Double-Dip Recession Coming?

[JoB]

Carson,

this is no time to be philosophical..

as though this was some sporting event.

Our country is in deep financial crisis right now because of the predatory business practices promoted by the right for the last decade.

As they keep pointing out.. this recession has not ended. Unemployment is not only at an all time high but the length of time qualified individuals actively seeking employment remain unemployed is unprecedented.

And you think this election is no big deal?

The right has used the power of filibuster to severely limit and even block legislation that would have eased the burden of this recession for the average American.

They believe in bailouts for big business but not in programs to stimulate the growth of small businesses or programs to extend unemployment for those who can not find work…. and this is when they are in the minority.

What do you think they will do if they regain the majority?

If we stand by idly and give those clowns back the keys to the national cookie jar…

we won’t be crying in our beer..

we won’t have any beer to cry in.

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[Carson]

JoB,

As you know, things are never as good as they seem, and they are never as bad as they seem. We all lived, and survived thru 8 years of the Court Appointed President. We watched the Green Party do in Gore, lets just hope, and help, the Tea Baggers do the same!

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[JoB]

Carson..

We didn’t survive thru 8 years of the court appointed president…

8 years of Bush Jr and his administration is why we are in deep trouble now.

the tea party isn’t going to undermine a republican presidential candidate in the next election because in spite of the rhetoric they are funded by the same people funding the republicans… this separate tea party or freedom party stuff is a political myth…

waiting for that realization isn’t going to help the economy recover or restore civil rights or …

if democrats don’t think this election is important enough to turn out in record numbers …

they should ask themselves what might have been different if Bush had been defeated… as he would have been if more democrats had just showed up at the ballot box.

Do you really think things aren’t so bad?

How bad do they have to get before you think they are THAT bad?

Because they already got there for the voters who lost their jobs.. or their homes.. or their retirement.. or took that 20% hit on their home’s equity.. or ….

And they are the lucky ones. They had something to lose. I am guessing you and i still do.

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[Carson]

Of course we survived, we are both here to tell about it. Are you ready to caucus with me in 2012 and have some fun?

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[JoB]

Carson..

how many were killed in Iraq?

the war in iraq was a direct result of George W Bush’s presidency.

they didn’t survive.

our campaign finance laws didn’t survive..

the supreme court Bush loaded killed them in a single ruling..

do you want me to go on?

I will no doubt caucus in 2012.

but first i am going to do what i can to get out the vote in 2010.

because it really does still matter

especially here in Washington where democrats only carry a slim majority.

if we don’t show up in large numbers

our majority won’t be enough to carry the state

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[Carson]

Excellent. We have a date. Spring 2012. Republican caucuses. We will work together to help the republicans nominate the least electable white guy possible since Obama will be unchallenged.

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[JoB]

Carson..

LOL

i suspect i would be shot on sight at a republican caucus…

i could be wrong

but somehow i don’t think so

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[Carson]

You made a pinky promise, we are going!!!

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[JoB]

Carson…

i promised to caucus..

but i didn’t promise to caucus with republicans…

even i wouldn’t be that rash ;->

as it turns out there were plenty of fireworks at the caucus for democrats this last time. I backed the lady and that wasn’t a popular choice here.

so you see it’s not that i am not willing to fight for a lost cause…

but taking on a room full of republicans could be hazardous to my health …

i should have known you had an ulterior motive ;-)

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[HMC Rich]

Ummm. You wouldn’t be popular at a Republican caucus but you would not be killed, hurt, or maimed.

Glenn Becks shows about the founders dealt directly with the issue of slavery and how the founders treated their slaves. In fact most of the founding fathers wanted to abolish slavery and tried to pass legislation to end it twenty years after ratification.

Also did you know that the first slave owner in America was formerly an indentured servant who gained his “freedom” then had indentured servants. Unfortunately the indentured servant lost a court battle and became the property of that man. That land owner who won and had formerly been an indentured servant was black.

At about the same time a White landowner had three servants run off. He caught them and took them to court. Two were white and one was black. The two white people had to spend five more years as indentured servants. The black man had his freedom taken away. It was government who interfered with these men’s rights and slowly brought about slavery.

Slavery could not be abolished in the US until January 1 1808 because there were three slave states at the constituttional convention in 1787. 1789 they abolished slavery in any new territory. 1794 they banned the exportation of slaves. 1808 they banned the importation of slaves. Unfortunately in 1820 they repealed the anti slavery law and put in the Missouri compromise. It became worse after that.

First guy shot in the American Revolution was black. Crispus Attucks. In Philadelphia read about Richard Allen and Absolon Jones and the yellow fever outbreak.

Ben Franklin. Head of the Abolitionist Society. Not a racist.

Pick up “American History in Black and White” by David Barton. Before making brash and untrue statements about all

of our founders being rich racist white men, maybe bone up

on non revisionist non progressive history.

Your basis of “fact” is flawed. With Obama copying FDR in many ways, we are not going to get out of this recession soon. The house has been Democrat for almost four years. Sorry JoB. As much as you try to blame Bush for everything your argument falls flat.

Once Woodrow Wilson was out of office, Harding turned the country around in 18 months. He and the congress reversed quite a few of the Progressive legislation and made the twenties a successful time. Calvin Coolidge carried on a lot of that success. Unfortunately Herbert Hoover made bad Choices and policy and the seeds of the depression were sewn. FDR and his policies extended the depression.

The last stimulus promised shovel ready projects. That didn’t spur the economy. Instead some of it was used on research in Russia and non domestic studies and projects. There is still about 50 billion left from that. Why not use that?

If Obama had come out early in his term and had pushed infrastructure building and funding I am certain I would have supported some of it. This new one and middle class tax cut extensions sounds like a panic move to me.

So I will re-iterate. If Bush and the Republicans did cause all the woes of the country then you are damning a large and out of control Federal government. Why then would you support even more growth and deficit spending from the current Democratically controlled congress and Presidency? Why are you supporting the War in Afghanistan where we are not doing so well. Maybe we shouldn’t have gone to Iraq but we did. We deposed a despot and helped an country become a fledgling Democracy. Those brave soldiers did not die in vain. We achieved the objective.

Seems to me you should be advocating a Libertarian hybrid government. (rich winks).

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[Carson]

Rich,

History has been very kind to the Founding Fathers and thats being very very nice. When you have a little time, find a few history books about America NOT written by Americans for use by grade school kids. You would be shocked at how different they are. Slaves, rape, etc are just a few issues that have been whitewashed out. Howard Zinn is a great place to start and easy enough to find. (and one of my favorite professors in college)

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[JoB]

HMCRich…

you and i have different ideas about out of control government…

perhaps i am naive.. but it thought government was in the business of providing services for it’s citizens….

the truth is that in my lifetime Republicans have grown government and cut services to it’s citizens while increasing subsidies to business.

democrats have shrunk government and increased services to it’s citizens… while still providing subsidies to business.

All rhetoric aside… as a citizen.. i’m thinking the second choice is in my best interests…

and yes… Carson is right.. you need to get out more intellectually.

Read Howard Zinn…

the history that apparently hasn’t been fit to print until now…

and then try to prove him wrong.

very eye opening.

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[Carson]

JoB,

I confess, I only took the Zinn classes because he gave everyone either a B+ or an A. But he did have great classes. I remember discussing what the difference was between Hitler and Nazi Germany vs the US Government and our extermination of Native Americans. Basically, we were able to write the history of both and wrote the Native American extermination off as little more than an “indian problem”….

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[JoB]

HMCRich…

just for you know and giggles…

if it is true…

why would it matter that the first slave owner in America was black?

Black men certainly didn’t institutionalize slavery in the United States…

and if they think whites are a subhuman race they have been too polite to say so or to use us as medical guinea pigs.

tho i did hear an Inuit comment on a BBC travel program that he thought the first white man he saw was the ugliest man he had ever seen…

and he is a man of some color :)

The very fact that you gleaned such useless trivia as

“the first slave owner in the Untied States was black”

from the twisted history coming from Beck highlights the importance of color to his story:(

when the color of someone’s skin is the most important information about them.. that’s racism.

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[Jiggers]

Since this thread started, the economy’s got worse…lol

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[Carson]

Jiggers, where are you getting your news from? Faux News? I only seem to see sunshine and rainbows!

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[JoB]

jiggers…

you are goign to hear how bad the economy is every day until the election in November.

it’s an election cycle.

history would predict that the more you hear how bad the economy is from republicans and their mouthpieces the more likely you are to vote out the incumbents and vote in republicans.

expect the doom to darken exponentially in the next month.

