Home › Forums › Open Discussion › Another Traffic Circle Question
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June 25, 2011 at 11:26 pm #599498
yamanbParticipantAgain, I’ve searched the WSDOT site and even these forums for an answer to my question of yielding to cars when you are already in a traffic circle.
It’s my understanding that if you are already INSIDE the traffic circle you have the right away and should NOT stop but continue until you can exit the loop.
I respect this and usually wait until it’s clear before entering. Today, a red Honda Element and black BMW made it clear that they were frustrated I made them stop by pulling up to the circle/yielding and thanked me with profanity and flipping me the bird. Thanks guys.
Just wanted to make sure I don’t inconvenience anyone on here in the future so I would like to know what the rules are, when you are already in the traffic circle, since I can’t find any definitive source online.
Thanks in advance.
June 26, 2011 at 2:35 am #727727
chrismaParticipantI’m assuming you’re talking about one of the neighborhood traffic calming circles, but it appears the law is the same as for full roundabouts.
If you’re already in the circle, drivers not in the circle are supposed to yield right of way to you.
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/safety/roundabouts/#single
Also page 41 of the Washington Driver’s Guide says:
Drivers entering a roundabout must yield to drivers already in the circle.
<sarcasm>
BTW, I’m simply shocked to hear of a BMW driver behaving this way.
</sarcasm>
June 26, 2011 at 2:43 am #727728
chrismaParticipantCity of Seattle explains how yielding the right of way at an intersection works, including one controlled by a traffic circle.
June 26, 2011 at 4:16 am #727729
me on 28th Ave SWParticipantAny chance you were “cutting left” instead of going around the long way if you were making a left turn? In that case I could see the other cars possibly being miffed. If not, and you were already in the intersection, sounds like they were being good old-fashioned jerks.
June 26, 2011 at 3:57 pm #727730
happy hourParticipantChrisma. Funny re; BMW!!!! :)
I thought those circles meant free for all
Like bumper cars! Oops. :)
Only kddng
June 26, 2011 at 10:42 pm #727731
WorldCitizenParticipantCheck out This little quiz by The Seattle Times… particularly #2
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/multimedia/news/living/crazydrivers/
June 27, 2011 at 3:43 pm #727732
KBearParticipantThe Seattle Times quiz has some errors. The car on the right does not “always” have the right of way, although it is the correct answer in their example. That rule only applies when 2 cars arrive at the intersection at the same time. Otherwise, the first car to arrive at the intersection has the right of way. And we’ve already established that turning left in front of a traffic circle is illegal.
June 27, 2011 at 5:55 pm #727733
CMParticipantEverybody needs to understand that there is a distinct difference between a “roundabout” and a “traffic calming device”, which unfortunately are both randomly called “traffic circles”. State law is quite clear about right of way in a roundabout, but if you’re talking about the small planted circle in the middle of an otherwise normal 4-way, then turning left in front of it is not illegal.
From the Seattle website linked above: “Turning left in front of a traffic circle in those instances can be safely performed if the driver exercises reasonable care and yields to pedestrians, bicyclists, and oncoming traffic.”
June 27, 2011 at 6:10 pm #727734
KBearParticipantThe Seattle Times is incorrect. Seattle’s roundabouts are considered traffic circles under state law. Follow the links in posts 2 and 3.
June 27, 2011 at 6:57 pm #727735
CMPParticipantI’m with CM on this one. True traffic circles (a/k/a Roundabouts) will be designated as such with a sign and advisory speed limits. Seattle would be much better off removing the traffic calming planter boxes and installing stop or yield signs instead. They state that’s not always the safest option but at least it’s more clear!
June 27, 2011 at 7:12 pm #727736
KBearParticipantThey may be poorly signed, but SDOT says they are traffic circles.
June 27, 2011 at 7:25 pm #727737
CMParticipantKBear, my quote was taken from the City of Seattle webpage in post #3. The City maintains that state law defines them all as traffic roundabouts, but that the city understands it may not always be practical to always go around, so allows turning left in front of them if safe.
June 27, 2011 at 7:32 pm #727738
chrismaParticipantCM is correct. Here’s the full quote from the link in my post #3:
How do I turn left at a traffic circle?
State Law does not distinguish between a traffic circle and a larger roundabout. Consequently, a driver turning left at a neighborhood traffic circle must proceed counterclockwise around the traffic circle. However, we recognize that there are instances when drivers may need to turn left before a traffic circle, such as when cars park too closely to the right side of a circle or when a driver can’t maneuver a larger vehicle around to the right. Turning left in front of a traffic circle in those instances can be safely performed if the driver exercises reasonable care and yields to pedestrians, bicyclists, and oncoming traffic.
