2 draft possibilities unveiled for changing Fauntleroy-Vashon-Southworth ferry schedule

By Tracy Record
West Seattle Blog editor

The task force originally convened to tackle trouble on the Fauntleroy-Vashon-Southworth state-ferry route is now reviewing two draft options for the route’s first schedule change in a long time.

The drafts were unveiled when the Triangle Route Task Force met Wednesday in Fauntleroy, its last meeting until November. It was a joint meeting with members of the route’s three Ferry Advisory Committees, some of whom also are on the task force. The drafts are one of the last steps until a proposed new schedule is goes out for public comment this fall, aimed at finalization by the first of the year and implementation next June.

Ferry system boss Amy Scarton sat in on the start of the meeting; she opened it by thanking everyone for their service. “This route is so unique,” she said, with its own task force “to work on solutions.” She said she had spent an hour earlier in the day with the UW researchers who are studying some issues on the route. She also listed some of the unique factors of the route, from the Southworth growth to the Fauntleroy dock’s renovation needs. “You can’t really find a silver bullet but there are a lot of ideas to throw on the table.”

The presentation was led by WSF service planner Justin Resnick, who said he had joined WSF just four months ago from elsewhere in WSDOT. He noted that the task force had reviewed some individual daypart possibilities in recent months and now he’s “stitched together” some possibilities into full-day options, which he stressed are “in no way set in stone.”

He said he’s spent a lot of time studying “dwell times,” which involve unloading/loading, destination(s), traveler mix. That gets to the crux of what’s vexed riders lately – boats leaving without being full because they couldn’t spend more “dwell time.” Between frequent/full/on-time boats, “we can’t have all three.” He reminded everyone that the route will have a third Issaquah-class vessel soon – but since it’s already struggling, there will be more challenges when that bigger boat joins the route. He listed the 10 types of data he’s been going through.

Then, the draft options – #1 is below, AM in the first image, PM in the second:

Looking at proposed option #1 – “school sailings” in the morning and afternoon weren’t changed. “Primary difference for morning and midday, two things that would change – a 7:25 departure out of Southworth instead of an 8:20 – that means the 7:20 single destination that used to be Vashon only is now a dual destination, and the 8:20 now becomes Vashon only. Affecting the midday and afternoon, “we took the #2 boat and did a tie-up with it – from 11:30 to 12:35 on Vashon, the #2 boat is doing its crew change,” so it can be used later in the evening “clearing out Fauntleroy.” So there’s no departure between 11:55 and 12:55 at Fauntleroy, as a result. “The other thing that happens in this schedule is an overhaul in the afternoon and early afternoon,” Resnick continued, relying almost exclusively on dual destination sailings. “What we’re really trying to do with this schedule is serve the peak direction,”so this is geared toward “unload(ing) Fauntleroy.” It attempts to build in more dwell time and set up a “more consistent pattern of where the boats are going.” That pattern starts at 3 pm. “The dwell times at Fauntleroy are going to … average 20 minutes. We know that’s one of the issues really killing us right now, the dwell time at Fauntleroy.” There will be one less sailing from Fauntleroy, but Resnick is confident that they will be able to fill the boats, and ultimately increase capacity when a larger boat joins the route at the same time the schedule changes. “We may not have to stick with the same loading-lane layout …we’re not going to be as much slaves to the same traffic mix” as now, Resnick said. “It’s going to be more, if you’re here we can get you on.” But … it might take you longer to get home, if, say, your sailing is stopping at Vashon on the way to Southworth rather than going there directly. “Currently we have higher ridership out of Vashon – but Southworth is growing, of course.”

Here is draft schedule option #2:

This one overhauls the morning, while the first one had more of an afternoon overhaul. This one has the same overall cycle time – 95 minutes (round trip) – and like the first option, does drop a trip. “This schedule is going to have a little more space for growth in the morning,” Resnick said. That would be important in case ferries’ improved performance led to more people taking the ferry and fewer driving around (although a later set of stats showed that there hadn’t been much of a boom in Tacoma Narrows Bridge traffic in recent years). There’s also a tweak that would improve getting Southworth riders to Vashon so they can catch the Water Taxi to downtown Seattle.

