Amanda Knox GUILTY

[transplantella]

IMO Knox was given a fair trial, decent defense, and convicted by a court after a fair hearing and consideration of evidence. From everything I've read, the Italian system is surely different from the [extremely flawed] American criminal justice system, but due process was observed and a decision handed down. Whether or not she is guilty I don't know, but the Italian system functioned according to law and she was lawfully sentenced according to the the evidence presented. 26 years for pre-meditated murder ain't so bad.

I think she should thank her lucky stars she wasn't on trial in the US state of Texas. There she would have been given an underpaid public defender to represent her, who would be allowed to sleep through the trial without recrimination, and she could have been given the death sentence and executed forthwith.

The proud state of Texas in the good ole USA is the world's most prolific executioner. There are more people on death row in Texas than any other place in the world. The state of Texas, USA, executes more convicts than any country in the world.

Amanda Knox is lucky that she was convicted in Italy and not America.

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[JoB]

transplantella..

Amanda Knox's parents paid for her representation… as they would in texas… so that part wouldn't change.

but you are right, murder defendants in the state of texas defended by public defenders do face higher conviction rates than elsewhere in the United States and are executed more frequently.

I personally don't think a fair trial is possible anywhere when there is no restriction placed on the press during a defendant's trial… i don't think we go far enough in sequestering jurors here…

A quiet sober .. even sobbing.. defendant doesn't make for good press… nor does the story of a young person accidentally caught up in something that may or may not have gotten out of control.

but an angel with devil eyes.. that's good press.

We won't really see how the actual evidence stacks up until the appeal process finishes.

as to why no defendant spoke against another.. they all claim innocence and are in the appeal process for their convictions.

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[DBurns]

I know they are all claiming innocence in some fashion but wouldn't that be motive to tell the other's involvement for a lighter sentence? Or do they not make those offers in Italy? After all of this time, and the fact that Amanda Knox claims to barely or not at all know the other suspect, coupled with the fact that she and the Italian boyfriend were only a few weeks 'together' I just can't understand the loyalty? if that's what it is? I just really can't understand it! We all know she supposedly said it was her boss that did it – no loyalty there! And so many mixed stories you would just think that one of the stories by one of the suspects would include throwing one of the others under the bus…or maybe this is just part of it we are not privy to? I'm stumped.

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[luckymom30]

I would welcome the Knox family back into the community, including Amanda. I am not afraid of her, she poses no threat to me and I agree with clark5080 that she has gotten railroaded.

Watching the Today show this morning was chilling when Dan Abrams gave his analysis of the case and the verdict and being a laywer himself said that if he was presented this case he would have had reasonable doubts but he also went on to say that even with the intervention of the U.S. government and high profile people the chances of Amanda being granted an aquittal are very slim.

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[JoB]

Dburns..

it may be innocence … perhaps there really was an intruder… perhaps in her drugged state Amanda mistook the guy who was with Meredith for her boss… who knows?

luckymom30..

Dan Abrams has a law degree and didn't spend the trial immersed in the local media frenzy.. prejudicing his viewpoint. and.. he has an American understanding of reasonable doubt, not an Italian one.

I don't think the intervention of the US govt and high profile people will do Amanda any good. In my experience, people who are leaned on tend to become resistant… not the best thing for Amanda.

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[luckymom30]

But the intervention of the U.S. government and high profile people are what the Knox family is hoping will get Amanda out of prison.

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[beachdrivegirl]

I would like to See Rudy Guede get a lie detector test in regards to Amanda and Rafael Solicito involvement. Like JoB, I have no idea what to believe. I am concerned about whether or not she was given a fair trial considering that the prosecutor is currently being investigated. And I do have compassion for her family as well as the Kercher family.

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[luckymom30]

That would be interesting! What a great point.

