43 Replies to "Road-rage report - from bicyclist towing 2-year-old daughter"

• Mike September 27, 2009 (12:10 am)

  Scary, glad you and your daughter are okay. The driver is an idiot. That being said, it’s incredibly dangerous to tow a child in a bike trailer in traffic. I (as an avid cyclist) would suggest that all adults think twice about putting your child or dog at risk in a trailer if you plan to ride in traffic. Us them on trails, not the road. When you ride on the road you put yourself at risk, when you ride on road with a child or dog/pet… you put them at risk. Think twice, make wise decisions. Maybe I’m overly protective of my own kid (triple checking the harness on the infant seat and always verifying I turn off the rear airbags, etc… I dunno, I’d never put my kid in that situation.

• Catherine September 27, 2009 (12:33 am)

  *blink blink* Did I just read that correctly? He wished harm on your two year old? :O

• rob September 27, 2009 (12:55 am)

  Everyone is entitled to their opinion and to make decisions for themselves. Just happy you’re sharing yours here and not trying to foist it on someone with your car.

  BTW, traffic varies. in the 7 min or so it takes me to climb from Caffe Ladro up to 35th, I typically get passed by fewer than 10 cars. It’s not like we are riding on the bridge. There just isn’t that much traffic on that stretch of California or Holden, particularly at 6:30 on a Saturday. Despite the road being wide and the bike lane being there for a reason, we normally climb the hill on the sidewalk anyway. As luck would have it, right before this happened we had to get off the sidewalk and onto the street because a SUV was blocking the sidewalk to load something.

• E September 27, 2009 (7:04 am)

  Typical, the first post in bike related crimes always blames the victim.

• lenguamor September 27, 2009 (7:35 am)

  Glad you and your little one are OK. It’s too bad that people feel entitled to act the way this guy did, and unprovoked to boot.

• Wsrunner September 27, 2009 (7:56 am)

  Sorry that this happened to you! Keep up your efforts to find this guy for people are killed every year on bicycles because of drivers like this. I’m glad you’re ok but I feel awful that this has put a bad taste in your mouth during one of your favorite traditions with your daughter. I have also had weird things like that happen to while on a run with my dog and now I’m always on the look out of a crazy man with a metal pole while I’m running… It sucks because you feel so violated and it feels like there’s nothing you can do to make it right. Thanks to the WSB for creating a place where the community can come together and voice, support, and be on the lookout for people like this! Also, don’t let the skepticism of others get you down in the comments arena…some people are just going to do that no matter what…please don’t read into it. You did nothing wrong and have every right to be on the road as the next guy. Okay, except for this bozzo in the white camry-looking car… Let’s all keep our eyes out for this guy!!!

• fatcat1111 September 27, 2009 (9:00 am)

  Interesting that you should mention this particular car. I take my daughter to Gatewood Elementary for school via bike several days per week. We’ve done this for years, and I’ve never had any sort of run-in with a car, until last week when a white Toyota driven by an older man forced us off California just south of Fauntleroy.

  I thought it might have been a mistake on the driver’s part. Now I’ll really have my eyes open. Thanks for posting.

• MMB September 27, 2009 (9:10 am)

  There is no excuse for that driver’s crazy behavior. There is not much traffic on that stretch of road and there is plenty of room to go around bicyclists. This kind of thing happens to me all the time, both as a pedestrian and a bicyclist. I’m always minding my own business and sticking to the laws.

• Smitty September 27, 2009 (9:32 am)

  What an a$$.

  I do however, fear for people who pull their kids in those trailers. Not because they are stupid, or I don’t like bikes, but because of people like the one mentioned above. I wouldn’t take the chance – even if I was in the right.

• Vanessa C September 27, 2009 (9:41 am)

  I really, REALLY try not to use the word HATE, but how in the world can you not hate a person who is obviously so full of hate himself? My hate tempers down to incredible sadness that there are people like this that we have to contend with. IF this hateful person is reading this blog, PLEASE get yourself some SERIOUS help.There is free assistance all around you. What is behind and inside your hateful self? God/Godess help you……

• Amy September 27, 2009 (10:13 am)

  There’s no excuse for what happened. That said, it really doesn’t matter whether you’re in the right or not if some crazy idiot isn’t paying attention and hits you with his or her car–and really hurts you and your kid. You’re entitled to live your life the way you want to, but boy, it sure sounds like you’re taking an unnecessary risk by riding in traffic with your daughter in tow, especially since it sounds like putting up with dangerous and irresponsible drivers is an everyday occurrence for you. Just because you stop using those trailers on the street doesn’t mean that the crazy guy won–it just means you value your daughter’s safety. You can take all the precautions you want–that’s great–but the fact remains, you can’t control the people who drive by you, and it doesn’t sound to me that by riding around with your trailer you’re having much of an impact on changing how people respond to bicyclists with trailers.

