Home › Forums › Open Discussion › Bicycles with flashing head lamps
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December 3, 2013 at 4:18 pm #800625
VBDParticipantSo it appears that most people like the strobes. So that brings up some follow up questions:
Should they be made legal? (I think the consensus is “yes”.)
Since the technology for these lights has come a long way in the last few years, it’s not inconceivable that they could get brighter in the years to come. Should a limit be established as to how bright they may be?
And my personal issue was that a lone flashing light makes it difficult to interpret speed and direction. So wouldn’t it be a good idea if the flashing light was accompanied by a steady light?
December 3, 2013 at 8:20 pm #800626
AlParticipant1) Sure, make ’em “legal” – but what would this accomplish?
2) Sure, there may be a limit – but brightness needs also depend on how dark a route is. And many lights that use flash also have that steady beam, which may be very necessary. How will this be regulated?
3) Sure, sounds like many of us who cycle use both flash/steady. But what’s your point? It’s a learning experience and personal choice. It’s ultimately up to the cyclist to be as visible as they want to be and for the driver to make sure the approaching vehicle is clear before making any move. Heck, I’ve not been able to pull out of intersections while on my bike due to DRIVER’s lack of lights or signals, or erratic behavior, how would you propose patrolling cyclists specifically?
Here’s an interesting article about cyclist visibility and where the onus likely lies: http://road.cc/content/news/99660-high-vis-clothing-doesnt-make-cars-pass-you-more-safely-says-new-study
December 3, 2013 at 8:28 pm #800627
F16CrewChiefMemberI am with VBD here.
A pulsing light is hard to gauge sometimes. With more defined bike lanes, such as the ones on Avalon, making right turns onto streets like Genesee can be scary. As a driver, I do not use the bike lane to make that right. Naturally I check the bike lane before making my right. However, coming north on Avalon and making the right onto Genesee at night can be very confusing. Checking my mirrors, I got a line up of cars bending around Avalon behind me and I spot this little flashy light I can’t truly tell is moving closer to me or not. So I try and focus on this light, while stopped at a green light with my right blinker on. Now I got cars behind me honking cause I’m sitting there trying to figure out if I’m about to take out a cyclist by making this right turn.
Now, I truly believe if the cyclist lights are solid, it would be easier to determine from a vehicle if this is a cyclist.
December 4, 2013 at 3:45 am #800628
VBDParticipantAl,
I think what making flashing lights legal would accomplish is pretty obvious. All it takes is a few complaints, and the citations could begin. (particularly if those complaints happen in affluent neighborhoods or near the Mayor’s house…) Making it legal would eliminate the risk or getting a ticket.
Brightness is already defined in the state regulations. All that would need to be done is applying it to bikes, But I agree, it’d be much tougher to enforce.
As for the steady lamp with the flashing, simply mandate that a steady light must be on the bike (like it is already required for all other vehicles) after dark. The flashing light would be in addition to the steady light if desired, but not required.
Why would anybody be in favor of bad driving and misuse of lights by cars?? Just because there are plenty of bad drivers who do not use signals and headlights properly does not mean that gives any other vehicles an excuse to do the same.
If a car is driving around at night with no lights (or a single flashing light) I would want it pulled over and cited.
December 4, 2013 at 7:55 pm #800629
AlParticipantI agree with your take on making it legal on the books – I’d sign a petition for it. Very specific information regarding minimum/maximum brightness would have to be covered too.
Have you checked the lights available in the bike shops/online? Motor vehicle lights have to be at a certain level correct (sorry, no car here so I don’t know)? How would the sale of lights be checked…I wouldn’t want a new rider to buy a light then get a ticket because it’s not the correct brightness level. Interesting, the RCW of WA states that the State Patrol has authority over headlamp regulation/sales…RCW 46.37.320.
I agree with the steady/flashing idea since I’ve personally found that combo the best, especially at dawn/twilight.
Since I’ve seen lots of posts in general about too bright flashing lights on trails, maybe cycling is becoming more popular – a good thing. And with experience comes changing how one negotiates their ride/route. Learning that a flash isn’t always helpful (I agree with you here to a point…) and when to use it and when not to is also an educational change – this is where it’s sticky. How to go about both a legal and education change?
