Legal for bikes?

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  • #940040

    CarDriver
    Participant

    Going down Admiral way-on the city side this morning i saw 2 bikes headed down in the right lane. Instead of going right to get to Avalon they moved over and went around the curve and rode in the lane until going under Spokane st. Is that legal? The sign on Admiral say’s bikes should exit and go to Avalon. The other question is that on many occasions i’ve been sitting at a light-in traffic and have had bike riders go between me and the parked car’s,or split the lane and to the the head of the line at a light. Is that legal.

    #940054

    TSurly
    Participant

    For your first question, yes, look at the Bicycle Master Plan.

    For you second question, yes:

    “The driver of a vehicle May overtake and pass another vehicle upon the right only under conditions permitting such movement in safety. Such movement shall not be made by driving off the roadway”.

    https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.115

    #940111

    Yes2Seattle
    Participant

    Oftentimes on 1st Ave through Pioneer Square, cyclists will casually ride along the right side of cars who’ve just passed them only to have these same cars have to carefully negotiate the line of cars to their left. With the time and caution put into not wanting to hit cars on the left nor cyclists to the right, almost inevitably the next traffic light is caught.

    It always strikes me as rude and unnecessary for the cyclists to do that.

    #940115

    TSurly
    Participant

    Think it rude and unnecessary all you want, but we are legally allowed to do it, and it makes my commute faster and more efficient than yours.

    #940118

    Yes2Seattle
    Participant

    Not if we’re sitting at the same traffic lights.

    Not sure I’m glad to have posted. While remaining patient & courteous in traffic, I could imagine to myself that were the bikers aware they would possibly employ a bit of courtesy themselves. Now, I can no longer entertain that viewpoint.

    #940120

    TSurly
    Participant

    Courtesy is a two way street. I’ll consider not LEAGALY passing you on the right when I go a single day where I do not observe a driver texting, putting on making, reading or other wise driving distracted.

    #940122

    mark47n
    Participant

    So, OP, it’s your position that cyclists must be stuck in traffic in exactly the same way that you are, despite that the law allows otherwise, out of courtesy?

    Perhaps you should ask if what informs your frustration is that you’re sitting while cyclists are passing you?

    Most cyclists employ courtesy. They don’t swerve at cars, throw things at cars, cut cars off, honk at cars, etc. All of these have happened to me on a bike. Since cyclists aren’t shrouded in 1.5 tons of steel, plastic and safety systems they are obligated to employ courtesy for the very sake of their lives, unlike drivers of cars whose carelessness is shocking.

    #940124

    Yes2Seattle
    Participant

    I’m not the OP but would like to respond to this..

    Zero frustration about someone being in front. Surprised would be the better word at the (well, what I had hoped was lack of awareness) that cyclists are creating additional passings and lane changes only to have the cars catching light after light when none of this would be the case were they to employ awareness / courtesy knowing they’re going to end up at the next light regardless. For the cars, most would naturally catch green if not for practicing courtesy and safety in the additional lane changes.

    Re; the honking, dodging etc.. I’m sorry that’s happening. It shouldn’t be.

    #940265

    mark47n
    Participant

    Again, your form of courtesy would result in cyclists negating one of the advantages in cycle commuting by “courteously” stopping wherever they are when the light turns red so that car drivers don’t feel bad.

    Cars don’t make additional lane changes for bicycles, at least not in my experience. They zip on by while cyclists maintain fierce concentration to hold their line. Cars are not employing the “courtesy” that you are suggesting. This is yet another thread that says that cyclists are the ones that are breaking the rules or being rude when they are simply enforcing their rights. That you don’t know what their legal rights are on the road you may want to read up on them. Most cyclists are quite aware of their rights and are forced to surrender them in the face of an angry driver who threatens life and limb.

    If you are one of the rare drivers that is aware of the three foot rule and endeavor to adhere to it then all I can say is thank you!

    #940274

    lunaballz
    Participant

    I also want to say that cyclists move to the front of the line out of safety. As a cyclist, I used to feel bad getting around the cars that had just passed me but it’s way harder for oncoming traffic to see me when I’m mixed in with the cars rather than at the front of the line. Especially with turning traffic, I’ve had a lot of close calls where they thought they were clear to turn because it was hard to see me behind the cars

    #940279

    Ponderosa
    Participant

    Even if cyclists aren’t beating cars to their destinations, passing stopped cars legally to get to the front of the stop helps improve visibility for cyclists–maybe reminding drivers to check their right side before making a right turn, changing lanes, or pulling into a slip lane at an intersection. This also allows other at the intersection to better see cyclists as well. We want to get out alive, and I’ve been nearly clipped by right-turning drivers who don’t check their right side before making their move. I’ll also avoid the door zone of parked cars as much as possible, and being at the start of an intersection also helps avoid door zones.
    And again, thanks to anyone who gives cyclists 3 feet and checks considers bike traffic on the right!