• coffee September 27, 2009 (10:59 am)

  amazing, we finally get marked bike lanes and then this happens! As I keep saying when driving around I keep seeing more and more people simply driving the way they want to drive, not by the law. 3 times in the last 2 days I have watched people completely ignore right on red after stop, meaning they don’t even attempt to slow down. 4 Way stops are another one, and then there is the new Fauntleroy Way road, people the turn lane is NOT a passing lane, and the bike lane is not a turn lane!
  I am glad to hear that you made it home safe.

• M. September 27, 2009 (11:41 am)

  I know everyone is going to hate me for this. But, people riding bikes in the street is ANNOYING! Just yesterday there was a group of about 10 bicyclists going up a street I was driving on. They would not move over and I had to go all the way in the other lane to get past them. Which I almost got hit by an on coming car. If you are on your bike you need to be more aware of the bigger more powerful cars that need to get around you. Or stay on the sidewalk.

• rob September 27, 2009 (12:38 pm)

  M. – I don’t suppose it has occurred to you that you are supposed to go all the way into the other lane to pass any other vehicle, whether its a car, motorcycle, or even a single bike. If you don’t leave the lane to go around them, you aren’t “passing”. The dashed yellow lines on the road are there to tell you where it is ok to pass, and it is up to you to figure out if oncoming traffic is too close for you to do it. Just because you’re in a hurry doesn’t mean anyone else has less claim to use the road. What do you do when you need to get around slow moving cars, delivery trucks, the mailman, people parallel parking…?

• MaryT September 27, 2009 (12:54 pm)

  I don’t even ride a bike — believe me, I’m more of a danger to myself and those around me when I try — and I find it to be no problem at all to keep my eyes open for bikes, check before crossing a bike lane, etc. I moved here from a not-very-bike-friendly town — why is it that it is so easy for me and not for others? What on earth would possess someone to be so threatened by a bike that he would try to inflict harm on them in the guise of “warning” them about harm?

  I really don’t understand the ire directed at the original poster. There is nothing okay about what the man in the car did, and that’s what we are discussing.

• WSB September 27, 2009 (1:06 pm)

  And indeed, “blaming the victim” which some of the previous comments are veering toward, is against WSB policy. So that part of the discussion needs to shut down right now. Thanks – TR

• kstineback September 27, 2009 (1:33 pm)

  Thanks Tracey for always enforcing civil discussion online here. I am convinced that this is why your blog has such a vibrant comments section, as opposed to other blogs in town. Because you encourage people to be respectful and remind them of your rules. Thank you for this.

  I am ashamed that this behavior happened in my neighborhood (and in general in my City). And, I actually think that it is not surprising that it coincided with bike lanes appearing. These lanes are a reminder to bikes and to autos that we have to share the road and be respectful of one another. And SHARING IS HARD. Perhaps it will take time for people to realize the “rules of the road” when it comes to bikes and in general, I think that our country and our city are in the midst of trying to figure out how to break our addiction to cars and foreign oil – not an easy thing.

  However, none of these hard things are an excuse for behavior like this, that in reality is an assault on the most vulnerable (2 years old!) So, I hope that you do get to report it to the police and they find the person. Good luck.

• WSB September 27, 2009 (3:54 pm)

  If my comment two up isn’t clear enough: “Blaming the victim” includes “bike trailers are dangerous.” Same as, if a Crime Watch report is posted about a car break-in, the inevitable “gee, why did you leave something in your car?”
  .
  If you want to open a discussion on the safety of bike trailers, I invite you to the WSB Forums, where it can be a topic all its own. Here it is OFF-topic – this is about a case of road rage, which could have been bike vs bike, bike vs car, car vs car, bus vs car, whatever, not about whether bike trailers are safe or not.
  .
  Thanks again – TR

• jennifer September 27, 2009 (5:45 pm)

  Rob-
  Thank you for posting this. I am so sorry this happened, though not terribly surprised. The dislike of cyclists in West Seattle is really ridiculous. My partner and I were yelled at and swerved at on California as well (in a cyclist’s dream moment, we caught them at a red light and verbally let them have it). We have a nearly 2 year-old daughter who I often pull in a trailer and I feel scared that someone will hit me just for spite. This event seems to confirm those fears. I will keep my eyes out for this car, as I am often on that part of California. In the meantime, I guess we just keep riding and keep riding defensively, ready for anything.

