Home › Forums › Open Discussion › Sixty dollar car tab fees
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April 10, 2014 at 2:45 pm #806753
miwsParticipantI looked over the Voter’s Pamphlet this morning, curious as to what each side was saying (PDF);
http://your.kingcounty.gov/elections/2014/apr-special/pdfs/VPEdition1-EN.pdf
If I were anywhere on the fence on this issue, this one comment in the “Rebuttal of statement in favor” would certainly put me in the vote “Yes” camp, if only because it makes their credibility doubtful:
End bus
subsidies for wealthy riders at the expense of the transit dependent.
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.
.
.
Okay, now that everyone has picked their jaw up off the floor, and (hopefully) rebooted their brain….
Whiskey…..Tang….. Aw hell, I’m just gonna stick with the Whiskey.
I honestly can’t believe they stated that.
Granted, there may be a few folks of wealth that may be Eco-minded, and may use transit, but…..but…. *Head explodes*
The anti’s owe me a dollar plus tax.
I was reading this while sitting on the….ummmmm….library chair, and as I do every morning before hitting the shower, give that fixture and the sink a scrub down.
This morning, I knocked my (rather cool looking) Dollar Store liquid soap dispenser and broke.
I attribute it to the BSOD of my brain after reading that.
Ken, do you repair brains as well as computers?
Mike
April 10, 2014 at 3:28 pm #806754
JoBParticipantIsn’t it time we put some of this in context?
wages… i am assuming the same people who are outraged that there are metro county employees making over 100,000/yr are boycotting University of Washington football.
The highest paid official in our state coaches there. his wage is obscene… and those of his staff aren’t shabby either.
if we are going to put such close scrutiny on the metro system because they are public employees .. shouldn’t we be looking elsewhere as well?
benefits… spend a day on any city’s bus system and you will quickly discover it is a high stress job… which has health consequences.
Your safety on our city’s buses is dependant upon the health and well being of the drivers.
i know it’s not sexy like sports..
but our metro system provides a lot more value for the dollar any day…
April 10, 2014 at 4:03 pm #806755
snaParticipantJoB
The UW coaches salaries are obscene. However, with the messed up ways of college sports, it isn’t financially impactful to the university in a negative way.
The problem with the Metro salaries and benefits is that it is directly impacting the level of service the county can provide. Year after year Metro has let their transit operating costs per hour rise a few points above inflation. Over time, it’s really added up. See the inflation adjusted “cost per transit hour” over the last 13 years.
Adjusted for inflation, Metro’s cost per hour of service has risen 15% since 2000 despite all the cuts they’ve claimed. Th increased cost of fuel maybe explains 3 – 4% of that. The bigger driver is the increase in wages and benefits, despite Metro already paying wages that are among the highest among in the country (the study below is a few years old, but still relevant).
http://seattletransitblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/wage-1.png
I’m not suggesting people should vote no on this proposition, but I am suggesting we shouldn’t give the agency a free pass. Even a yes vote won’t fix this problem. Metro will come back for more again or threaten service cuts in a few years unless they address their cost underlying issues.
April 10, 2014 at 4:21 pm #806756
wakefloodParticipantsna…
1. We live in one of the most expensive regions in the country – how much of that cost of living do you attribute specifically to Metro? And yet, it’s always among the most desirable destinations for tourists and relocation. How much of the desirability factor is about Metro? The point being, you live in a high cost area. High cost areas that are highly desirable are doing something right. And that something usually indicates functional or better amenities like infrastructure, etc. You lost those things and you start a downward spiral. Additionally, it takes a decent salary to make a decent living anywhere but no more so than in high cost regions.
2. Inflation metrics are flawed and don’t show true impacts – especially to the avg. Joe. Here’s just one analysis: “The November 2006 Consumer Price Index Summary, which is published by the BLS, stated that “During the first 11 months of 2006, the CPI-U rose at a 2.2% seasonally adjusted annual rate (SAAR).” Williams’ estimate of CPI for the same period was 5.3%, while Ranson’s reported an 8.2% estimate. Just because McDonald’s still offers a 99 cent burger doesn’t mean that food prices are stagnant.