Some other points: Option 1 would have higher capacity during 5 am-9 am, Option 2 would have about the same. Both would have less capacity 3-6 pm. Resnick also reviewed allotments – maximum number of vehicles that can be loaded eastbound at Southworth.

Small-group discussions ensued.

The first group’s discussion was recapped with points including Fauntleroy preferring #2, Southworth frustration about option #1 not fixing anything, people with jobs in Vashon not being accommodated.

The second group had concerns about Southworth-Vashon travel taking longer, and the 6:40 am not accommodating people who needed to – for example – drop off a child at day care before getting on a ferry. To get to downtown at 8:30 am, you would have to be at the Southworth dock at 6 am, they suggested.

The third group preferred the first option, and wondered about going to a “full all-stop schedule” from 2:45 pm on.

What about seasonal considerations? Resnick said they’ve noticed that “summer” seems to start sooner – like Mother’s Day. In long-range planning, he said, there’s discussion that a two-season schedule for WSF might make more sense than a four-season schedule.

They went around the room before meeting’s end, asking for individual members’ opinions. They acknowledged there would be trade-offs – as one rep put it, resetting the schedule to benefit most, while realizing it would not be better for some. Many members saw promise in both. “Added dwell time would add reliability,” said Fauntleroy’s Gary Dawson – especially to help cover variables from cars stalling on board to medical runs. On the other hand, a participant from Southworth said he couldn’t support either one and figured everyone would be mad about the changes, but especially Southworth because it would lose more than 70 spaces in the course of a day. The current ridership from there “is completely limited by WSF – we don’t know what it would be” if the capacity didn’t have a lid. A Vashon rep said that “balance” would be a “tough” thing to achieve.

Resnick said he had considered a variety of options such as Fauntleroy/Southworth/Vashon for multi-destination boats but threw that out because Vashon ridership is still higher, though he could revisit that if recommended.

One group member said that a public observer (who was gone by meeting’s end) represented 30 Water Taxi riders who would appreciate Option 2. Resnick said he hadn’t gone to “our transit partners yet” to talk about whether they could work on connectivity – he wanted to first see how task-force and FAC members reacted.

So WSF also asked them all to mull things over for the next two weeks and send further comments. WSF’s Jon Vezina implored them to ensure that anyone else with whom they discuss the drafts is aware they are only drafts – the proposal that goes out for public comment in fall might combine elements of both … or might resemble neither.

NEXT STEPS: The Triangle Route Task Force won’t meet again until November. Much will happen in the meantime – first, WSF’s draft long-range plan will be out September 10th, and a series of public meetings will solicit comment. Those will be followed by, in mid- to late-October, public meetings about the proposed new F/V/S sailing schedule, once there’s a final proposal taking into account suggestions from this level of feedback.

Then when the task force reconvenes in November, said WSF’s Hadley Rodero, they’ll “sift through” public feedback and other comments. Meanwhile, the long-range plan will be moving toward delivery to the Legislature on January 1st. And UW researchers’ study of the route is due by year’s end.

And then whatever new schedule is adopted would be launched next June.

32 Replies to "2 draft possibilities unveiled for changing Fauntleroy-Vashon-Southworth ferry schedule"

  • just wondering August 17, 2018 (1:10 am)

    Did anyone notice the small house waiting in the ferry line?

  • Graciano August 17, 2018 (4:48 am)

    LOL! Yes and do you think they’ll get charged for being over height !?

  • James August 17, 2018 (6:27 am)

    Unless the Fauntlaroy dock can be enlarged four faster smaller ferries could process cars quicker than the three we have that we can’t seem to fill when it’s really busy. 

  • Mark Schletty August 17, 2018 (8:35 am)

    The best way to deal with this whole mess, and the best solution for those of us who live in West Seattle and have to drive over the WS bridge, is to stop having the ferries come here at all. Just go directly downtown, where all the ferry users are going anyway, and get the ferry traffic off our WS bridge.