    #940290

    Yes2Seattle
    Participant

    Thanks for chiming in re visibility; makes total sense now. :-)

    #940302

    Don_Brubeck
    Participant

    The concern about “cyclists .. creating additional passings and lane changes only to have the cars catching” up, applies equally in reverse, too. So often when riding a bike on residential streets or congested arterials, I find car drivers seem compelled to pass me, even though I am going at a speed that will get both of us to the next stop sign or light or line of backed-up cars at the same time. Why not just back off for a second or two, instead of making dangerously close passes to a bike rider, or dangerous passes to other vehicle drivers in the oncoming lane of traffic? Bikes often travel more efficiently than cars, not slower, through congested streets. That’s one good reason to use a bike. Bike riders are not really making car trips take longer. In fact, when there is space to ride in a bike lane or alongside traffic, each bike is one less car in the vehicle backup at intersections and bridge ramps. I try to appreciate that when driving my car.

    #940303

    dunnkld
    Participant

    People biking have the same rights and responsibilities as people driving a motorized vehicle in the general traffic lanes. In addition, in Seattle, they have the same rights as pedestrians on sidewalks, crosswalks, and all-way crossings IF they proceed carefully and do not endanger other people. If there is room between parked cars and moving cars, cyclists should pull up to the stop line to be visible when starting up. If there is room for a right turn lane, people who intend to go straight ahead, whether biking or driving, should move to the left to allow room for people to turn right after stopping. People driving should not attempt to cede their right of way to people biking or walking. This can cause a dangerous situation since other motorists in the area do not have to cede their right of way and may not do so. People driving and people biking should obey all stop signs and signals, speed limits, right turn on red restrictions, etc.

    #940433

    CarDriver
    Participant

    dunnkid-WELL SAID! EVERYONE should be held accountable and called out when they do the wrong thing. One note from last night. I was driving north on 12th ave. when the car in front of me put on their turn signal(!)indicating they were going to take an open spot of street parking. I stopped. Here comes a bike-not paying attention passing me on the right. He had to brake hard because the car was backing into the spot. His reaction? He SCREAMED obscenities at the driver for almost hitting HIM!! How’s that supposed to improve relation’s??

    #940464

    Ponderosa
    Participant

    From WADOL on cars turning in their testing literature: “The law requires the motorist to yield to the cyclist going straight if there is any chance of collision.”
    Simply turning on a blinker is not a right-of-way or permission to move if is not safe to do so.
    If someone ever threatens your life, intentional or not, I hope you let them know. Screaming is just one example of an adrenaline-filled response, I’m sure most people have experienced either driving, biking, walking. All users of the roadway need to understand the law, and drivers of autos are the most likely to kill others, which is why some cyclists will yield their right-of-way in scenarios like this.
    Besides the driver who failed to check their surroundings before negotiating their parking maneuver, did you notice any other issues with drivers last night–speeding, box blocking, red-light running, failure to yield? Or were you just focused on cyclists?

    #940477

    Yes2Seattle
    Participant

    . []
    \
    X []
    !

    Hmm… \= car trying to park
    X= CarDriver (the poster)
    []= parked cars
    != bicyclist

    Not sure this would be the best time to attempt passing a car on the right. Where would the cyclist even go until the car had completed his maneuver?

    Unless I’m picturing this incorrectly which I guess is possible.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by Yes2Seattle.
    • This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by Yes2Seattle.
    #940531

    CarDriver
    Participant

    Ponderosa. As someone who was taught to pay attention-I actually do. Traffic was such that nobody was speeding. Didn’t see anybody run a red light. I do pay attention to my surrounding’s-cycleists and pedestrians and car’s. Yes-car drivers do bad things on the road. They should be called out for it and ticketed if seen by law enforcement. In the spirit of full disclosure I also see bikes run red light’s/stop signs, swerve in front of car’s. not pay attention. I’ve seen plenty of ped’s that ignore do not walk signals and not look up from their phones, jaywalk etc. In case you’re wondering..in 47 years of driving-been in 2 minor fender bender’s-neither my fault-other driver’s ticketed. 3 traffic ticket’s-last on being in 2002.

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