The Death Penalty

[DP]

Cal Coburn Brown: Executed early this morning at Walla Walla for the murder of Holly Washa in 1991.

Here are some of the arguments one could make in favor of the death penalty:

1. It gives people a sense that justice has been done. A life for a life, etc.
2. It sends a clear message to would-be killers that they could ultimately be put to death themselves. Thus, it deters crime.
3. People who are executed in prison can never kill anyone else. Nor will they be a further burden on the state.

Here are a few of the arguments against:

1. There’s no evidence that the death penalty actually deters murder. Therefore, it’s pointless.
2. Capital punishment affects poor people and minorities disproportionately. Sometimes innocent people are convicted and put to death, simply because they couldn’t afford a competent lawyer.
3. Defending death row appeals is expensive—a waste of taxpayer money.

Opinions anyone?

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[moxilot]

response count estimate: 179

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[Carson]

Personal feelings is I am against the death penalty. No, not for those feel good liberal type of feelings. I think its a cop out. For the most part those sentenced to death have committed terrible crimes. Why should they be allowed to die all nice and peaceful unlike their victims? Nah, they should die a long, slow death, in jail, with as much suffering as possible, hopefully with daily visits from Bubba and all his friends.

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[Jiggers]

16 years extra to live? talk about a generous country we have..:(

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[CarolPB]

That’s if you call prison life “living”

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[maplesyrup]

I used to be in favor of the death penalty but after thinking a lot about it over the past few years I’ve changed my mind.

It comes down to what should be the purpose/function of the penal system, or how you prioritize the multiple purposes. Is it rehabilitation? Deterrence? Protecting the public? Punishment? Revenge?

Of all of those purposes, the only one in which the death penalty is superior to life in prison (without the possibility of parole) is revenge. Is revenge what we’re really after? And in meeting the rest of the purposes, life in prison is equal or superior to the death penalty.

I also have a lot of doubts about whether we should be giving the government the right to take the lives of its citizens. Corruption and inefficiency are unfortunately part of the system. Knowing how inept the government can be in other areas, do we really want to let them make this kind of decision? I don’t want to see anyone executed because of an erroneous conviction.

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[BikerDude]

life sentence in isolation, no tv, no paper, no books no nothing except bland sustenance. i don’t have issue with the death penalty per se; but it is legally very expensive and the alternative i noted would be far worse than death

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[dobro]

I’m against it. The state should not have the right to kill citizens. You might think it’s ok as long as they’re killing people you feel deserve it. But if you think for a second beyond your lizard brain, its pretty easy to see that if they’re deciding on the laws that trigger the death penalty its not a long stretch from 3 strikes you’re out to 3 strikes you’re dead, depending on who’s in office at the time making those laws. The state should not have that power.

The money thing is a non-issue. In a civilized society you should be willing to pay the price to house criminals. One day its “why feed that murderer for life” to ” why feed that bank robber for life” and then “why feed that bicycle thief for life”. Slippery slope I believe they call it.

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[TDe]

With the advancement of DNA testing, there have been a shocking number of wrongful convictions overturned. The possibility of wrongful conviction and execution has been very strong in our country over the years. I cannot support the death penalty or allowing the state the license to kill its citizens, either. Life behind bars, completely removed from society to protect our society – absolutely! Meager comforts – totally!

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[EmmyJane]

Well said Maple.

I’m very very very very against the death penalty. I still can’t figure out why it’s illegal for anyone to murder (exception self-defense), even in retaliation, with one exception: the government.

It does not deter serious crimes. You can’t undo it and it’s been proven that innocent people have been put to death. And even after all of that if you still believe that the death penalty is ok, there is of course the practical reason that it is ridiculously more expensive then housing an inmate for life.

And to the point of closure for families, I would argue that it drags the process out MORE for families. If someone got life in prison, after a couple appeals the process would be done. If the death penalty is in place, the family is constantly WAITING for something to happen, in this case for almost 20 years. Not to mention traveling to the execution site only to have a last minute pardon. To me, it makes no logical sense to be FOR capital punishment.

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[EmmyJane]

Side note: DP- you start the most fun threads. :-)

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[Smitty]

I’m personally against it. Even if the judge/jury get it wrong just once (and I’m certain there are many, many more cases than that) we can’t take the risk. Also, if it takes 16 years from start to finish it will not act as much (if any) of a deterrent.

But I also want to say – before it inevitably gets brought up – you CAN be pro death penalty AND pro-life. It is not inconsistent. The unborn did not break any laws, those on death row did.

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[BikerDude]

in lieu of the death penalty a life sentence in isolation with only basic sustenance, no books, no paper no nothing would be fine with me

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[JoB]

Smitty…

you make me chuckle…

you worry about the judge/jury getting it wrong when it comes to the death penalty ..

but have no qualms about legislating that the fetus’s health is more important than the mothers.. period.. end of story.

what if you get it wrong there?

And what about the child a fetus becomes?