    • Barbara August 17, 2018 (11:14 am)

      I used to live in West Seattle but moved to Port Orchard 6.5 years ago. Most of the time, when I take the ferry from Southworth, I go south of Seattle. If your suggestion was implemented, I would be forced to drive around.  There is no single “best” solution.  Everyone is inconvenienced in some way by all of them. And how would the already highly used downtown terminal handle three additional ferries?

    • Ivan Weiss August 18, 2018 (3:24 pm)

      Unfortunately for you, Mark, your interests aren’t the only ones that count.  Plenty of ferry commuters to Fauntleroy, from both Vashon and Southworth, go south when they disembark, like to Boeing, ever hear of it? I don’t imagine you’ll be sending them downtown any time soon.That dock has been in place since 1927. Chances are it has been there longer than  damn near everybody who whines about it being there. Assuming anybody 91 years old or older still cares about it.

  • Rick August 17, 2018 (9:36 am)

    Build the bridge!  Or… don’t we have a used tunnel machine laying around?

  • HS August 17, 2018 (10:35 am)

    In response to Marks comment, I love that we have a ferry in WS. It’s one of the things that makes my neighborhood fell so special. I would imagine that commuters bring in quite a bit of money locally as well – groceries, restaurants, etc.

    • Tsurly August 17, 2018 (11:14 am)

      +1. Have backdoor access to to the Olympic Penninsula is wonderful.

      • sam-c August 17, 2018 (12:28 pm)

        Yes, a lot of the decision making behind some of our weekend trips (Sequim, Port Townsend, camping / hiking all over the place)  is the ease in getting over to the peninsula from West Seattle.  It’s much nicer than heading east in the I-90 traffic for camping and what-not.  We would probably re-think all that travel if we had to mix in with the ferry traffic downtown.   Admit that I honestly don’t know much about the commuting to downtown use/ aspect, but don’t they already have a Vashon walk on only ferry that goes directly downtown? 

    • KM August 17, 2018 (1:35 pm)

      +1 as well. One of the many reasons I chose WS.I don’t ride the ferry enough to have a strong grasp on what is needed to improve this route, but it would be a bummer to see it leave the peninsula altogether.

  • Gene August 17, 2018 (10:35 am)

    This has no doubt been done- but it would be interesting to have a survey of where ferry riders are going. Mark is probably right- the majority – of commuters-may be going over WS Bridge- heading east or north. But wonder how many head south- Renton-Kent – Auburn etc.? I sure wouldn’t want to get off ferry downtown to go that direction. Plus- just out of selfishness- I love that getting to & from  Vashon/ Port Orchard-/Hood Canal for a getaway is quick & easy for this West Seattleite.

  • Lovefauntleroy August 17, 2018 (10:56 am)

    Two immediate, low cost solutions. First, have all boats go to both destinations, not single ferry boats. Second, implement a similar Go to Good pass so people can buy tickets ahead of time. They don’t have a ticketing system on Vashon. We need to pioneer this. 

  • Wakeflood August 17, 2018 (11:59 am)

    LoveFauntleroy’s take is great. I live close enough to watch the boats in the morning offload and it’s at least 75% heading north toward the WS bridge. That’s a strong enough ratio to accommodate DIRECT to downtown service and bypassing this little, TIGHT and RESIDENTIAL burgh known as Fauntleroy.  1. EVEN IF you maximize throughput at the Fntlry dock, you are past peak servicing TODAY, much less in the future. Just like with roads, you CAN’T “dockbuild” your way out of the congestion. Period, full stop. 2. Another dock expansion will effectively trash the cove – which, if you didn’t know, is an important salmonid rearing area for smolt. You like Orcas? You don’t want that.3. If you’ve CHOSEN to live on an ISLAND, you get what you get for transportation services.  You like the pastoral, LESS DENSE life on Vashon? Cool. Carpool and use transit. Demand more and better transit service.  I watch car after single occupant car come off those ferries every day.  Mitigate your impacts and everybody wins. All of which is to say, the REAL answers are the folks in Vashon and Port Orchard paying a stipend via usage fee or possibly a residence-based assessment to get you some more direct service to downtown. Passenger/Foot ferries, smaller car ferries, just bypass Fauntleroy as much as possible. It’s called dealing with your own mess.

