Military Incursion at Garfield High

[Kathy Barker]

The private schools have the legal right- unless they are getting gov’t funds- to say no to the recruiters. I am sorry your school- which one is it?- didn’t protect you better.

Because one day you will probably realize that 18 is not adult. The frontal lobe, where decisions are made, isn’t developed until 25, 26. Cars rental places won’t rent to people under 25 because of high risk behavior. This is a time when we adults should be protecting kids, not pushing them forward to fill a quota. Kids join for honorable reasons- but adults are very dishonorable for facilitating recruitment, especially of the vulnerable, in the schools that should protect them.

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[365Stairs]

18 is not an adult? 18 year olds can still vote right?

So, what you really saying is 18-24 year olds cannot possibly think for themselves?

So, 18-24 year olds are mentally incapable of deciding what is a good or bad choice?

They wear funny clothes these days…but certainly you have more faith in our 18-24 year olds right?

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[pattilea]

My son went to Seattle Lutheran High School, that is where he met his recruiter! (“Kathy Barker You don’t have to look far for inequality- kids in private schools aren’t recruited. Kids with money have more options.”) All kids have options, it’s where they choose to use those options, studying at school making good grades. Not to say we have money, we could have paid for his college, along with his scholarships, our son did well in school. He made an informed choice.

I think more than recruiters being at the high schools with the bling isn’t an issue. There are the video games ect that glamorize war and fighting. If they are going to join because of the bling, maybe they have low self esteem, or low family values. And boys being boys think it’s cool, but won’t join just because it’s cool!

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[kootchman]

Check the parking lot…. the Marines might have a couple kids turning on spit and shooting dice for the livers. Funny…. all the liberals…. “if they take any federal money they should follow the federal rules”…. oh did we hear that ad nauseum re: religious objections to birth control and…. that was a “Janism and a JoBist chant… well…. now… if you take federal money, recruiters should be welcome on campus…. and no one with a sense of moral outrage should be allowed to protest right? Take down every picture, every drivel statement from Ms. Barker … we can’t tolerate objections to “the state” can we? Garfield making restrictive access rules? Take away federal lunch, milk,scholarships, technology grants, etc… all of it.

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[Kathy Barker]

Of course I don’t think 18-24 year olds can’t think for themselves. I mean no offense! BUt our brains develop predictably- google it, and you’ll see. Look at car crash rates, drinking rates, etc- risky behavior is part and parcel of youth because the emotional part of the brain isn’t yet well-regulated by the executive part. Impulse control is lower than it will be. Schools and recruiters take advantage of this lowered impulse control.

Take a look at the recruiting manuals, and see how recruiters are urged to approach kids at vulnerable times (when grades come in, for example). This is a heavy-duty, psychological manipulation that goes on. Yes, I know that advertising, etc. does some of the same things. But not like this.

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[365Stairs]

Bottom line…recruiting IS allowed today. If the Marines in the pictures violated some school rule…you have the avenue to file your grievance.

Last thing…Without the Gunnery Sgt. Recruiter that came to O’dea HS in 1988, I would not be who I am today…period. Sure, I cursed his name in boot camp (everyone does!)…but taking that first step was due to him.

I will not debate this further…

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[kootchman]

Ms. Barker we understand that fully. In fact, it is exactly why we want to by-pass the frontal lobe. Get caught in a firefight… we want limited impuse control… we want an immediate, conditioned, trained for response… it will save your life and kill your enemy. The best result of a bad situation. But… if it is as you say… let’s take away the right to vote…the immature impulse to receive gifts and goodies overrides higher thinking… perhaps why they vote Democrat so heavily… they can’t control the immediate reward impulse. American fighting forces have been at this for a few hundred years now… it’s no coincidence.. we know how to train lethal men and women, It’s what we do in your name…you sent us…now get out of the way and let the pros do their job. Later..if they stay as career .. then planning, strategy, the intellect of war goes to progressively older, higher order thinking Staff NCO’s and Officers. But gosh darn it…. as lamentable and naive as your presence is… be glad so many sacrificed so you can protest away…..

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[Kathy Barker]

I am not a liberal, by the way. I actually don’t think those labels are useful, another way to just disregard what someone says.

This isn’t a liberal or conservative issue.