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[perseo]

There is absolutely no way that Amanda Knox will be acquitted, nor should she be. She received a trail with legal representation and was tried by a jury. There is no anti-Americanism here. Her short term Italian boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito got almost an identical sentence (she got extra time, because she falsely accused Patrick Lumumba of the murder). She will be allowed a chance to appeal the verdict and has a very good chance of having the verdict overturned, except for falsely accusing Lumumba, which would ave been a 2-4 year sentence and that’ll be the amount of time she probably spends in prison. They will most likely release her on time already served.

I find it very hypocritical that everybody wants the US government to get involved. How would we react if Italy sent representatives here to tell us our judicial system was Anti-Italian and bogus? Yeah. If the family want US involvement they should of instructed Amanda to go to the US consolate the second the police started questioning her and her boyfriend. It’s far too late now.

I do feel sympathy for the Knox family, although they are making it very hard. Amanda’s father evoking the memory of Meredith and how she would be upset at the outcome of the trial was disgusting. I know that he was still in shock at the guilty verdict, but come on! I think that the Knox family spent too much time and too many resources here on rescuing Amanda’s reputation and not enough time trying to understand how the judicial system works in Italy. I know that their hearts were in the right place, but every time they gave an interview they did Amanda more harm than good.

But what sunk Amanda the most, was Amanda. She never had empathy for the fact that somebody she lived with was brutally murdered and she lied her butt off. She never seemed to take court seriously (wearing a hoodie to your murder trial?) and her final statement to the jury… Horrible, just horrible. It was all about her, still no acknowledgement on the horror of what happened to Meredith.

I find it interesting how so many people enable the bad behavior of our children. In the end it comes down to basic values. Tell the true and have compassion for others. Amanda seemed to have no trouble ignoring these. What if things were reversed? What if Patrick Lumumba had falsely accused Amanda of murdering Meredith? How many of us would be screaming from the rooftops on how unfair that was, but we’re so willing to let the ‘little girl’ from West Seattle get away with it.

I, too, would like to know what really happened. I think I have a pretty good idea, but the chances of everybody coming clean now are pretty slim. I guess that will be the ultimate punishment for Amanda, living with her lies the rest of her life.

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[JenV]

very well said, perseo.

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[JoB]

perseo..

your comment explains exactly why it is so difficult to figure out what really happened…

was Amanda’s attitude a result of her imprisonment or her imprisonment a result of her attitude?

Did Amanda’s parents get poor advice regarding the Italian justice system or did they simply ignore the advice they got?

why wasn’t their first call to the American consulate? If it was, why wasn’t the consulate more involved?

Would the legal end of this story have turned out any better if the crime had occurred after the focus on negotiation attitude of the Obama White House replaced the bully attitudes of the Bush White House?

Why did an American family think they could engage the Italian media? If they have the “media machine” touted on WSB.. why didn’t that machine handle press conferences better?

Everything we see is reflected through media systems that have a vested interest in sensationalism.

I am not vested in seeing anyone.. not even the little girl from west seattle.. get away with murder… even in the best circumstances, the most unlikely people are capable of murder… and these were not the best circumstances.

but i am interested in seeing justice done and i think an impartial verdict was nearly impossible in the climate created by the media…

i don’t have to believe in her innocence to have compassion for her family… it is difficult enough to support your child when they are accused of so horrific a crime in the United States..

even more difficult in a culture and system you clearly don’t understand.

the last thing they need now is for their neighbors to assign blame to them for a crime their daughter may or may not have committed.

I don’t like her attitude as portrayed in the press either.. but that alone shouldn’t convict her.. even in the court of public opinion.

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[luckymom30]

Well said JoB!

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[perseo]

Italy is a sovereign nation with it’s own legal system. Amanda was granted every resource available to an Italian citizen in a similar circumstance. She was not shortchanged or treated differently because she was American. I don’t know what everybody thinks the US government can do to change the verdict and have Amanda released. It’s not going to happen. Everbody should focus on the appeal, which, in all likelihood she will win, except for the false

accusations against Patrick Lumumba, to which she has admitted she lied about.

And that’s the trouble with Amanda. She didn’t get convicted because of the way the press portrayed her attitude. She got a coviction because she lied to authorities and then lied again and then even lied again.

