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June 6, 2008 at 9:47 pm #618797
AnonymousInactiveuh, well I am not proud of some of the things I said but it was chet or some variation. I think it is great that everyone is so much more of a community now with fund raisers and meet ups etc.
June 6, 2008 at 9:51 pm #618798
beachdrivegirlParticipantthanks- and hey if only i had a $1 for every time I have regreted saying something but thats life. :)
June 6, 2008 at 9:56 pm #618799
AnonymousInactiveI feel like I would not be welcome / be sort of ashamed at the stances I took but want to be apart of the meet ups like BPP.
June 6, 2008 at 10:28 pm #618800
charlabobParticipantregrets? moi? Yeah! wsblover — I’m sure you’ll be welcomed and I hope you’re coming to bpp. Please??????
June 6, 2008 at 11:18 pm #618801
AnonymousInactivewsblover – If I showed up, you can show up.
But, I will admit, the first get together I attended, I was shaking because I was so nervous. It was right after I had gotten into a heated debate with some people and I wasn’t sure how people would react to meeting me.
Needless to say, it went well and now I have some great new friends fro all this!
Please do come!
June 7, 2008 at 5:43 am #618802
JanSParticipantspeaking of reading books…if any Reps out there want to read “The Audacity of Hope”, I can be a lending library :)
wsblover..politics is politics…it doesn’t define you…we disagree, and hey, it can be like that in lots of areas of life. I love my parents, both staunch Repubs from the beginning of time…we just don’t talk politics much – lol..if we were all the same, think how boring it would be.
We do hope you come on the 14th. I have met some great people on here, have made friends, gotten a client or two…and when I first met NR, we gave each other a big hug…so…you’d better be there or be square :)
June 10, 2008 at 5:05 pm #618803
TrickParticipantWhat goes through McCain’s head when he fights against the G.I bill, but can spend $600 billion for Iraq, and yet his own education was paid for by our tax dollars?
June 10, 2008 at 5:43 pm #618804
AnonymousInactiveThanks Jan, NR, Charla, and beachdrivegirl
June 10, 2008 at 5:58 pm #618805
AnonymousInactiveTrick – I’m a little dense when it comes to these things, but wasn’t McCain’s education paid for because he served his country?
And, wouldn’t that be true of anyone joining the armed services? I thought they paid for college.
June 10, 2008 at 6:32 pm #618806
walfredoMemberNewRes- they would if Jim Webb’s bill that was voted for by Barack Obama and passed with overwhelming bipartisan support last month isn’t vetoed by our current president. McCain made the gutsy stand of not showing up to vote on the bill, but has publicly been an opponent of it.
The jist of the bill is to provide the same guarantees in the GI Bill as were provided in WWII. Which includes a full college education for anyone who finishes a full tour in our armed services. Currently, these type benefits are only earned by career military officers, not folks who serve one or two tours (the overwhelming majority of soldiers). McCain and McBush feel that offering these benefits to folks who only serve one or two tours will hurt re-enlistment and so they oppose supporting the troops.
June 10, 2008 at 6:35 pm #618807
beachdrivegirlParticipantMcCain has publicly denounced a current bill that would pay for Veterans full educational expenses.
June 10, 2008 at 6:46 pm #618808
AnonymousInactivewalfredo – Obviously there has to be some restrictions regarding who would receive benefits, otherwise it would, unfortunately, get abused.
June 10, 2008 at 7:25 pm #618809
AnonymousInactiveWhy do republicans hate our military.
June 10, 2008 at 7:29 pm #618810
Tonya42MemberYou mean aside from the typical $30 billion of pork added to it??? … which, by the way, is OUR MONEY (taxpayers) it encourages military personnel to leave.
It also rewards people who’ve served for 3 years the same as people who’ve served for 6 years or more … is that fair?!?
McCain supports a different version of the GI bill, one that includes a sliding scale; in other words, benefits increase with length of service.
Webb introduced this bill so that Obama could look pro-military and they added the pork so that 75% of the Senate would vote for it.
It’s politics, as usual, and Obama has shown his true colors : an extreme tax and spend liberal. Which I wish he would just come out and admit, I could respect him more if he did.
Considering the differences in the two bills, any retired military guy would naturally like the alternative better, since it contains incrementally greater benefits for those with longer service
June 10, 2008 at 7:32 pm #618811
Tonya42MemberI should also point out that McCain is rejecting it with support from commanding officers of the military.
The other big difference is that McCain wants the scholarships to be transferable to family members.
And he wants soldiers who re-enlist to get more benefits!
June 10, 2008 at 7:56 pm #618812
walfredoMemberTonya- it is extremely inconsistent to say you support the troops, but then to be against benefits that used to always be standard for members of the armed services.
It doesn’t seem out of line at all to me that someone who serves a full tour of duty in the military during a time of war would get a free college education. It worked after WWII and it would work now. Forcing those who join to jump through additional hoops, and become lifelong members of the military has never been the purpose of the GI Bill, and many, many, many generals have flat out said it will have minimal impact on retention, and will help recruiting…
If you are okay with stop losses, and pre-emptive wars, and occupying countries after we remove there leaders, and keeping our troops in harms way for an extended period of time- it is flat-out cowardly not to also be in favor of offering the same basic opportunities for veterans of our military that we have for over a century…
It is why this vote passed 75-22 in the senate, including support from over half of the republicans in Senate. This despite public opposition of the bill by Bushie and McSame. McSame hedged a little, but not actually showing up to cast a vote of no. One of 3 senators to bypass voting on the bill- the other two Ted Kennedy and Robert Byrd where in the hospital.
June 10, 2008 at 8:07 pm #618813
Tonya42MemberWalfredo –
“Tonya- it is extremely inconsistent to say you support the troops, but then to be against benefits that used to always be standard for members of the armed services.”