• Megan September 27, 2009 (5:48 pm)

  Ugh. What a miserable human being. Glad the cyclist and his child are ok.

• Vini September 27, 2009 (6:40 pm)

  To hear about incidents and drivers like this is so disheartening. I’ve ridden my bike for over 25 years all over West Seattle and have never had any serious incidents with drivers. In fact I find that most WS drivers are quite courteous. Perhaps it is because I usually avoid the arterials, bike lanes or not. I think the “sharrows” are a waste of paint and offer little protection or awareness. Just a low-budget non-solution.
  In many parts of WS you can usually ride to wherever you are going by riding parallel just one block over. Sure you have to slow down for the inersections but what car traffic there is is usually slower and more cautious. Unless you are on a training ride, you really gain no advantage by riding arterials. For example, to ride up the hill to say SW Austin from the Morgan Junction I would find my way to the alley behind Starbucks and ride south. At SW Othello take the lower (the road is two levels) 44th SW St. to Austin and you’ll probably encounter one, maybe two cars the whole way. It may be hillier but it is worth it.

• big gulps,eh? well, see ya later. September 27, 2009 (9:25 pm)

  Sorry this happened. It is a good reminder that there are disturbed individuals out there and unfortunately they have driver’s licenses and vehicles. I will keep my eyes out for this car and driver.
  –
  My motto: ride as though half the cars don’t see you and the other half want to hit you. Ride safe.

• Mike September 27, 2009 (10:05 pm)

  Tracy, I respect your thoughts on what is blaming the victim. However, if you wish to not have discussions in the blog but rather on the forum, I suggest restricting comments to be only in forums.

• Citizen Sane September 27, 2009 (10:05 pm)

  I don’t agree with ‘M’. A bicycle has as much right of way on a street as a car, and if you can’t pass a bike safely, you simply follow and wait. I have no problems waiting to safely pass bikes on my way home on Beach Drive; they’re usually going 15 – 20mph anyway. It’s a lovely drive; I can wait. In residential neighborhoods, you simply have to plan on taking your time. Leave 5 minutes earlier and chill! For the record, I don’t bike, but I think very highly of those who do. They don’t pollute, reduce congestion, and by keeping fit, won’t strain the health care system unnecessarily. Seems to me cyclists are good citizens and patriotic; more power to ’em.

• WSB September 27, 2009 (10:26 pm)

  Mike, there are many other things that can be discussed. There is a growing understanding in the online world that community management – setting rules for discussion sections and enforcing them — is vital unless you want to facilitate a free-for-all, and many do, which is fine, for them. Glenn Yelvington is the most recent to talk about this:
  http://www.yelvington.com/content/seven-keys-building-healthy-online-community
  .
  It is difficult and an art, not a science, which we have by no means mastered. I do not believe in going so far as to require registration, “real names,” and so forth, but I will not host a site where a crime, harassment, bullying, etc., victim is putting themselves open for getting rocks thrown at them simply because they wanted to share their story so others might learn from it and/or so a perpetrator might be found. People started e-mailing us to share their stories because there was nowhere else to do so. We are determined for it to be a safe place to do that – TR

• Amy September 27, 2009 (11:10 pm)

  A suggestion I have is to work with the person submitting the post to edit it appropriately so that it doesn’t invite off-topic discussion. Here, the original poster started off with a fairly lengthy defense of his cycling practice. That’s what sparked my comment, and because he devoted about one-third of his post to defending his practice and cycling in general than to the actual incident itself, I thought it was fair game. Had the poster simply described the incident, I wouldn’t have commented because it wouldn’t have occurred to me that that topic was open for discussion. If you work with the poster to edit the submission (and get the poster’s permission for doing so–or include a disclaimer on your website that you may edit posts for length and clarity)–I think you’ll find it a lot easier to control discussion and it will be more apparent to those of us reading these posts where the discussion boundaries lie.