I certainly don’t blame the Knox family for their daughter’s legal troubles in Italy. They are obviously a loving and caring family, but I do feel bad for them that they received such horrible advice or to your point Job, chose to ignore good advice.

And for the record I don’t think that Amanda Knox murdered Meredith Kercher. I found the prosecutor’s case preposterous and overblown, but she did cause Patrick Lumumba a lot of pain and strife. He ended up losing his business and livelihood because Amanda chose to lie. His big crimes? Hiring her to work at his club and giving her that fateful night off when the murder occured.

I just think that there is too much outrage towards the Italians, the media and the Italian justice system and not enough consideration given to the fact that Amanda squarely put herself in trouble by not coming clean and telling the truth from the very beginning. Does she deserve to spend 26 years for this? No. And she won’t. All in all she’ll spend 3-4 years in prison, which would have been the sentence for obstruction of justice and bearing false witness against Patick Lumumba, anyways.

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[JoB]

perseo…

the problem with getting mixed up with the law in another country is that you are prosecuted according to their legal system.. not according to your own.

that alone can make it very complicated for kids who find themselves in trouble away from home.

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[Cait]

Good point about the Italian trial situation, Perseo. It disgusts me to think how many Americans are crying foul because they seem to think we would have given her a fairer trial. Case in point – the man our judicial system let out of jail mere weeks before killing 4 police officers. Yes… we REALLY have it figured out, don’t we? We convict, put to death and let go “the wrong person” all… the… time.

And something is obviously being (excuse the cliche) lost in translation between here and abroad because there are numerous credible resources to back up both her innocence and her guilt. NONE of us know what’s going on, but just because she’s in Italy certainly doesn’t mean she didn’t get a fair trial. She got an Italian trial and for better or worse it’s still a trial. It’s more than she would have been given if this had happened in some other countries.

I’m also disgusted, as was JenV, that someone didn’t even know the victim’s name. It just speaks to so many of the sick dynamics going on here on both sides of the fence.

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[perseo]

Job,

Why is telling the truth ever a problem? She lied. How do I know she lied. She got caught. Patrick Lumumba had an airtight alibi. Why are you trying to excuse that behavior? She may be young, but she is an adult and lying wouldn’t be tolerated here either. All her problems stem from the fact that she made a choice and tried to deceive the police. And for what? To protect her boyfriend of two weeks Raffaele Sollecito or the drug dealer and grifter Rudy Guede? That’s the part of the puzzle I’m most curious about. Why lie for these two? I’m not anti- Amanda Knox, but it bothers me when so many people jump on the band wagon and blame the Italians for all her troubles without acknowledging that she did some very bad things and made choices that reasonable people wouldn’t have taken. We coddle our young too much.

Good points all, Cait! At least somebody gets me.

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[JoB]

perse..

i too get you… i am not trying to excuse her behavior..

i am trying to point out that when American students go abroad, they need to be aware that they are in fact dealing with another culture and with judicial system that doesn’t work quite the same as ours.

Being far away from Mom and Dad doesn’t mean that it is now safe to break all their rules.. it is less safe to do so in another country than it is to do so at home.

I agree that she got a fair Italian trial.. but there are many Italians who agree that an Italian trial, with it’s jury exposure to uncensored press may be prejudicial to defendants unlucky enough to become part of the news frenzy.

I think we would do well to learn from the exposure of this case in our own press and move more towards the British system where the case is tried in the courtroom..not in the press. At least.. that is the intent.

As for Amanda’s lie… there is another thing we really don’t know about. She admits she was high at the time. Did she intentionally lie or was she simply mistaken? Was she coerced or misled into identifying him?

She was definately under a great deal of stress at the time… Is she the liar the press paints or simply a kid who broke under the stress?

We don’t know. As you point out, there is no reasonable explanation for a lie.

Suspects are misidentified in the United States on a regular basis. If you ask 5 eyewitnesses to a crime to describe the suspect, you often get 5 differing descriptions.

