborhood parks, I just wish we could find a happy medium.

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[j]

Thank you WSMom!!!

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[JoB]

Walfredo…

i don’t think the rules in our society are so much set by those who are offended the most as by those who are most irresponsible…

my current dogs won’t ever be off leash dogs.. probably not even in an off leash park… but my last dog was so well trained that i could leave a hamburger on the dashboard and walk away and she wouldn’t touch it… and she was often off leash.

I did choose off times when the area was uninhabited… and out of the way places… so i was responsible… but every time i walk the dogs i have now i think about what might have happened had she approached dogs like these…

I run into responsible dog owners who are walking their dogs off leash in the park in the same out of the way places i go and who immediately either call them to their side or put them on leash when i call out that my dogs aren’t dog friendly..

but far more often i run into those who think they have the right to have their dogs off leash.. legal or not.. and who have little or no control over those dogs.

I am not offended, i am endangered… as are those owners and their dogs.

I too wish every park had at least a small dog enclosure where dogs could meet and greet off leash. i think everyone would be happier…

i think there should be at least an area at the beach where leashed dogs are welcome. it is a long drive to shoreline or a long ferry ride to the peninsula to let my pups chase waves… and dogs do love to chase waves.

i also think dogs should be allowed to be part of family picnicks if leashed… but there are many parks where my dogs can’t even get out of the car… and lately i stopped at one where they couldn’t even be in the car in the parking lot:(

if everyone was responsible.. there would be more dog parks because the owners would pick up after their dogs and monitor their play… dogs could be on beaches because owners would pick up after them and keep them from chasing wildlife… but some people just aren’t responsible…

I would never call 911 unless i was in immediate danger.. but i would call animal control about unattended dogs or owners who constantly violate leash laws and don’t have their dogs under control because those owners badly need to be educated…

The biggest problem with irresponsible owners is that the laws have no teeth…

Violators should have to attend education classes and take their dogs to puppy school.

repeat offenders.. especially of abandonment and abuse.. should be prohibited from owning animals…

if there were consequences, people would think twice about making the commitment to own an animal… and i think everyone would be happier and safer for that.

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[flowerpetal]

I’m one of those off-leash offenders and will continue to do so. We take walks three times daily. She runs to greet neighbors she knows and stays near me on command. I can walk her right past a cat sunning itself on the sidewalk and with my voice command she will keep walking (even though I know she wants to chase the kitty!) I have never left her poop behind; I often pick up other trash while on our walks; and watch out for my neighbors, especially the elders. She sits at the curb before an “O.K.” to cross the street and she ignores small children.

At one time I had to carry a walking stick to fend off a German Shepherd who got loose too often; but I’m not sure if I carried the stick for the dog; or to whack its owner who seemed to have less sense than his dog. Fortunately he has sold his house and moved far away from WS.

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[Anonymous]

I find it interesting that, in your post, you both claim a dog owner who let their dog roam, without a leash, had no sense, and also claim you do the very same thing.

It is different, in your eyes, because your dog is better behaved? Unfortunately, the leash law is in place for EVERY dog. You are not exempt from the law because you “believe” your dog will always listen to you.

I understand that you will “continue to do so”, so I guess you should be ready to face the consequences of having the animal control called to report you.

I definitely agree with the need for more “off-leash” areas and I am a dog owner and lover, I just cannot tolerate “I am above the law” attitude.

Sorry if this offends.

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[flowerpetal]

I’m not sure where you got that I said I am above the law, nor do I get where you read that my dog roams. I said neither.

I could have written my above post a little clearer. The German Shepherd was not simply loose and roaming; she charged at us with teeth bared until she got a whack from me. She only needed that once.

No need to be sorry if your post offends. For myself; I find that if I am writing “sorry if this offends” I either delete that line or I delete my whole comment because I really don’t want to offend the intended reader.

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[Anonymous]

Well….. I truly am sorry if it did offend, but I thought that it needed to be said.

We have about 2 of these threads started a month, because the majority of people follow the law and leash their dogs (when not at an off-leash park). People get frustrated when others do not follow the law.

Serious consequences can occur, the proof of that is throughout this thread and the several others regarding this same topic.

People “think” their dog would never do anything harmful, but a dog is still an animal, you don’t always know what it will do.

I’m glad that your dog minds you. The fact that you are unwilling to follow the law and leash your dog is, sorry to say, an “I’m above the law” attitude. How is that confusing?

I am simply letting you know that more people than not DO leash their dogs and are more than willing to report those who choose not to.

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[flowerpetal]

NR, thanks for letting me know what more people do. And you are right, there can be serious consequences as I have read here and elsewhere.

I suppose we are all above the law then, when we drive our cars even a few mph above a posted speed limit; or when we cross the street outside of a cross-walk. Maybe its the term “above the law” that we use differently.

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[amrakx]

Right on NR, arrogance is simply ignorance.