**bold text is from the source.
June 27, 2011 at 7:34 pm #727739
KBearParticipantThe city allows turning left in front of traffic circles if safe AND NECESSARY. That doesn’t mean you can do it just because there’s no traffic and you’re too lazy to drive around. You also can’t do it when there are other cars approaching the intersection. You can only do it when it is impossible to drive around the circle.
June 27, 2011 at 9:35 pm #727740
dawsonctParticipantEVERY Seattle cop I have asked stated that if traffic allows, turning left in front of the circle is legit and they won’t ticket someone who does it in a safe manner.
Even if they are simply being too “lazy” to drive around it.
Round-abouts, oth, are circular one-way streets. It WOULD be nice if the people in THOSE things would use their signals when they plan to exit it, so the drivers waiting to enter can know when they safely can do so. Bend has a bunch of them, which is really fairly nice, but the Oregon High Desert is populated with the “individualist” type, who don’t think YOU have the right to know what their next move will be.
FREEDOM!!
I can’t think of any REAL traffic circles in Seattle.
***
Anyhooo, I’m going to keep turning L. in front, but I’ll keep an eye out for y’all, and won’t make you wait while I perform my completely legitimate “illegal” maneuver.
June 27, 2011 at 9:44 pm #727741
WorldCitizenParticipantYeah, I posted that because when I first moved to Seattle about four years ago, a version of it was featured on the website. I “incorrectly” answered and was shocked when you could, according to The Seattle Times, cut in front. I’ve been doing it ever since and every time it feels totally wrong. Gotten the finger many times. I love to show this to people who feel it’s wrong as well…pisses them off royally. Yet, according to every police officer I spoken with about the matter, everyone of them says “yeah, do it as long as there’s no one else approaching the intersection”. Looks like according to the city’s own website these officers are all wrong. I don’t think they care though, because it’s really no big deal at all.
People really get worked up about such inconsequential stuff. One of the “charming” little traits of Seattle.
June 27, 2011 at 10:06 pm #727742
KBearParticipantYou probably won’t get ticketed for parking on the wrong side of the street, either. Or for smoking right outside the door of a restaurant. Or for using a dog leash that’s more than 6′ long. People do it all the time in Seattle. But that doesn’t make it legal.
June 27, 2011 at 10:42 pm #727743
chrismaParticipantPersonally, I always go around to the right, but that’s mostly defensive driving. I’ve seen many many drivers come blasting through those things without a care in the world that someone else might be approaching from another direction (same with uncontrolled intersections). A left turn in front of the circle is pretty much a head on collision in that instance. No thanks.
Like KBear says, you probably won’t get ticketed for making the left in front, but if you end up in a fender bender (or worse) you’re going to be the one at fault, and hopefully it will only be the cars that get hurt.
June 27, 2011 at 10:50 pm #727744
chrismaParticipantWorld Citizen, arguments about minutiae just go with the experience of living in a city filled with big brained people with a lot of letters after their names.
June 27, 2011 at 10:51 pm #727745
yamanbParticipantThanks everyone for the replies. I guess I will continue to yield to drivers already in the traffic circle.
Didn’t mean for this thread to turn into another one about turning left through the loop…
June 29, 2011 at 9:12 am #727746
dawsonctParticipantDon’t worry chrisma, I drive with my eyes open and I learned loooooong ago that you don’t enter the opposite lane if you can’t see oncoming traffic. Duh.
JFC, did you REALLY think you had to even mention that!?
June 29, 2011 at 9:18 am #727747
metrognomeParticipantc’mon, there has to be a video about this somewhere on YouTube …
July 1, 2011 at 5:58 am #727748
chrismaParticipant@dawsonct: Believe it or not, my comment wasn’t specifically directed at you and wasn’t intended to impugn your driving skills (although I can see how it read that way). I think I did not express myself well.
When I first moved to Seattle, I lived in North Greenwood and that’s where I first encountered Seattle’s traffic circles. Where I lived, everyone parked on the street and at intersections with traffic circles cars would be parked right up to the intersection on both sides of the street (I guess no Stop sign, no 30 ft rule), leaving one lane of travel. Approaching such an intersection you could see maybe 20 ft of the road to the left or the right. So while it might have appeared clear to make the left in front of the circle, in my experience, it was a coin toss as to whether you’d end up nose to nose with another car that you simply couldn’t see coming. Rather than chance it, I just stayed to the right. I had a small car and it was no big deal to go around. And if someone blasted into the circle from either direction, it would be easier to stop (or speed up) to avoid a crash. All in all it just seemed to make the most sense as far as keeping everyone moving.
Crowding the intersections doesn’t seem to be an issue here in West Seattle; at least I haven’t noticed it. But, that’s the experience I was going on when I made the comment.
This seems to be far too many words over something so trivial, but there you have it. Wasn’t my intention to offend you or any other “left turners” reading this.
An…since you brought Jesus into it, peace be with you.
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