It’s no mystery that a disproportionate number of those incarcerated were not the result of planned pregnancies.

the life we provide our prisoners looks so good to many of them that they repeat offend just to re-enter prison where they are fed, clothed and educated.

There is a huge disconnect there somewhere

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[Carson]

Come on JoB, you can’t take Smitty serious, he just likes to tell stories. I still like the one about the Fortune 500 Company that berates and scares its employees yet wouldn’t hire a qualified woman if she had hairy legs!

.

(in a cute, 8 year old voice) Come on Uncle Smitty, tell us another story!!

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[dobro]

“But I also want to say – before it inevitably gets brought up – you CAN be pro death penalty AND pro-life. It is not inconsistent. The unborn did not break any laws, those on death row did.”

Illogical nonsense.If you profess to be “pro-life” (another meaningless term-who’s not “pro-life”?) and believe all life is sacred, then you can’t qualify that with “I’m pro-life except when I’m not (death penalty)” It’s not about laws, it’s about what you believe. In this case-prolife and pro death penalty- a massive case of stupid plus hypocritical.

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[Smitty]

Job, have you ever heard anyone say “put your hand on my tummy and feel my fetus kick”? Too funny.

Carson, I would hire a hairy-legged woman if she had a big rack ( disproportionate to her lower half, I might add). The one that helped increase sales at Target had the chest of an 8-year old boy iirc.

Dobro, so are people who are pro-choice and anti death penalty hypocritical too?

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[Carson]

I have never heard anyone say, in the first trimester to feel my fetus, my baby, perhaps my mass of cells, but that’s about it…

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[JoB]

Carson..

no fooling…

if you aren’t paying attention you probably won’t even know you are pregnant…

Smitty…

pay more attention to a woman’s rack than her brain at your own peril ;->

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[Smitty]

“Mass” of cells” at 12 weeks:

http://www.babycenter.com/fetal-development-images-12-weeks

Have a great day!

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[Carson]

Smitty, every day is a great day! Heck, its even opening day for the Seahawks and there are in first place! I might even stop over at Planned Parenthood and give them a sawbuck in your name on the way. Wait, they are closed on Sundays, ok, tomorrow…

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[Smitty]

Thanks, Carson.

I realize that would be a large percentage of your weekly welfare check, so it means a lot.

And, the Seahawks are technically “tied for first” – but I am a college football fan anyway (those blue collar Seahawk fans are a little “aggressive” for my liking).

Hope your greater day keeps getting greatererer!

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[dawsonct]

I find it interesting that the most vociferous proponents of the death penalty usually also don’t trust our government to competently produce positive results in any other area.

Any country that has the most prisoners (the U.S.) as well as the largest percentage of their population incarcerated (the U.S.) and a legal system which provably works better for those with wealth than it does for the rest of us (the U.S. of A.!) should NOT be putting it’s citizens to death.

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[DP]

People are right when they say the death penalty shouldn’t be about revenge, but aren’t they contradicting the spirit of that sentiment when they say that people should get raped or tossed into solitary confinement? I mean, it seems like revenge can come in lots of different flavors besides just . . . death.

In any case, whatever we decide the true object of imprisonment to be (punishment, deterrence, rehabilitation), I think we can accomplish that object without resorting to brutality.

Re: Cal Coburn Brown

Mr. Brown had some classically psychopathic character traits. The brutal and senseless nature of his crimes was evidence of this, as was his failure to show any remorse or empathy for his victims. It is therefore unlikely that any punishment, no matter how enlightened or cruel, would have reformed him.

Although psychopaths are able to feel every other kind of psychic hurt, they seem to lack any pain receptors in the areas of guilt and shame. Moreover, they lack the moral insight required to connect the dots between their bad behavior and the suffering they experience because of it. (In that sense, psychopaths represent not just a challenge to society at large, but also to parents, teachers, philosophers, psychiatrists, judges, theologians, and everyone else concerned with the perfectibility of man.) As to the question of whether Cal Brown suffered during his lifetime, I think it’s fair to say that a psycopath suffers more, in relative terms, than a normal person can even imagine. On the surface, this claim seems preposterous; to the normal person, it’s the psychopath who always seems to be “getting away with” something, always the one living an easy life at the expense of others. How can I call that “suffering”?

—Yet what the psycopath experiences, by dint of not having a conscience, must be something like having a constant and overpowering itch, and not knowing where to scratch. Or maybe it’s like being forced to watch through a two-way mirror as someone you once knew hosts a birthday party to which you (purposely) have not been invited. The only way to get in on the fun is by smashing through the glass, thereby spoiling it for everyone else.

(Hope you enjoy your cake.)

If it is the ability to connect moral actions with moral consequences that makes us human, with all that implies, it is the inability to make that connection that renders some of us human in form only. —With all that implies.

I mourn Holly Washa and all the other victims Cal Brown left in his wake. I’d hate to suffer like he made them suffer.

But I’d hate to be him even more.

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[CarolPB]

well put, DP

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