April 10, 2014 at 5:01 pm #806757
snaParticipantYes, Seattle is expensive, but adjusted for the local cost of living, Metro pays it’s transit drivers and mechanics higher than any other peer west coast city and 28% higher than the average.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByypZl0l70K-OU1jQWZVY1Y2NkU/edit?usp=sharing’
http://trimet.org/pdfs/union/Ex112-Dash-Report-Admitted-Tables.pdf
If you really want to keep a functioning mass transit infrastructure, then you should be concerned about Metro’s cost problems.
April 10, 2014 at 5:18 pm #806758
wakefloodParticipantYou say “problems”, I say “structure”. But we can agree to disagree about that and move on.
April 10, 2014 at 6:37 pm #806759
seaopgalParticipantBottom line is that anyone in West Seattle who relies on Metro will be significantly affected if Prop 1 fails. We will loose routes 21, 22, 37, 57, and 113. Most if not all other routes (including the C-line) will be reduced in frequency, and many will run peak hours only (for example, 21X, 56X, and Vashon routes). Non-peak service to Sodo is virtually eliminated. The bulk of West Seattle will be served by only three all-day routes: C-Line (current route), 50 (route changed to 35th, no service to Junction or Admiral), and 128. In non-peak hours, the C-Line and 120 (Delridge) will be the ONLY routes downtown. Plus fares will go up for everyone … without the proposed break for low-income riders that Prop 1 provides.
Check out the “new” map and summary of service here: http://metro.kingcounty.gov/am/future/PDFs/changes/revisions-WSeattle.pdf
April 11, 2014 at 12:29 am #806760
JayDeeParticipantNow, I will probably vote for Metro despite the flaws noted above because I should ride it more than I should (I have a Passport bus pass that my employer subsidizes but which I pay for too).
–
But for the last 8 weeks we’ve had a shorty bus on the 56X on the 6:30 to dwntwn, and the 4:34 on the way home. Is this a pressure tactic to make us vote for Prop.1? SRO seems pretty unpleasant compared to the articulateds that still had standees. Seems like it to me. Others may have noticed this as well. Perhaps Metrognome can rebut this suspicion.
April 11, 2014 at 2:40 am #806761
JoBParticipantas i read these posts i began to think that metro was some subversive organization that was out to fleece Seattle consumers instead of a public agency that provides public transportation at an almost affordable price…
metroman strikes again.
April 11, 2014 at 6:12 am #806762
trickycooljParticipantWould this be more on the $40 “RTA Tax” that we can deduct from our federal tax returns? Ever since moving to King county I’ve been able to claim that $40 fee as a deduction on my federal income taxes, however when I fill out my mom’s she doesn’t have that fee in Thurston County. So if it is another $60 deduction from fed taxes then isn’t it a wash?
Also, totally wish I could register my car at my moms house.
April 11, 2014 at 4:25 pm #806763
skeeterParticipantOnly taxes based on the value of the vehicle are tax deductible. So the RTA Tax which is a fixed fee would not be tax deductible.
Even if tax deductible it would definitely not be a wash. The value of a tax deduction is equal to your marginal tax rate. Most middle-class families are in the 15% or 25% marginal tax rate. So a tax deduction of $100 yields a tax savings of $15 or $25. For the wealthiest Americans, a tax deduction of $100 results in tax savings of $39.60.
Tax deductions and tax credits are totally different. A tax credit (as opposed to a tax deduction) such as the child tax credit of $1000 is worth a full $1000.
April 11, 2014 at 5:12 pm #806764
elikapekaParticipantGood discussion – it’s helped me make up my mind to vote yes, even though I too have reservations about Metro’s cost structure. You couldn’t pay me enough to drive a bus, so I really have no issues with their compensation, but like any institution, public or private, the administrative and management staffs often end up being very inefficient and costly, so that’s where I would keep my eye on the money.