• rob September 28, 2009 (12:59 am)

  It takes a fair bend of the mind to understand how pretexting the story to explain that I ride responsibly and am not the guy you see running red lights and weaving in and out of traffic, somehow justifies jumping the topic to your personal views about whether it is appropriate to carry a child in a trailer behind a bike.

  Your previous comment, despite your qualifying statements, comes accross as some sort of justification for a person to bully a cyclist with a car because he felt, as you do, that it is inappropriate to have a child in a trailer behind a bike. After all, I invited this whole incident upon myself by doing that, and if I hadn’t this never would have happened, right?

  I attempted to explain in advance that I follow the rules of the road because I have read enough comments on cycling stories here to know that people would assume that since I had some sort of problem, I must be one of those people who don’t follow the rules.

  The story clearly has a singular point, and that is that a fat, bald, angry guy in a small white car decided, with no provocation whatsoever, to physically threaten us with his vehicle, and that I would like to know where I can find him so that maybe Seattle’s finest can have a little chat with him.

  The context around the story was mostly intended to convey that there was no possible justification for what this guy did. I was not in his way. I was not delaying traffic. I didn’t cut anyone off. I wasn’t riding in the dark with no lights. I wasn’t riding against the flow of traffic.

  To put it less subtly, this jackass wasn’t someone stuck in a line of 14 cars behind a slow moving bike, because there was no traffic whatsoever and the bike lane keeps the bikes out of the lane used by cars. I DID NOTHING TO PROVOKE HIM OTHER THAN BEING THERE, AND HE HAD ABSOLUTELY NO JUSTIFICATION FOR WHAT HE DID.

  The “serves you right” mentality is pretty sick. The repetition of the terms “risk” and “in traffic” thoughout these comments seem positively ignorant and moronic. You’re trying to prop up your condescending remarks with exaggerations since you don’t have facts, and making some pretty big assumptions in doing so. If you for some reason think that riding in the bike lane on California south of Fauntleroy on a Saturday afternoon is the same thing as riding down Admiral toward the bridge during rush hour, you need to get out more.

  There is risk in everything. I was nearly killed in a crosswalk Friday morning, should I stay out of those too?

  Fact is, everyone has the right to do what I was doing, and I did absolutely nothing to earn the attack I received. You may not like what I choose to do, but that doesn’t make the actions of this idiot justifiable, and it certainly doesn’t make people’s opinions about where it is appropriate to ride a bike or who/what to carry with one relevant here.

• rob September 28, 2009 (1:10 am)

  I want to offer my most sincere thanks to all of the people who have emailed me information on this.

  I haven’t figured out who he is, but I have learned I am not the only one he has done this to.

• Kayleigh September 28, 2009 (8:54 am)

  I honestly don’t see the cautionary comments as blaming the victim, nor do I see all acts as equally dangerous. We all assess the danger of things differently, and that’s fine. I don’t think anybody here thinks that the driver’s actions are in any way OK–how could it be OK to threaten somebody or to wish ill on a child?

• WakeUp September 28, 2009 (10:22 am)

  Rob, I am happy you and your daughter are safe and hope you know that there are many people out there that do NOT blame the cyclist for the actions of idiot, mean-spirited, impatient, illegal and just plain bad, drivers. As a car driver, I see cars putting cyclists in danger frequently, including in West Seattle.
  Tracy, Thank you for keeping the comment thread relevant, enforcing civility in the comments, and putting a stop to the victim-blaming. Stories about road rage that involve bicycles always seem to follow the same victim-blaming pattern that appears in sexual assault and domestic violence stories (and stories that involve dogs pooping on lawns, now that I think about it), regardless of “cautionary” intent, or not. (She shouldn’t have been drinking; if she stays in the relationship she’s asking for it; he shouldn’t be riding on the road or riding with a child.) It’s hard to believe that people don’t see the stupidity and coldness in those statements or beliefs. I’m glad that WSB is expecting commenters to act like civil adults and making the Comments a safe place for the community to discuss these issues. More of that is needed online.

• monroe1200 September 28, 2009 (12:27 pm)

  Why are comments that bash car drivers o.k. but not ones that bash the bike riders? just wondering. Also, isn’t it a healthy thing to have a ying and a yang in life?

• InTheSameBoat September 28, 2009 (1:33 pm)

  Regardless of what you are maneuvering in town ie: car, bikes, motorcycle, skateboard or walking, I’ve come to the conclusion that people in general just don’t pay attention and do not care about those around them. Most are either too self absorbed or are more interested in distractions within their mode of transportation.

  I myself ride a motorcycle, so being on 2 wheels I’m cut off, swerved towards, and seem to be in deaths way by following the rules and obeying traffic laws. During this year, I’m sure if I tried to count how many days that I haven’t had to avoid dangerous drivers, it wouldn’t exceed my 2 hands.

  I’m sorry you had to deal with someone that absolutely does not care of other people and the community that they live in. I give plenty of room when I pass bikes or joggers, which is easy with my small profile. I can see arguments on both sides of the finger pointing as many motorcyclist and automobile drivers drive impatiently, follow too close, etc. But I also see more than my fair share of bicyclist, skate boarder, joggers that also do not follow the laws. No one’s perfect. Being on 2 wheels, I do have a greater sense of what is around me, debris and street conditions, cars backing out of driveways, coming out of blind corners / side streets, but you cannot catch everything.

  This 90s Toyota Camry driver by all means acted 100% inappropriately and was completely out of his place to lash out, especially in front of your child. Be careful out there and don’t let this jerk keep you from doing what you like and enjoying the bonding time with your young one.

• Amy September 28, 2009 (1:54 pm)

  I think it’s a fallacy to label every comment that offers an opposing view as “victim-blaming.” The point of my comment was not to suggest that the cyclist invited the assault, which he did not. It was only to point out that he’s describing repeated patterns of what to me sound like harrowing incidents on his bicycle, which in turn sounds to me like he’s taking a substantial risk by riding with his daughter in tow on the road based not necessarily on the risk of something happening, but on the severity of the consequences that result if something does happen. The reality is, if you’re struck by a car, the car is going to harm you far more than you will harm the car, and so even if you’re doing everything right, you’ve identified that there are crazy people out there who are still going to be bent on harming you, and if they try to do so, your daughter stands the chance of being really hurt–and it doesn’t matter whether you’re in the right or not. There are many things I am entitled to do, like walk down an alleyway at night, but I don’t because I perceive there could be a substantial risk to my personal safety. If I were attacked, of course it’s not my fault, of course the perpetrator is to blame, but you know what? I’d prefer not to be assaulted in the first place, and I really wouldn’t care if I was in the right or not–I don’t want to be assaulted. I didn’t perceive my comments to be off-topic because a substantial portion of the post involved a defense of the practice–which went far beyond ‘pretexting’ and became, in my mind, fair game. In addition, I saw that the first poster also questioned the safety of the practice, and the cyclist responded civilly to it–I had no reason to believe that my view was off-topic. Again, I fail to see what purpose offering a lengthy defense of the practice itself serves, except to invite others to offer their opinion of the practice. You’re the victim. You shouldn’t have to defend it. Because when you do, you open up a broader discussion of the safety of your practice–which isn’t the same as suggesting that you invited this assault. And once again, I will reiterate that asking posters to stick to the facts and avoid a defense of their practice is the best way to set appropriate boundaries of what can be commented on and what can’t.

• monroe1200 September 28, 2009 (2:18 pm)

  Well written Amy!

• kstineback September 28, 2009 (2:39 pm)

  @amy

  “You’re the victim. You shouldn’t have to defend it. Because when you do, you open up a broader discussion of the safety of your practice–which isn’t the same as suggesting that you invited this assault.”

  I am sorry, but this makes no sense and seems like blaming to me. I really don’t want to live in a world where our collective actions are defined by the crazy outliers who do stuff like this to law-abiding bike riding citizens. If this rational governed our choices, we would have no freedom. It is like saying that everyone should stay home when it is dark out because that is when muggings happen. What sense does that make?

• Franci September 28, 2009 (2:44 pm)

  Amy,

  I’ve reread the original posting and it is describing ONE incident, thats all.. I’m not sure where you are getting repeated patterns. The only repetition he is refering to is the negative comments on the blog – not run-ins on the road.

• Amy September 28, 2009 (3:44 pm)

  The cyclist writes it in his post:

  “I commute to work by bike, and ride with my daughter in the trailer 3-5 days a week, so I am pretty used to people honking at me for being in their way, yelling at me out their window, passing too closely, cutting me off by turning in front of me, opening their door without looking first, etc. At least one of those things happens every single day. But, I shake those things off because really, what can you do?”

  Again, I don’t understand what the description of irresponsible car driving adds to the purpose of the post, which I understood to be to identify the driver and attempt to make a police report. Again, adding unnecessary editorializing only invites off-topic discussion. As has been amply demonstrated by the direction of this thread.

  We can disagree about what constitutes “victim-blaming.” It can be interpreted very broadly. Ask three different people and they will have three different opinions. There’s a well-reasoned debate in this thread about that. Here, there’s not just a risk of being a crime victim here (assault by some mentally disturbed individual), but the risk of being an accident victim as well–where there’s no criminal intent behind the accident. And I don’t think it can be argued that the injuries that result from any car accident, whether intentional or not, are going to be severe for a two-year-old being pulled in a trailer. I don’t perceive that as victim-blaming. Others apparently do. Regardless, injecting unnecessary commentary into a post designed to elicit specific factual information is the fastest way to lose control of the discussion because people are opinionated, we have a robust history of encouraging discussion in our country, and as a result, we’re raised to express our opinions. Hence, the need to focus your posts and avoid injecting unnecessary commentary into it. I’m not the only one who’s commented on the safety issue, so while some may interpret those comments as victim-blaming, enough other people don’t so as to warrant an examination of why people perceived that topic to be open for discussion in the first place. You want to control the discussion, control the scope of the posts.

• rob September 28, 2009 (4:43 pm)

  The point of saying what you have quoted there was to differentiate this incident from those every day issues I have experienced which most anyone who cycles or drives could probably relate to. To say that I ride a lot, and experience issues on a daily basis that are generally attributed to complacency, whereas what this guy did was totally intentional.
  I said those things not to defend my practices but to try to convey how shocking and severe I felt this incident to be. Complacent acts by people operating any sort of vehicle on the road can potentially have severe consequences, but having been cycling, riding motorcycles, and riding in and driving cars for over 30 years, those complacent acts don’t really shock me anymore. A completely intentional act such as this however, I found very shocking because I can recall only a few instances in my life where I have seen someone attempt to do something so dangerous to another person with a car, on purpose.

  To put it another way, it was meant to add an element to the post which demonstrates that I know the difference between someone doing something accidentally (which I would not have written about) and someone doing something on purpose, so that someone reading this would understand that there is someone wandering around our neighborhood who isn’t just a bad driver, but someone who is clearly irrational and dangerous.

  I do have run-ins with cars, pedestrians, and yes even other bikes on a daily basis while commuting, but this is in fact the first time I have ever had an issue while pulling the trailer. By describing how often I ride and the issues I have experienced, I did not mean that I have those problems when pulling the trailer with my kid in it. This is probably mostly because we don’t ride on busy streets, seldom leave the neighborhood with it, and when we do we ride on the sidewalk or bike paths.

  That said, the majority of your comment is telling me how risky you think my behavior is and how being right doesn’t make things prudent. In the context of the post, I don’t really understand how you can’t see why that comes across as blaming the victim.

  You’re saying I invited that by saying too much, but at the same time you’re making assumptions about things that weren’t said which makes it seem as though I couldn’t possibly say enough. Aside from that little description I provided, you don’t know where, when, or how I ride with my daughter in tow, and you and others are jumping to conclusions to assume you know enough to tell me how much risk I am unnecessarily placing upon her. If you would like to know how I mitigate the risks associated with cycling with a toddler, I would be happy to have a civil discussion with you about that. But, you didn’t ask. You just filled in the blanks for yourself. Which is why your comment comes across as condescending and is so easily construed as “blaming the victim”. Make sense?

• Amy September 28, 2009 (5:22 pm)

