The Death Penalty

[dhg]

Against it. I think it is wrong to kill regardless. There have been times when I would happily see someone put to death but it is wrong all the same.

:: Deters others? Don’t think so. When Bundy was caught in Colorado (people here not too great at catching serial killers), he asked the PI reporter where the death penalty still existed. He was told Florida and when he escaped that where he went to kill a couple more young women. Texas puts a lot of people to death but I don’t think it deters anyone there.

:: World Press is catching on to the fact that we not only kill a lot of people, we also lock up a huge percentage of our own. Check out the film Prison Valley at prisonvalley.com. A Frenchman, self-righteously angry at our practice of lockup, lockup, lockup.

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[Smitty]

dhg, curious what your thoughts are on national defense and killing the enemy? Should we taz them, or does this fall outside of your “wrong to kill regardless” statement. Home invasion? Do you draw the line anywhere?

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[Carson]

Smitty,

You are pretty funny! Tell you what, I will donate enough for one girl on welfare to have a termination and I will donate it in your name. Years from now when she is a happy, well adjusted woman she will thank you for allowing her to have control over her own body!

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[Smitty]

What if the mass of cells “termination” is a girl? Where is her choice? How does that square?

How about I pay for some education for the woman in your name, and instead of having a convenience abortion she actually gives birth to the mass of cells.

Years from now, when she’s a well adjusted “mass of cells”, she’ll have you to thank for not letting some woman make a choice of convenience.

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[JanS]

Smitty…until you are capable of birthing a baby yourself, I would appreciate it if you would keep your hands off my rights…thank you very much.I say that in the nicest way possible, really. Convenience? You think it’s just because it’s an inconvenience to women? Not in my world. Having an abortion is undoubtedly one of the hardest things a woman could ever do. I have never done it. Took me almost 5 years just to get pregnant…planned and wanted. But…here’s the thing. When men will take the responsibility for birth control on their shoulders, when they will stop and think before they bed a woman without a guarantee that no pregnancy will happen, then maybe things could ( operative word, could) perhaps be different. But men run away from responsibility way too much – they do not stop and think of the consequences, just what feels good at the time…and the woman is left to make the hard decisions. And women? We need to educate, and stop teaching abstinence. Birth control, birth control, birth control. Sex is gonna happen. Pregnancy doesn’t have to.

Smitty, you should thank your lucky stars that you will never, ever have to make such a hard decision !

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[Carson]

Smitty,

My cash, my choice. Besides, lucky me, my wife already donates to PP and her Real Fortune 500 Company matches her donation!! I love America!

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[dobro]

The thread is entitled ” The Death Penalty”. A very deep subject with many facets to discuss. Dude, why not start your own thread entitled “Anti-Choice- a male perspective” instead of hijacking this one?

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[HMC Rich]

I am opposed to the death penalty. Let them rot in a Supermax in isolation.

Last time I checked, it takes two to tangle unless you use some other form of insemination. This right to do what I want with my body argument misses the point. You have to engage in sexual relations to have a kid. That is the choice. Yes or NO. Almost 50 million since Roe v Wade. This might seem callous, but the aborted children could have been tax paying members of society and the earning power of an extra 40 to 50 million would have softened the entitlement crunch that is going to hammer future generations (that were allowed to live). We will never know.

Regardless, for now abortions are legal.

I am not thrilled about single moms or dads raising kids but I would prefer that over an abortion. The incarcaration rate of inmates of single parents is much higher that children of dual parents. I would rather see adoption with men and women, men and men, and women and women, to give these kids a chance.

But, and I suppose I might be called hypocritical for this…I am not opposed to morning after pills, contraceptive devices, etc. It is not an easy issue to deal with for anyone.

By the way, Planned Parenthood’s founder was a racist who spoke at KKK rallies and essentially promoted Eugenics after visiting Europe. She wanted to quietly kill black babies. Quite a role model. Funny thing Carson, I believe you called all the Tea Party people racist or with the kkk but you give to an organization that started under the name of racism. Hi JoB, more “useless trivia” I wonder if Zinn writes about this?

I am opposed to the death penalty. Let them rot in a Supermax in isolation.

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[Carson]

or an extra 40 million on welfare. I prefer the government stay out of my bedroom and off my body. But that’t just me, I suppose you just trust the government a little more than I do Rich…(whatever you do, don’t read Freakonomics)

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[JoB]

Smitty…

Let me tell you the bright future you paint for the woman who nurtures that bundle of cells and carries it full term to adoption is more fantasy than reality.

Unfortunately adoption day is NOT the end of the story.

Ask someone who knows.

Ask about the long term psychological impact. Ask about suicidal anniversary depressions. Ask about missed opportunities.

Ask about the father who didn’t want to be found when the kid came looking.

Ask about the kid who wanted to be raised in a family like yours where adults take time for kids…

ask about the kid who saw only missed opportunities when he came looking.

Ask about the feelings of failure when the largest sacrifice of your life didn’t provide a better life for your child than you could have provided on your own…

Ask about the feelings of failure when you realize that you could have provided more.

Ask about the women who can’t face a reunion with the child they gave up.

Ask what that does to the child.

Yes, ask.

because clearly you think birth is the only issue here.

This is such a complicated issue. and the irony is that with all that.. my adoption story is what is considered a success…

My kid was raised by parents who loved him… even though they chose divorce so he ended up in a single parent family.

My kid was educated and is successful…

and our reunion was successful and permanent.

But in retrospect.. i can clearly see that i did not make the best choice for my child when i chose to put him up for adoption.

When your child calls you annually for nearly a decade.. not to thank you for his adopted family… but for not killing him… you have no doubt that you didn’t make the best possible choice.

I have no way to tell you if abortion would have been a better option since that was not the choice i made… but i can tell you that there are no easy choices when it comes to an unplanned pregnancy..

and no-one walks away unmarked no matter what choice is made.

HMCRich…

it is too easy for a man to say that if a woman didn’t have sex she wouldn’t have an unplanned pregnancy.

although i know much is made of the femme fetale who seduces man after man…

even more is made of the man who scores.

sexual touchdowns result in unplanned pregnancies.

sexual coercion among partners results in unplanned pregnancies.

date rape results in unplanned pregnancies.

rape results in unplanned pregnancies.

incest results in unplanned pregnancies.

i could go on with that litany.. but i suspect you get the idea.

but placing both the blame and responsibility for unplanned pregnancies on women is more than a little unfair and pretty damn convenient for the male half of the population.

I sincerely hope that you never have to experience that inequity as a parent.

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[JoB]

death is not the worst thing that can happen to a person…

fear of death is not the deterrent we would like to make it out to be…

if it was.. our suicide rates wouldn’t be so high.

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[dhg]

I do recall way back in the 1980’s the Catholic Church took out a full page ad in the paper asking for dialogue with the pro-choice people, saying we should start that dialogue by going through the items we can all agree on. Point #1: abortion is murder. …… I was amazed at that. A complete waste of ink.

But back to the death penalty. I see it as a morality issue. I’d like to think that if we, as a people, can all agree that taking a life is wrong, it will percolate down through our culture and result in a lower murder rate than what we have now. That would be a win-win.

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[B-squared]

i used to be on the fence about the death penalty but Charles Campbell changed that. piece of work, that one. good riddance.

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[JoB]

B-squared…

i don’t disagree that this person was a waste of space…

but we paid more as a society for the right to kill him and gave him far more attention than if we had simply incarcerated him.

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[HMC Rich]

Carson, I have not read that but I think I should.

Also, I want the government to stay out of my bedroom too, unless they are really cute, or a paper bag is available if they are not! I kid. I kid.

The death penalty deters people who are calm and rational. Not so good when people are not of sound mind and judgement. I must admit, I was not sad when Jeffrey Dahmer was offed by the prison population in Wisconsin.

I went on a trip that year. I was in Indianapolis when the Mike Tyson, Desiree Washington issue happened. I was in Milwaukee when they caught Dahmer. I am just glad Ed Guin didn’t reincarnate that trip.

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[Carson]

I would be happy to email you the e-book version, wait, that might be illegal, I can lend you the hard copy if you like paper!

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[Author]

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