April 11, 2014 at 6:20 pm #806765
trickycooljParticipantAccording to turbo tax our regional transit fees on the car tabs are deductible along with the sales tax since we don’t get the bonus of deducting our non existant state income tax.
April 11, 2014 at 8:12 pm #806766
skeeterParticipantI think the sales tax deduction ended Dec 31, 2013. It was temporary and had been extended a couple times. Our senators generally fight for it because of Washington’s tax structure.
April 11, 2014 at 8:25 pm #806767
Alki WarriorParticipantPeople need to ride busses. The poor can’t afford to own a car, so I’m willing to even pay $100 car tab fees if they asked me. No biggie! I feel lucky I don’t have to use the bus. I’m just helping out.
April 12, 2014 at 3:31 pm #806768
muchloveParticipantSuppose I could be considered “the poor” I am low income, own a car and am voting NO. We struggle enough to try to make it here and can’t afford all these constant increases.
Not every “low income” person takes the bus and we’re trying just as hard to make it. For those who wish to complain that we don’t utilize the bus system – try having severe anxiety (including social anxiety) and IBS – let’s see how many times you take the bus.
Just a different view and why I’m voting NO.
April 12, 2014 at 4:07 pm #806769
maplesyrupParticipantsna does what you’re saying in post 28 take the level of service into account? I’m asking because the region has grown and the number of transit users has grown as well. Are there the same number of routes and vehicles in operation as in 2000?
April 13, 2014 at 2:35 pm #806770
JoBParticipanti am sorry.. but the advertised cost effectiveness propaganda led voters here to ditch the “two for” cut and cover tunnel along the waterfront and instead we got Bertha and the Sea Wall.
not the future we were looking for.
the biggest question here is what is the future we are looking for?
do you really want increased congestion on the West Seattle Bridge????
because it doesn’t take rocket science to figure out that voting no on this one will create increased congestion on the West Seattle Bridge
standing on your “principals” and demanding better on this one will mean standing on your horn down the road.
it’s your choice… but some things really are worth paying for.
Isn’t your time and our quality of life one of them?
April 13, 2014 at 6:04 pm #806771
waynsterParticipantI have always said Seattle and king co. lost out years ago when they had a chance to build a a first class subway/mass transit system and everyone including our elected officials screamed no no cars and buses we need more freeways to move the masses……now you pay for what a bus system that doesn’t run 24/7 like other major city’s a light-rail that goes were oh soon from the UW to the airport…..so now we have to pay for a bus system that still is behind the times for a city or county of this size…. and still more cars… its not money they need its called fixing a crappy system so now we pay for the same old service. Why not we are use to it or are we…..
April 13, 2014 at 8:03 pm #806772
miwsParticipant1968 Forward Thrust:
http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&file_id=2168
Maddeningly, the Rapid Transit, and a few other community-centric issues would have passed if not for the inane Super Majority requirement…
Mike
April 14, 2014 at 6:44 am #806773
Militant ModerateMemberI was on the fence, but once I saw how much it would tick of Republicans and Tea Partiers, I had to vote yes.
April 14, 2014 at 1:45 pm #806774
JoBParticipantas good a reason as any :)
especially since they are the ones who pulled the strings that made this vote necessary
April 14, 2014 at 4:07 pm #806775
wakefloodParticipantWonder why I saw literally HUNDREDS of VOTE NO on #1 signs on every major intersection of Mercer Island on the weekend??? Could it be our very own 1% are looking forward to sharing the road with lots more Single Occupancy Vehicles if #1 fails? Hmm… Or maybe the similarly abundant “No I-90 Tolls” signs are another sign of enlightened market economics applied to transportation infrastructure?
Either way, those folks obviously have the greater good in mind when they ponder these important questions of how to make a society function.
That’s really what I appreciate most about the Tea Party and the GOP in general. