West Seattle James Ruzicka Murders 1973

[Shrimp]

I think this has been a very interesting reparte. I am glad that most posters grasped the core of my comments about Penny. She was a great person, and did make a mark in this world in her short life.

To us_booker – If you’re the paperboy who found her, I know you too. I am from the neighborhood. Please hold onto the person Penny was, who we knew her to be.

I hope that we have given pdxbear some peace about his “cousin”, even though I still am somewhat curious and suspicious of his/her motives. He/she deserved to know at least that.

Regardless, I also think that this topic has brought up some valuable dialog, on several levels. I hope to get answers to my questions.

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[uc_booker]

Shrimp,

I am the paperboy who found Penny. My email address is uc_booker@hotmail.com. Please email me so that we can reconnect. Thanks!

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[Gina]

Madison had a memorial garden to Penny, with a marker sign. It was torn out when the school was remodeled.

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[JoB]

shrimp…

I am not sure what questions that are any of our business are unanswered.

it is obvious that this experience affected uc_booker enough that well into adulthood he used the internet to try to connect with the family to make sense or bring closure to his experience.

pdxbear was reacquainted with an unresolved family secret and reached out seek answers the family wouldn’t provide.

If the family’s privacy is that important…

why would our desire to know the reasons why this family chose to shroud this tragedy in secrecy trump their need for privacy?

We aren’t the ones who need answers here…

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[Gina]

For newsreports from the time, find out if your local library has the America’s Genealogybank/Newsbank database.

I took a look and there are many reports on this story as events were unfoldinging. To access this database on the Seattle Public Library site you do need a Seattle Public Library card. You don’t need a library card if you walk into a Seattle Public Library and want to look at it on a computer.

I checked Multnomah County Public Library’s database. They also have the Newsbank database.

King County Library uses Newspaper Archives database.

Options for anyone that wants to go more indepth into this story.

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[uc_booker]

JoB, you are way off the mark. Remembering someone, giving them their due, has nothing to do with trying to make sense of something or bringing closure. I am remembering Penny. I remember the garden at Madison. I am very sad to hear they tore it out.

We remember 9/11, WW II victories, Pearl Harbor every year. Is that not being able to make sense of the events or our inability to find closure? What a preposterous assertion! Penny deserves to be remembered by someone if the family refuses to do so.

No one is questioning the family’s right to privacy. A member of her family is trying to find out about her as a person. Why is this so hard to understand? Talking about her as a person is not taking away from the family’s right to deal with the rape and murder as they choose.

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[Shrimp]

JoB; What I would like an answer to (and maybe it doesn’t matter since I am being opaque about some details) are:

1) How did the paperboy (uc_booker) know how to contact Penny’s “cousin” (see original email) if he didn’t even know the names of his relatives?

(That is what sparked pdxbear’s curiosity about his “cousin”…”he was contacted recently by the paperboy who found her…”) It wasn’t the member of the family that was looking for her originally, the paperboy contacted pdxbear…supposedly.

2) It seems to me that the paperboy has and would have had all the information pdxbear would have wondered about with regard to his “cousin”.

3) Why hasn’t pdxbear joined in any of the lively conversations? Would have answered alot of questions that have come up….again, making it quite odd.

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[uc_booker]

The moderator of the blog already told you to stop trying to question peoples’ motives. If you don’t have anything positive to say, don’t say anything. Get on with your life. If you had paid attention, I said I found the cousin on Facebook, but its obvious you would rather spend your time coming up with conspiracy theories. And, I don’t blame the cousin for avoiding the debacle when no information is being shared only the latest theory on how Elvis was abducted by aliens and is living in a cave with Big Foot. I still haven’t received an email from you “shrimp,” which only proves that you are not from the old neighborhood, just a Gladys Kravitz.

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[JoB]

shrimp…

though i really don’t like the way uc_booker said it…

he did answer both your questions…

as for contacting him… i wouldn’t contact him either.

some people just can’t help shooting themselves in the foot :(

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[uc_booker]

job, you were not invited to contact me and I would call the authorities if you tried.

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[GenHillOne]

I’m sufficiently creeped out.

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[Shrimp]

So, this has taken a strange turn. I provided general info about Penny (my friend) in hopes of painting an accurate and lovely picture of exactly who she was to her “cousin”, with friendly intent.

uc_booker was kind, until the last post painting me in a very poor light….undeservedly. The reason I haven’t contacted uc_booker is exactly because I am from the neighborhood and know who he is. I will not say more on that.

JoB: Exactly. I had not read the “Facebook” thing earlier, for whatever reason. That was where the question came from, not for any doubting motives really. It was me trying to understand how this came up. It’s been 37 years. That, and what I know about people who were in my neighborhood at that time (no names). I had more fear than I am willing to explain here, but people know.

GenHillOne: Right on the money! Creeped out, with intuitive reason.

I’m sorry for anyone who has been offended, and hope it wasn’t me offending anyone. Just wanted clarity, on a topic long since tucked away but not forgotten. Penny would not have enjoyed this, and I’m sure her family doesn’t.

To Penny: I missed out on lots more days in the sun with you, but I know you’re riding your bike in endless sunshine. Know that you will always be remembered as having been a good friend.

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[uc_booker]

shrimp, I’m not buy you as a victim anymore than I am buying you as an old neighbor who knew Penny. I certainly did not try to speak for Penny nor her family and do not think you had any right to do so either.

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[Shrimp]

Again, sorry anyone got offended even if they became offensive. I am not a victim, and have never said I was. I did not pretend to speak for the family nor for Penny. I will not be goaded into proving whether or not I was from the area. I know I was. I’m moving on, because this has gotten way off track from the original request…to learn something about a relative. I can only hope that I provided a glimpse into who I knew Penny to be, without disrespecting her family. Moving on with my memories….Done.