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[Mama]

Guidosmom, when I read your initial post, it sounded similar to my story. Our small dog, minding his own business, was attacked by a large off leash dog “who never did anything like this before.” We were all traumatized and still are: me, the dog, and my little girl who witnessed the brutal attack on her pet. The dog survived after a hospital stay, but I had to miss work to nurse him back to health, and the vet bills were close to $2000, which the large dog’s owner was forced to pay, after I had to hire a lawyer. My daughter was so traumatized that she missed school and needed counseling, and to this day she cannot take our dog out for a walk.

It took a long time for me to be able to go out again for a walk with my dog. Unbelievably, there have been other incidents as well, where I have had to put my dog up on top of some stranger’s car out of an off leash dog’s reach, or hoist him high above my head while screaming for help. Every single time I go out with my dog, I am fearful that an off leash dog will terrorize us, and I should not have to live like this! I now carry a baseball bat with me, which I will not hesitate to use the next time an off leash dog comes running in my direction.

So to all you off leash dog owners: I think you are all selfish, thoughtless, and inconsiderate. If you could put yourself in my place, and see it from my angle, maybe you would put a leash on your damn dog.

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[JoB]

flowerpetal,

this is an honest question..

if your dog is well behaved and under voice control.. it is unlikely that you let your dog more than 26 ft from you.

did you know that is the length of the longest retractable leash?

Why not walk your dog on a retractable leash to make everyone who passes you feel safer?

It doesn’t sound as though the leash would interfere in your walks.. and you have to carry a bag anyway…

some of the newer ones even include lights and alarms and might turn out to be useful.

an honest question.. not a challenge…

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[JoB]

mama..

i am so sorry for what happened to your family…

and even sorrier that the owner of the other dog didn’t step up to the plate when it happened.

there is no excuse.

i hope you never have to use your bat… and would hope you would reconsider carrying one… pepper spray is less intrusive and equally effective…

the trouble with venturing forth armed most of the time is that instead of creating feelings of safety.. it generally just reinforces fear.

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[melissa]

Thank you, Walfredo and Flowerpetal, for your thoughtful discussions of exceptionsto this absolute law. Yes, it’s the law, but guess what fokls, I’ll bet some of you have gone over 25 in a 25 zone. I’ll bet some of you have had a rowdy party that went after 11 pm after you checked that your neighbors weren’t bothered. I’ll bet some of you have even smoked a joint once or twice in your lives. Maybe you’ve even crossed at a no walk sign when the road was completely empty. And guess what, if you have then you are a pernicious lawbreaker, just as we are. Only maybe not so pernicious after all, eh? Sure, if your dog is not on voice command, if you don’t pick up after your pet, then it’s a problem. But really, folks. Some things it makes sense to be absolutist about, others? not so much.

So thanks again, moderate and responsible folks.

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[JoB]

melissa..

the biggest problem i see with that argument is that it is often used by those who just have a beer or two before getting behind the wheel of their car…

drunk driving is a victimless crime until you hit something or someone.

breaking the law is ok until the unexpected happens..

and the likelihood of it happening increases when you are break the law.

the question might be.. how willing are you to step up and assume all the costs of your recklessness if the unexpected happens?

Obviously, vet bills were the smallest cost of mama’s encounter…

i agree that responsible pet owners would have stepped up to the bills without an atty… but how do they make mama or her daughter feel safe again?

these are entirely preventable encounters. it is such a small thing to put your dog on a leash.. and could do so much for so many.

i honestly don’t understand the reluctance.

I am considering muzzles for my dogs this summer since there are so many people in the parks… not because i think my dogs will bite someone without provocation..

but because muzzles will both reassure and warn off those who might otherwise interact with my pets without asking first.

if i am considering muzzles.. it doesn’t seem such a leap to me to expect others to leash their pets.

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[guidosmom]

Mama, I am SO sorry! Your story breaks my heart. Your poor daughter! Good idea carrying a bad. Someone I know carries one of those loud blow horns with her when she walks her dog. I hope you, your daughter, and your dog never encounter an off leash dog coming towards you again. I am SO sorry. Thank you for sharing your story.

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[charlabob]

Flowerpetal, I just want to express my admiration for your original post. NOT because I agree (or disagree) — because I know how difficult it is to express an unpopular opinion and to know you’ll be pounced on from every direction with varying degrees of vitriol.

I have a lot of respect for someone who logically articulates any position that is out of the mainstream. Thank you for that.

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[Anonymous]

Ummm, charla – this isn’t about flowerpetal having an “unpopular opinion”, it’s about not obeying a law.

You respect that?! Interesting!

Honestly – I think if you feel strongly about certain laws that are in place, there is a way to responsibly take action. Why not contact the city, start a petition, get a group together to change the law or make it more lenient.

By simply ignoring this law, you are putting other animals, other people and your own pet in danger.

Likening this to smoking a joint is about the lamest argument I’ve ever heard, same with driving five miles over the posted speed limit. Ridiculous argument!!!!

Oh, and guess what, charla, I, too, know what it’s like to express an unpopular opinion, NOT have a single person stick up for me (after I was under the impression that I DID have friends on this forum) and made out to look like the bad guy!

Keep in mind, that was simply for having an “unpopular opinion”, this topic is about blatantly breaking the law.

Some things on this forum just astound me!!!!

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