Your key words being “benefits that used to”…
The world has changed the economy has changed, everything has changed, why shouldn’
t the benefits out heros get keep up with the times?
You must not have read my post b/c it clearly outlines rationale for why McCain is doing what he is doing.
The question I would present to you is why would you want saddle our troops with outdated benefits that no longer meet the needs of the 21 century soldier and their perspective families?
June 10, 2008 at 8:10 pm #618814
Tonya42MemberWalfredo – Do you know how much of that 30 billion the soldiers will actually see?
No you don’t. Why? Because of the pork that our greedy and shiftless governement has loaded it up with.
If you care about our soldiers like you say you do then you owe them and everyone you profess it to to educate yourself with facts.
I know that may sound harsh but it is what I believe and it seems to me you would want to be armed with the truth as much as the next person.
June 10, 2008 at 8:17 pm #618815
walfredoMemberTonya- You called “politics as usual” a bill that reached across the aisle to get over half of the opposition parties support. A bill that provides benefits to troops serving during a time of war. You are defending someone who didn’t even bother to show up, let alone put together a coalition to get such a bill passed.
Think that through for a second, over half of your parties senators, sided w/ Jim Webb, Barack Obama, and Hillary Clinton during an election on a bill in direct and public opposition by the sitting President of the United States and the parties fall nominee for President.
Stuck, stubborn, and wrong has been the legacy of the Bush adminstration, and sadly McCain does nothing to inspire any hope of that changing…
Outdated benefits? So, the new bill, with overwhelming bi-partisan support is outdated?
Got it… Reaching across the aisle to form a braod coalition of support, including the opposition party in the bill, getting over 75% support, and providing benefits to soldiers during wartime is outdated politics. What Bush has done and McCain would continue to do is good…
June 10, 2008 at 8:34 pm #618816
beachdrivegirlParticipantAlthough 30 billion sounds like alot to you and I it is actually only abuot 5% of the current annual military budget. ($600 billion) And last time I checked a college education is needed more than ever in this dang age. The argument(s) of retention and money are just silly arguments. First of all, since 2004, although spendiing $4 billion a yr, we are lowering our standards. The average age of a recruit is up from 35 to 42, 12% of new recruits are having their criminal records waived and only 79% of recruits have a high school diploma. With the cost of education rising do you honeslty believe that a free education would not attrack more recruits for our military??? Personally when looking @ those statistics, i think we can spend that 5% of the budget to do what these Veterans deserve.
June 10, 2008 at 8:43 pm #618817
Tonya42MemberTonya- “You called “politics as usual” a bill that reached across the aisle to get over half of the opposition parties support. A bill that provides benefits to troops serving during a time of war. You are defending someone who didn’t even bother to show up, let alone put together a coalition to get such a bill passed.”
You are missing my point and my post I thought was crystal clear. Perhaps we should just agree to disagree.
Beachdrivegrl – I would love it if we voted to provide 30 billion to our veterans resources but that is not the case. It never was from the get go. It is loaded with all kinds of pork. It had to be in order for congress to pass it.
June 10, 2008 at 8:50 pm #618818
beachdrivegirlParticipantAnd thsi $30billion dollars isnt being paid for by everyday Americans. It is going to be paid for by individuals making more than $500K a yr and married couples making more than $1 million a yr. I am prettty sure they can afford the little bit of extra tax that is going to pay for the tuition and other college related expenses of Veterans. Which in the long run will help our country. Can you please list the examples of this pork???
June 10, 2008 at 9:07 pm #618819
AnonymousInactiveI’m coming up with different info than you guys are. The story carried by the military news *stars and stripes* list the 2 bills as being 38 billion and 52 billion respectively. 14 Billion apart. Then if you head over to *the military times* it has a story saying Webbs senate bill is the preferred bill and that the smaller appearing bill is misleading. Supposedly the 38 billion bill leaves out the figures for the reserves.
*The House Veterans’ Affairs Committee chairman has taken the unusual position of favoring a Senate bill that would improve GI Bill education benefits over a bill prepared by members of his own committee*
*He also faulted HR 5684 for omitting increases in reserve education benefits that are part of the Senate bill. Reserve programs were left out because the Armed Services Committee, not the Veterans’ Affairs Committee, has jurisdiction over the reserve benefits plan*
So am I missing something?
June 10, 2008 at 10:05 pm #618820
Tonya42MemberWell Webb’s bill is terrible and even opposed by the Pentagon. Webb’s bill hurts retention, it doesn’t award benefits based on length of service, and it has no survivor’s benefit provisions. It’s a lousy bill. The fact that it is supported is a mystery to me.
Beachdrivegirl – You asked about some of the pork in the bill I mentioned, well let’s see, fuel subsidies, money to fight wild fires oh and more than a few billion for some arcane military operations support overseas..
This is not helping our vets.
I think the Huffington Post, clearly a left leaning site has more details on there for you to review.
June 10, 2008 at 11:19 pm #618821
JanSParticipantI’m curious as to how many people on here posting about this are actual vets. I served in the armed forces…I was not a career person. Many don’t want to be career military people, but feel that they should at least give some of their life and time to serving. Why shouldn’t they be rewarded too? What’s wrong with that? I serve my country, but sorry, go away, we’re not gonna give anything back to you? Where’s the incentive in that?
Again…hands up…how many on here posting have served? And if you have, did you plan on being career military? and if not, why not? I’m really curious. Also, would you encourage your children to serve in the military…to give 3-4 years of their lives in service, to postpone their education, and still have to pay out of pocket when they get out?
Tonya…could you be a bit more specific about the “arcane military ops overseas?….exactly what are they?
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