Please, pattilea, do you really think all kids have the same options? Your kids are lucky if they have options- I can assure you that there is no equal playing field in the high schools.

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[DBP]

pattilea: You are arguing from the perspective of one who’s had a happy ending. (Also known as “the gambler’s fallacy.”)

Everything turned out all right for your kid, so it must be a good deal, right? Well, honestly, I’m happy that it worked out for you. I believe you’re kid probably made a reasonably informed decision. But do you think the Marines take pains to make sure every recruit is making the right choice? Highly doubtful.

I never heard squat from my kid’s recruiter, and all the time he was chatting her up, right there in high school. Got her to sign the papers and wasn’t even man (or woman) enough to come talk to me about it. I’m sure my kid told him I wouldn’t approve, but so what? He still should’ve run it by me.

If my kid had gotten fkked up when she was in Afghanistan — which she almost did — do you think that recruiter would’ve been here changing her bedpan for her every day?

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[Kathy Barker]

Interesting tie of religion to the military….love to be around to discuss that one, but I am off to work. Goodnight, all.

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[kootchman]

Thank you pattilea…your sacrifice is no small one. It is profund. All three of my brothers served, one after graduating from Colgate, one after, Syracuse U, and two of us out of HS, one drafted. One Marine Officer, One Army Officer, Two Marine enlisted. Who later to graduate summa cum laude and magna cum laude from two major universities.., in no small measure due to the men they became. All were sons of 101st Airborne paratrooper, Normandy veteran, awarded bronze star, two purple hearts and a POW, who was the son of a US Marine who lost an arm in the Battle of Belleau Wood.

Neither generation wanted the successive ones to follow in the same tradition. 365Stairs…. still have the yellow footprints when ya get off the bus…?.. ha ha ha…. hard day to ever forget! Here’s the better question you might ask as Ms. Barker, DBP… who IS changing the bed pans, helping with the physical therapy, re-patterning the trauma head injuries, those that DID stand on the wall for you? Ms. Barker..Check the campaign ribbons on the chests of those recruiters….and think what should I be thanking them for… Probably can’t read them anyway.. or know what they represent I am willing to bet. One thing they all learn…. no, there is no level playing field, and never will be…but most also learn how to rectify that. Something happens after you are “given” a 5 million dollar M!-A2 Abrams, the lives and welfare of your crew, the technical training, leadership skills, and initiative to best use that asset… that overcomes a tilted playing field inherited from the moribund public school system that churns out mediocrity and low expectations.

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[waynster]

One thing I will say on this subject I do believe all high school grads and collage grads should spend 2 years or more in the Military active duty or reserves or a form of gov service in the national park system or other national programs. Most at this age need an out to see how life is outside the home and it opens up benefits they would never have. Wait most would say I am a librial this is the one thing even I will stand on yes the military is not for everyone then again you don’t know until they try it. Life is a hard road and the road ahead is hard. The military doesn’t train you to hate it teaches team work and responsablity and things most are affraid to teach their kids today how to respect others…..

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[kootchman]

waynster? Is that you? ….. y’know Ms. Barker, it may be a “Foxism” but this coddling, may also be the reason that over 75% of graduating college students go home to live with mommy and daddy…. and live in a state of protracted adolescence. After mommy and daddy have wiped their butts and noses for 30 years, then they look for the state to do it and take over after mommy and daddy. I know it comes as a hard shock…they will meet stronger, smarter, yes, even better, men and women. They won’t be told “they are just as good, just as valued just as worthy” …. they will see men and women to emulate. They will find that mentoring is a two way street…. mentors invest in those that are active in seeking it. They will find out that the way to level a playing field is “up” their game. Yea, we all want no more wars,,, we all say it, we all mean it, but damned if we still have to have trigger pullers from time to time. If no more than to preserve your right to mortify any teens you may have attending HS that see you storming through the hallways your divine mission. Let them grow up! BTY that “sword” on the wall of the truck was presented to Lt. Presley O’Banion… and worn by the officer corps of the USMC since… doing what they have done for hundreds of years… taking down bad guys who prey on civilians…. “to the shores of Tripoli”… even. Libya is old familiar real estate to the USMC… even before Khadafi.

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[kootchman]

And just for tidbit and fun… When Jefferson and Adams went to London to seek the release of enslaved US merchant sailors from the Barbary states… our very first encounter with Muslims as a newly formed nation…. and to stop piracy and ransom of a then non-belligerent state… the reply?

Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman in reply…….

“It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every mussulman who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise. He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemy’s ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once”

Send in the Marines. Was the reply of Jefferson.

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[Cait]

I think, as with most things on the forums, the answer is compromise. I always thought it was strange that we never had a formal presentation from recruiters, I would have liked that. The tactics they used always seemed super lecherous to me and I never paid attention to them even though I don’t think the military would have been a bad option for me in some capacity. I would have liked to sit down and here a legitimate pitch for military involvement rather than being bombarded in the hallways. I think it’d be better for everyone that way.

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[Kathy Barker]

The way recruiting is done is one of the reasons for my report,, so thank you, Cait, for bringing that back.

A presentation of issues, a debate, intellectual discussion would be so good for students! It is the suspension of critical thinking that is disturbing in the kind of recruiting visit we just had at Garfield.

And the other point I wanted to make is that this kind of recruiting is against policy. The military recruiting offices know that. Our district needs to tighten the rules to stop this kind of disruptive visit to high school.

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[waynster]

Yes Kootch its me and I stand by what I said…. There is nothing wrong with the way schools let the military recruit. Sad how some think that a military show and tell is disruptive to a high school. Yet its ok for collage sports recuiters come in and promise them that they can make millions in sports. These are young adults at age 17 or 18 and some see it as a way out some see it as a career and others don’t want no part of it…. It is still good for kids today to see what the military has to offer and high school is one of the best places….

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[Kathy Barker]

There is no comparison between sports and military recruiting in schools!

Military recruiters are the only people by law who have to be allowed in. How does that help students give equal and fair consideration to all options?

Please go visit your local high schools- look around- you won’t see sports recruiters sitting in the cafeteria. They are tightly regulated.

If they did what the Marines did the other day, they’d be banned. As would peace recruiters. Or college recruiters.

If you go visit a high school, ask to meet the college and career center counselor. Guess what? You probably won’t find one. The position has been defunded. Does that help students pick a direction in life?

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[waynster]

Thats right Sports recruiters don’t but the alumni do you have never been around a sports player who’s being targeted have you didn’t think so….Once again it doesn’t hurt to let theses kids have a choice. We let them see violent movies play violent video games and we won’t let them see what the marines can do for them please…. as far as I’m concerned they should be allowed in along with the Navy the Army and the Air Force and the Coast guard….. bring all the bells and whistles its only show and tell….infact they should make it a 2yr mandatory for them all…

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[Kathy Barker]

We can’t control what happens outside schools. We have policy to control what happens in schools.

The Marines broke the rules. What does this have to do with choice?

Only the military is mandated to be in schools. What does this have to do with choice?

I hope that those who feel strongly will go to the SPS school board meetings and say why you want policy changed. Then there can be an open debate about military recruiters in schools.

But with the rules being what they are, why would anyone think it is okay for the Marines to break the rules? SHould they be treated even more specially than anyone else?

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[casaboba]

OP clarification requested: Why are we debating an alleged military recruiting violation at a North Central Seattle High School (Garfield) in the West Seattle Blog? Are we expecting a repeated recruiting violation Marine “Incursion” at Chief Sealth or West Seattle High Schools?

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[DBP]

Hi casaboba. OP here. This discussion applies to West Seattle because it applies to the SPS recruiting policy, which applies to ALL Seattle schools. As Kathy notes in the letter, the recruiting policy is currently under review. It would be good if SPS could hear from more of the parents on this.

Think I’ll drop it now, though, unless people show more interest.

If you want to know more about Kathy’s organization, it’s here: http://www.watir.org/Welcome.html

Anyway, casa, thanks for contributing your voice to the discussion.

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[casaboba]

Thanks DBP for the clarification. I wasn’t sure if this was a gripe session or some kind of call to action. I hope that future SPS “incursions” have been prevented by your effort. Good luck!

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[kootchman]

While you are at it… see if you can improve the 35% drop out rate, the dismal SAT scores, and qualify the kids to attend the four year higher ed institutions we support without remedial math and reading classes too. Would it be that they got an education that gave then full access to life options. Work on that one.

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[JanS]

Kootch…you don’t add anything but griping to most conversations, do you?

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