December 11, 2013 at 11:05 pm #800630
skeeterParticipantI just started biking at night. My first headlamp was 25 lumens. I learned quickly that’s more of just a “safety lamp” than a real headlight. Last night I picked up some 250 lumen high output LED flashlights at Costco. And I ordered a universal handle-bar mounting bracket for them. Is that going to work well for night-time riding?
December 12, 2013 at 5:40 am #800631
singularnameParticipantCount me as a pro-flashing light driver FWIW. They are annoying, and annoying things make me slow down and be more alert.
December 12, 2013 at 4:41 pm #800632
wundrgrrrlParticipantThis is the first year that I’ve committed to bike commuting year round, at least 2 times a week during the winter. I’m lit up like a christmas tree, including flashing lights, helmet lights, led spoke lights, etc.
Since this thread started, I’ve been paying extra attention to bike lights while I’m driving in my car. I am more confused by the steady lights than the blinky lights. The flashing lights really do make you think a little more about where it’s coming from. A steady light in my rear view or side view mirror can pretty easily be mistaken for a car headlamp further back than it really is. A flashing light is clearly a cyclist.
Through this thread, I have learned a few things though.
– When on a protected bike trail (Alki), switch to steady light.
– Aim the flashing light a little lower so as not to blind oncoming cyclists / pedestrians.
– Use a steady light in conjunction with the flash.
Regardless, as a cyclist, I will do everything necessary to be SEEN. Being struck would really suck. And as a driver, I can’t imagine much worse than being in an accident with a fellow cyclist.
December 12, 2013 at 5:33 pm #800633
velo_nutParticipantDecember 12, 2013 at 6:24 pm #800634
skeeterParticipant2000 lumens! That’s awesome velo_nut! That light is well out of my price range, but I have to think that prices will continue to fall.
December 13, 2013 at 5:37 pm #800635
metrognomeParticipantin fact, *some* people are disoriented by flashing lights, esp. if a) it is fully dark, b) the light is bright, and c) the light is aimed too high. Just because one person isn’t bothered by a flashing light doesn’t mean no one else is. Our brains are individual and don’t function the same way from person to person.
Speaking of which, bright flashing lights can trigger photosensitive epilepsy, even in person’s who have never experienced epilepsy before. Any legislation should address this issue.
http://www.epilepsyfoundation.org/aboutepilepsy/seizures/photosensitivity/index.cfm
December 13, 2013 at 6:30 pm #800636
mark47nParticipantThen why not ban all flashing lights? On police cars, fire trucks, stop lights, RR crossings…
Really?
I’m going to retain my flashing light on my bike. The very fact that people are pissing and moaning about it tells me that it’s working. People are seeing me. As to the whole distance thing, if you are having trouble with judging distances perhaps you should slow down and become the master of your vehicle and, while you’re at it, of yourself. If that’s too hard for drivers then perhaps they should turn in their licenses.
As to the brightness; you can’t tell me that the little light, even a bright one, can compete with some of the xenon powerhouses that are on cars nowadays, flashing or not.
December 13, 2013 at 6:54 pm #800637
metrognomeParticipantphotosensitive epilepsy is only triggered by a certain flash rate. Per the link I provided:
‘ Even in predisposed individuals, many factors must combine to trigger the photosensitive reaction.
Examples include:
•frequency of the flash (that is, how quickly the light is flashing)
•brightness
•contrast with background lighting
•distance between the viewer and the light source
•wavelength of the light
•whether a person’s eyes are open or closed
The frequency or speed of flashing light that is most likely to cause seizures varies from person to person. Generally, flashing lights most likely to trigger seizures are between the frequency of 5 to 30 flashes per second (Hertz).’
…
•the flash rate be kept to under 2 Hertz with breaks every so often between flashes…’
This isn’t rocket surgery.
December 15, 2013 at 9:07 pm #800638
CountingCoupMemberhttp://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008KXDO8Y/ref=oh_details_o08_s01_i04?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ~ 1200 lumens and the price is right…
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