    • M August 17, 2018 (3:15 pm)

      There’s already a foot ferry direct to downtown from Vashon, and in 2020 there will be a direct foot ferry from Southworth to downtown. Sorry, but if you chose to buy a house next to a ferry station, that’s your mess too.

    • ArborHeightsRes August 17, 2018 (6:54 pm)

      You are absolutely correct in all of your statements, both this one and the following ones. Yes, I have moved here recently, but my wife’s family has lived within blocks of the Fauntleroy terminal since the 1950’s. They agree with your sentiments and solutions. 

  • PO2WSrider August 17, 2018 (2:23 pm)

     Wakeflood – it’s easy to blame others and throw shade about what they should do differently, but it’s easy to do the same to you…. you want to live in the big city, then deal with big city traffic, don’t want to deal with WSB traffic, then move downtown… I’m sure the ferry system was there before you moved in and yet you chose to move… Might as well move in next to the airport and complain about planes taking off and landing – nothing gets solved by your complaint.  As far as your characterizations go, you are oddly very specific and yet so far off-base.  I live in PO and take the ferry to W. Seattle every day… yet never go downtown.  I work, proudly, in W. Seattle.  When I’m not going to work, I’m traveling to the airport or other points south of the ferry terminal.  In the instances that I go to a Mariners game or to the convention center for an event – I do take the Bremerton ferry, because it makes more sense and takes less time.  You can’t complain your way out of this mess… don’t like it, leave.  If you don’t want to leave then at least try to be constructive and offer some real, rational options, we all know the ferry isn’t leaving Fauntleroy. 

    • M August 17, 2018 (3:18 pm)

      Amen to that PO2WSRIDER. The Fauntleroy folk who live by the ferry seem to be very vocal (and successful) in preventing ferry dock expansion. It’s time for Vashon and PO people to group together. There are so many more of you than Fauntleroy people. If you are half as vocal per capita as the Fauntleroy NIMBY’s, you will win.

  • Homer August 17, 2018 (3:53 pm)

    Sooo how many of the Vashon/Southworth people were FORCED to move there?? The extra traffic Fauntleroy people are dealing with is because people voluntarily moved there and now expect everyone to cater to THEM.  M:Saying they’re NIMBY’s is your way of giving the middle finger.

    • WSB August 17, 2018 (4:05 pm)

      The state ferry system is part of the state highway system.

    • M August 17, 2018 (5:38 pm)

      Hi Homer. NIMBY means “not in my backyard” and that is how some Fauntleroy residents feel about the ferry. I was referring to that. I see some Fauntleroy residents on this tread who are voicing support for the ferry and I appreciate that. I think there is a vocal minority that typically shouts down the majority that benefits from the ferry system.Your question underscores the point….nobody forced Vashon/Southworth people to move there, just like nobody has forced people to move to Fauntleroy. It’s not like ferry commuters are asking for something new to be put in…they just want it to be maintained and improved just like is done for highways. The ferry was there when Fauntleroy residents moved there, so I don’t get the anger. If the ferry was so irritating when you moved there, why didn’t you move somewhere else? As someone said above, it’s like moving next to an airport and complaining about airplanes.

  • Marty2 August 17, 2018 (4:44 pm)

    As someone who lives nearby, I think the ferry dock adds a unique character to the area and I like it.  Seems to me the problem is the current dock can only hold about 90 cars and the variability of how many go to Vashon or to Southworth on any given sailing.  I doubt if the dock will ever be allowed to expand, so a bigger boat may not be the answer.  James idea of smaller boats with more frequent sailings should be considered.

  • Rana Hoyle August 17, 2018 (4:45 pm)

    PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT Take out that 4:05 am sailing from Vashon to Fauntleroy. We need that run to get to work on time at 5. 