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[Jiggers]

I’d like to know how the Republicans are going to fix their own mess up if given control of the presidency again. Now that should be interesting.

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[JoB]

they aren’t.

they don’t have to actually fix it themselves..

the worst of the hemoraging has already stopped

and they will get an infusion from big business the minute they have control of congress.

According to an NPR program i listened to today.. American Businesses are sitting on 6 grand cash for every man, woman and child in the United States. The minute they start investing some of that cash in inventory the recovery gets a huge boost.

why would they sit on cash they could invest now?

Because if they can buy a republican majority in this election they can say goodbye to those pesky environmental rules and hello to more corporate subsidies…

In the meantime.. the more America struggles the better the election results for them.

good gig.. huh.

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[Jiggers]

Something more to chew on..Comon Obama. You had me believing in you. I voted for you because I took the bait. Boy do I feel stupid! Thank god I bought a good 4 season tent from REI. It set me back $500. I’ll need it when the snow comes falling.

article,

http://www.aolnews.com/politics/article/at-news-conference-obama-challenges-gop-on-economy-tax-cuts/19628642

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[JoB]

did you think the man was a miracle worker?

because that’s what it would have taken..

this isn’t a dip in the economy

or just another recession…

we have never been in the financial situation we found ourselves in at the end of the Bush presidency…

no-one really knows how to get us completely out.

the blue dogs and GOP are doing their best to kill any relief programs..

so…

just what did you expect?

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[HMC Rich]

Useless Trivia. No. History. It shows that people and governments can make a small decision that can start a trend. Government is needed to keep the free market relatively fair. But when governments make bad decisions, we are all hurt.

You can also blame Tobacco for this too. Since owners wanted to stop training new indentured servants they found a way to enslave people.

Racism, I look more at individuals and “their content of character” more so than just the color of their skin. Fortunately when I was young a black person straightened me out quickly on stereotypes. You may call me racist but I am not the one forcibly grouping people together. Everyone is unique. Certain cultures have unique features. Some good, some bad. Have I ever been prejudiced against a person, Yes. Have I received prejudice from people? A few times but nothing that compares to what others have gone through. Empower people, and fans of the Green Bay Packers. Wait, I do have some hate in me. For the Vikings and Bears.

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[JoB]

HMCRich…

arcane historical references without context don’t really teach much Rich…

taken out of context.. they are little more than trivia.

Our own recent past ..

and lets define that as that which has happened in my lifetime ;-> …

may even be outdated info in today’s economic climate

Think about it…

if the conservative political easyspeak really worked

we wouldn’t be in the mess we are in now.

this mess is the end result of

“getting government’s fingers off business”

except of course.. where government can enrich business :(

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome….

Next time you watch your buddy Glen..

turn off the sound and see if you don’t get a different perspective on his endless rants…

if nothing else.. you will learn more ;->

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[happy hour]

My neighbor. Was watching world news the other night and they declared that the recession was over!!! Wow, I told her she must have been watching comedy central!! But, no!

Also, toxic poisoning in our country is epidemic. I will post web that addresses these issues. I have toxic poisoning in my body and was tested(out of pocket) to try to find out what was wrong with me. No cure! China exports more than just lead. This should be posted in politics. (

Oops)

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[kootchman]

Ahhh the doctrinaire….. I voted for Dubya…and don’t I feel the fool for it! Never have yet defended his presidency.

Now… one Democrat… post and say I voted for Obama, and don’t I feel the fool for it?

As to influence and spending and being “swamped” by corporate Republican spending…

Fed Elec Commission (FEC web site) 2008 of 2.84 billion, all parties and primaries

Total Spent – Obama 730 Million

McCain 333 Million

After two years of some reality checking and getting to sorta test drive that Democratic vehicle….

Total Spent 2010 Mid terms

Dems 1.286 billion

Repub 1.340 billion

WHAT? where is that corporate tsunami ? 2010 Republicans had a modest gain over the Democrats who CRUSHED the Republicans in 2008….sorta kinda a sheepish admission that Bush wasn;t the water carrier Republicans would open their purses for. Looks like Dems win the title for “Best Party up For Sale”…

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