  Sorry, but still not buying that your additional commentary contributed anything to the original purpose of your post. And, the way you wrote your original sentence made it sound like your daughter is in the trailer when you have the additional altercations. Not only did the unnecessary commentary obscure the purpose of your post, but because you didn’t write it clearly, it made it reasonable for me to assume that your daughter is in fact in the trailer while you’re riding to work and you’re getting flak from drivers. Which I’m glad to hear she’s not. I appreciate this is obviously an emotionally-charged topic for you, and that when you’re discussing it, it obviously brings up a lot of memories of unfortunate incidents you’ve experienced. The emotionally-charged nature of the topic was very apparent when I saw that you posted a lengthy post directed at me at approximately 1 AM with an all-caps section and then apparently went back at 1:10 AM with a follow-up post. That said, if you want to get the most use out of these posts, you are going to get better results when you stick to the facts and avoid unnecessary commentary and background information. You and I are simply not going to agree on this, and that’s fine. I don’t believe I’ve been uncivil in my comments. I’ve avoided name-calling, I haven’t used all-caps, I’ve avoided derogatory terms, I’ve done my best to address you in the third-person where possible (although that now appears pointless), and I’ve avoided responding to your comments in an emotionally-charged fashion. I see two issues here: one, the issue of soliciting facts so that you can file a police report, and two, the issue of your practice of riding with your daughter, which you spend a lot of time discussing in your original post. I disagree with your assessment of the risk. So do other people. I think it’s apparent that you are not going to say anything to me that is going to satisfy me that taking a small child in a trailer on a road when the trailer is meant for trail use is a risk worth taking, and it’s apparent that I’m not going to say anything that is going to convince you that you haven’t appropriately assessed and managed the risk. The point is, you really wrote about two things in your post, and you are simply are not going to convince me that those details about your other cycling tribulations and your safety precautions have anything to do with the incident itself. It is also unhelpful in terms of setting discussion boundaries when you acknowledge and engage in a discussion with one poster who takes a similar view and then tell me that my opinions are inappropriate to express. We are simply going to have to agree to disagree, and leave it at that.

• rob September 28, 2009 (6:24 pm)

  Sorry, the only way your stance makes sense is to pick that one paragraph and ignore what is said around it. If you continue reading the next paragraph its pretty evident that single paragraph isn’t the point at all.

  In this manner, you could pick anything I said and add it to your tally of subjects in the post. I mentioned taking my daughter to the coffee shop and to a playground, but you don’t chalk those up as additional subjects. I am sure there are plenty of people around who would like to tell me its inappropriate to take a child to a coffee shop or take a 2 year old to a playground built for elementary school kids.

  It might help to consider that what you read was effectively a letter I wrote, not an attempt to write an article.

  You’re right that you’re not going to convince me that I haven’t appropriately assessed and managed the risk, because you disagree with an assessment you have no knowledge of. There is still a mountain of information I know you simply don’t have. You aren’t willing to concede that is the case and find out what it is you don’t know. As an example: “taking a small child in a trailer on a road when the trailer is meant for trail use”. You don’t know what sort of trailer I have and you assume it is meant only for the trail. There are many that are made for use on the road, and I happen to have one. This could go on and on, but there really is no point in it.

• Carol September 28, 2009 (6:45 pm)

  I am glad that no one was hurt. I agree that you should be able to ride as you were without jerks like that scaring you.
  I use my bike to ccommute to work as well and Friday I was traveling eastbound on Hinds at 45th Ave SW, right by Madison Middle School, ( very congested area at 7:45 am). I yielded to traffic traveling N & S and then proceeded eastbound and the car traveling westbound turned left right in front of me. Fortunatly I had time to stop before they hit me. The driver had a child in the car and I’m sure he or she was going to drop that child off at the School. I had a flashing headlight on and wear a neon yellow biking jacket. I believe they looked right at me. I also believe that people have a one track mind when it comes to their mission, which is: drop my kid off and get on with my day. This event rattled me through the weekend. I have decided that it is not worth it to compete with cars in this area (even though at this point I am 2 blocks from work). I will leave earlier and or take a longer route to avoid the crazy drivers around Madison Middle School at 7:45 am. Right or wrong, I would still end up the loser if there is an accident. My safety and sanity is more important. I still urge drivers to allow more time for your “mission” and put yourself on a bike and realize what we are talking about.

• angelescrest September 28, 2009 (9:00 pm)

  First of all, I am outraged by what happened to Rob. I will so keep my eyes open for this maniac on my daily ferry jaunts.
  Secondly, I can’t believe anyone would come up with something negative to say about this post. Like, what is up?
  Thirdly, as a daily biker, yep, not a day goes by when my life’s not being jeopardized by a driver or, lately a walker w/cell phone who ambles out into the road right into my path…everyday, there’s a need to squeeze those brakes.
  That being said, I was thinking what great drivers it does make those of us on two wheels. You are ALWAYS in a defensive mode: extra eyes, extra intuition, you really expect the worst. I believe I am a much safer driver because of my biking.
  I also take my daughter out in the trailer, and once again, I am stunned by what happened and so sorry.

• BB September 30, 2009 (8:22 pm)

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPtTNRGDkgw&NR=1
  buy a camera or two.

Sorry, comment time is over.