  • Wakeflood August 17, 2018 (6:03 pm)

    So, we have one responder who doesn’t go downtown and somehow failed to realize that I didn’t say everyone does, only 75%. That’s an unassailable fact.Similarly, I didn’t say the ferry should go away, I suggested that those who CHOSE to move to a place that is serviced by a boat should look at helping themselves and others by using transit, carpooling, and lobbying for more direct connections because merely adding more parking on an expanded dock that further hoses up the fragile environment isn’t an optimum solution. In fact it’s NOT a solution at ALL.There’s REAL maximum throughput on ANY piece of roadway.  I’ve lived in Fauntleroy for 20+ yrs. and it hit that years ago.  So, again, adding more dock space and more boats does nothing for throughput, the physical space is maxed out. But again, you have no logical alternatives you simply want what you think will fix it.  And it won’t. It really, REALLY won’t.I’ve at least offered things that may reduce the impacts and maintain some functionality of a multi-use piece of road.Shaking my head… 

  • Wakeflood August 17, 2018 (6:14 pm)

    Here’s an idea, how about you do what they do in Anacortes and let you make reservations for your trip? You laugh?   Why do you think on a dock that has TEN TIMES more parking space than Fauntleroy with LESS sailings, they use reservations?  Because it gives folks certainty that they’ll make their boat AND they don’t end up stacked up into the neighborhoods during peak periods.     I’ve used it numerous times and it works just fine. Like reserve seating at an event, you don’t have to freak out and drive like a maniac and you know with certainty, what boat you’re on.  But lemme guess, that would be an OUTRAGEOUS demand on your time to have to do that? 

    • Jon Wright August 18, 2018 (10:29 am)

      Comparing Anacortes and Fauntleroy is comparing people going camping for a week to people who came into Seattle to work/shop/go the doctor for the day.

  • Dunno August 17, 2018 (7:59 pm)

    I like the good to go idea…Maybe the toll booth could be where the Lincoln Park gas station is for those without a ticket?  Would mean no parking north of there on Fauntleroy.  The idea that most would already be good to go and would just go under scanners at the dock.  From what I hear, the problem is not being able to fill the ferries?   BTW, I’m all for WSDOT getting out of the ferry biz, turn it back over to Blackball lines.   I grew up knowing Mr. Peabody.  We played in the old ferry lot, right in front of the Peabody house.  The old ferry dock was on north Brace Point.   Can still see parts of the old pilings at super low tide.

    • M August 18, 2018 (2:15 pm)

      One big problem is there is only space for one line (up along Fauntleroy) but there are two destinations (Vashon and Southworth). There may be a Vashon boat ready to load cars, but Vashon cars are stuck in line behind Southworth cars. A bigger dock would fix this since cars would wait in separate lines on the dock instead of one line along Fauntleroy.

  • yes August 17, 2018 (10:45 pm)

    walk on ferries for everybody then use buses or vans to get to downtown. Better for everybody  and less stressfull every single day, if not gridlock just gets worse and you get what you deserve for living on an island or a peninsula. Enjoy that commute you deserve it.

  • ferry lover August 18, 2018 (9:24 am)

    I come on the Fauntleroy dock and head South for work too. I love that I can bypass downtown. And I carpool with 3 other people, so I’m never a single-occupant-driver. Also, I love the access to the Peninsula and the Hood Canal. The population there is growing rapidly too, and the roads are more congested than ever, but I see a lot of carpoolers and transit users and bicyclists.

  • Rick August 18, 2018 (3:40 pm)

    I DEMAND that everything return to the way it was when I moved here 50 years ago, as I now have lots of money and influence. (Sarcasm) (And, no, I don’t) I love irony but the thing that never ceases to amaze me are the folks that bitch the loudest are often part of the problem. But they want THEIRS. Squeaky wheel, I ‘spose.

    • sam-c August 20, 2018 (8:43 am)

      Sorry, there was a ferry terminal there 50 years ago, too. You’ll have to go back farther.

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