I am not excusing Amanda.. simply stating that making judgment calls from a distance based on what has been reported in the press might not produce accurate conclusions.

There is no doubt that Amanda made some very bad choices.

BTW.. i agree in principle that we coddle our young too much.. but i would phrase it differently.

I believe that our society as a whole has moved too far away from basic values.. such as personal responsibility.

As a society, we seem to condone nearly any transgression.. from traffic infractions to outright fraud… as long as you win.. as long as you get away with it…

How exactly do we expect our children to behave when this is the example we.. as a society.. set for them?

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[Johnson]

All the apologists for your friendly, pretty, white, rich neighborhood murderer refuse to recognize the criminal

originally said she was there when the roommate was murdered

and

tried to blame a black man, who proved he was nowhere near Knox & the victim

but had his life ruined anyway since he didn’t have a high priced PR firm bought for him to turn this crime into a tabloid cause celbre

especially the paid PR flacks posting at sites like this

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[JoB]

Johnson..

i am neither an apologist nor a paid PR flack…

but if you know where i can get good bucks for simply stating my opinion.. i’d appreciate it if you would pass the info along.

the current economy has hit us all.

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[ellenater]

Amanda Knox appears to me to be highly delusional. Was her mental health ever checked? She did some weird stuff throughout the trial that is very out of touch with reality. A healthy person doesn’t go lingerie shopping the day after her roommate is murdered. Her letters home right afterward were all about herself and showed no empathy at all for Meredith’s loss of life. Both her and the boyfriend looked strange in court-like you could remove the background of the court room and place them instead in a tropical vacation scene.

I personally think she did it. I don’t know whether or not she got a fair trial or if they did in fact have enough solid evidence. I do feel that there is something going on with her that has not been addressed. As a result, it is hard to trust her family.

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[DonaLuisa]

I appreciate the comments from JoB.

I’ve read, here on WSB and in other media, crticism of the so-called media campaign, including a web site, created by those who organized to support Amanda. I’m curious why the family and friends who organized to support her are critized. I generally believe in grassroots efforts to make change, in this instance to turn the tide of the media onslaught, especially the European press. So why is the Knox family and its supporters being slammed for trying to present another perspective?

As a parent I can imagine doing something similar if I was rendered helpless at protecting my young adult child.

While I haven’t followed the case as closely as some who have posted, I’ve read or watched interviews from her mother, father, and listened to another posted on BBC news from her aunt.

In these interviews some of the baffling questions are explained, such as why Lumumba was accused (a black person’s hair found with the deceased), the underwear purchase (during the investigation Amanda wasn’t allowed to collect her personal effects so she bought new undies), why she once stated she had covered her ears to block out Meredith’s screaming (a sort of dream), and why she smiled during the trial (greeting her family during the 5 minutes cameras were allowed).

I don’t feel that the “roommate issues” motive stated by the prosecution holds water. I have not read of a motive, or evidence that Amanda was present at the murder.

I am curious why the defense didn’t have Amanda and Raffaele dress a little more formally during the trial, unless it was a strategy to show them as young and innocent kids.

I’m also curious about the drugs in use — was it merely pot, which typically is considered to make couch potatoes (and maybe not violent sex offenders). And who sold who the pot? I’ve read that Rudy Guede was a low-end drug dealer. Was there any connection there? Was this addressed during the trial?

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[jellyfish]

None of us here know if she was involved in the crime. But we do know that the case against her was influenced by both the Italian and British media, and that a lot of misinformation has been propagated. There was no substantial evidence to implicate this girl in the crime. Additionally, all of her behaviors can be reasonably explained.

Was she shown to be guilty BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT, or was she convicted on circumstantial evidence and due to public/media emotion? Personal opinion, or dislike for someone, should never have the power to send someone to prison. Otherwise, what protection do ANY of us have? What if the court convicted an innocent person, and people support the verdict simply because they don’t like the way she looked or behaved?