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[JoB]

uc_booker..

the undeserved hostility spread over several posts is what i was referring to as shooting yourself in the the foot.

as stated… i have no wish to contact you at all.

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[uc_booker]

The hostility is very deserved by both of you. Even after the moderator of the blog specifically asked you to put up or shut up, you rambled on over another twenty-four hour period and many posts. If ever there was a need for a moderator to re-evaluate the policies and procedures of this site over the behavior exhibited by both of you. You should be ashamed at your disgraceful disregard for many requests for both of you to just shut up, but you just refuse to let it go and move on. Try doing so now…

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[inactive]

Nobody has to respond to anybody. There isn’t even a discussion here. It is nothing but antagonizing each other for whatever reasons you each harbor. Doesn’t matter.

The original poster has not EVEN participated in this for God’s sake.

I’m willing to bet this thread will disappear soon. But, not because any of you “won” or were more right.

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[TammiWS]

Wow. This has taken a turn.

First off, my post had everything to do with this situation/request (ref post 22). I have no problem sharing memories of a person. Its the sharing of DETAILS that could connect this person to her family, even via a small seemingly irrelevant detail – that I’m concerned with and was trying to get across. I’m not even talking about addresses, names, etc which obviously the moderators would remove. But ‘inconsequential’ details are still details about a family. I urge caution.

That said, I find it interesting I get called out on post 22 for making this about ‘my story’ when in fact it was about my experiences and beliefs being stated as a way to relate concerns – which those who call me out have done countless times on this site as a way to relate.

And now one of those I cautioned about is reeling and the other hasnt even chimed in, my point being made. In situations like this – and TOPICS like this, people need err on being cautious and conservative as you dont know who you are really speaking to!

Its not comparable to asking for information about restaurants or window cleaners. This is completely different. I would think that some of those who’ve shared intimate details about their lives as reference would understand that.

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[JoB]

TammiW

Uc_booker overreacting to every comment doesn’t change a thing here.

so what if he is being rude and making others unwilling to participate?

his rudeness doesn’t make him necessarily dangerous to anyone but himself.

what makes me sad is that his rudeness will be used to justify the the behavior of others.

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[liberal1]

I am going to have to agree with the dood. This is not a church social. No one should be telling others to be conservative. You can do that in the voting booth in November. Since no one is advancing the conversation, you should really stop posting here. Feigning indignation isn’t attractive on anyone.

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[WSB]

And overall, particularly since the OP has never returned, this topic is closed.

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[Forensics]

The paperboy story seems weird to me. Not only does he recount specific details, but factually they are incorrect. Penny was not undressed by detectives at the scene of the crime, she was fully clothed when she was brought to the coroner. You would not undress a victim for 1000 reasons at the scene of the crime, even back in 1974 which brings me to point #2.

The “paperboy” says he found her body in 1973. Her body was found in 1974 – how would you not remember this? Additionally, her stated age was incorrect. She was not 14 or 15, rather was exactly 15 years of age. After 30 years, you would think if you found a murder victim of such infamy in WA state, you would know these details as if tattooed onto your hand.

Why did he walk so far down into the woods to urinate? The woods were desolate and you did not have to go but 10 steps to avoid the public. Her body would not have been found unless you went quite far into the woods.

It is not that his story is entirely unbelievable, but the facts are all wrong. Are you saying they undressed her, you saw burn marks and teeth marks – from what distance? How were you able to determine what these marks were from such a distance or did the police let you hang out for their investigation? Again, neither bite marks nor burm marks were present on her body at the scene, she remained FULLY CLOTHED until reaching the coroner’s office.

Something is amiss with his story.

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[Forensics]

UC-Booker seems confused on many details. It is sort of odd that someone who saw such a scene would be completely fine within a week, when it takes hardened detectives years to escape seeing scenes like that one. While everyone processes trauma differently, to be a young kid, come upon THAT horrific scene early in the morning, I would think it would take years to overcome…not a few nights.

How on earth did the “paperboy” know Ruzicka came back every 2-3 days to rape a deceased victim? I think BOOKER is confusing Ted Bundy and Jim Ruzicka. There was no evidence that any necrophilia ever took place and her body was so decomposed that it would have been impossible to tell, especially from the scene. It was never addressed in court so again, the facts are wrong.

While his detailed story on here in 2010 was 7 years ago, I would love to have a response to my two posts by this alleged “paperboy.” Maybe he did find her, but with so many incorrect responses to the facts, it does have me questioning how, why and when all of this occurred in his eyes.

Again, she was NEVER undressed at the scene. If you saw the crime scene photos, this would prove this to be true. The coroner would remove the clothes so as not to disturb vital information that untrained detectives might accidentally do. She was brought the coroner’s office as she was found, fully clothed, with the rope still around her neck. This is called “preserving evidence.”

If you removed clothing, not only do you tamper with evidence collection, you can compromise it fully. Cross contamination, fingerprints, hairs, dirt, etc. could get on the clothes. Did they decide to fully redress the victim for the autopsy?

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[Abyss]

@ Forensics, do you work in forensics? This is the most exciting thing going on in my life, not kidding. I agree with you about the Paperboy, why would he be allowed to hang out at the scene of the crime?

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[mark47n]

Why, oh why, did you resurrect a thread from 7 YEARS AGO?!

I can’t believe that I’m going to engage in this; Forensics, you make a great many assumptions that are not evidence based, but are based on what you think would be normal behavior. Memory, especially 36 years after the fact, is fallible.

I won’t speak to the credibility of the witness as I refuse to research this, but to try to rehash a crime that has gone unsolved this long just spinning your wheels.

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[Author]

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