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[perseo]

My major criticism of the Knox’s media campaign is that it was ill conceived and did more harm than good. Trying to get Americans all riled up by slamming the Italian justice system makes no sense, especially when you have two Italian jurists in the jury.

And the ‘baffling questions’ haven’t really been answered. It’s not the fact that she bought lingerie, but the comments and behavior towards her boyfriend while making the purchase that raised eyebrows.

And please don’t try to brush aside her duplicity towards Patrick Lumumba. Yes the Italian police were looking for a black suspect early on in the investigation, but Amanda lied about him. This is a decent man who had employed her and had no ill will towards her and she threw him under a bus. He lost his business and livelihood because Amanda didn’t have the courage to simply tell the truth.

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[JoB]

i have to agree with perseo that vilification of the Italian justice system does Amanda no good..

but i do think that discussion of the way sensationalized press impacts the impartiality of a jury is useful.. we place no restrictions on the press.. and only restrict jury members from exposure to the press after they are seated on a jury. Our system lies between the British and Italian system and in my opinion could use reform.

we should look at how our perceptions of a defendant are shaped by media choices… such as reporting shopping for underwear as lingerie shopping or smiling at family in court reported as though she sat through the trial with a smile on her face …

the information we have has been shaped by the Italian press… before Amanda Knox was ever arrested for the murder of her roommate.

Was she a silly insensitive immature girl? Was she simply whistling in the dark as she made whatever comments were recorded? Did she actually make those comments or were her comments paraphrased to create an impression of callousness?

How on earth would we know ???

and yet those impressions are the basis of all those gut feelings everyone is having about whether or not she is guilty.

This case is a really good illustration of why reform is needed.

i also think that putting any kind of political pressure on the Italians because Amanda is american is counterproductive. It just reinforces the image that the Italian press is selling of a spoiled american getting away with murder.

I have to repeat that we don’t know the truth.. we don’t even know the truth of why she initially said she thought Patrick Lumumba was there…

and we may never know.

What we know for sure is that her parents are going through their worst nightmare. Regardless of whether Amanda is eventually cleared or not, they have lost the daughter they sent to school in Italy… she will never be the same.. nor will they.

I am not losing sight of the fact that another family lost their child.. but the fact of the matter is nobody is dissecting Meredith Kercher behavior or her parent’s behavior … they are not on trial in the media or on a blog in their hometown.

This is Amanda Knox’s home town.. and whether we believe her guilty or not, her parents are our neighbors… or at least, they were until this tragedy occurred.

I don’t know Amanda Knox or anyone in her family. I have no connection that i am aware of to anyone who is personally involved in her story…

what i have is concern about the vigilante justice attitude that has pervaded her arrest and trial… an attitude based mostly on sensationalized media … and the lack of consideration shown for her parents.

She will most likely get her appeal… and a less emotionally charged analysis of the evidence… and then we will see.

it’s not like the American justice system always gets it right either….

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[perseo]

Job, great post as usual. Let’s get the Patrick Lumumba situation straight. He was Amanda’s employer and he gave her that fateful night of Meredith’s murder off. She was very thankful and told him that she’d see him her next scheduled work day. He sent her a text saying, ‘I’ll see you then.’ Early forensics found hair samples from a black male on Meredith’s body, so the police knew early on that a black male was one of their suspects. When they interviewed Amanda, she was interviewed after her boyfriend Sollecito, the inconsisties in the stories they were telling were obvious and they asked what Patrick meant by his text message, because they took it out of context an thought it sounded suspicious. At first, she denied that it meant anything, but it became more and more apparent to her that Patrick was a suspect and after a while she gave them a false story implicating him with Meredith’s rape and murder. All of it was a lie; forensic and DNA evidence tested negative and he had an airtight alibi. Meanwhile, he spent two weeks in jail and his business was closed down while he was in prison, also. It devastated him financially and he lost his sole source of income.

So, all I’m asking is this, is that what everybody else would do? Would you knowingly concoct a false story to implicate somebody you knew for a serious crime to get the cops off your back? Because that’s what Amanda did.

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[Author]

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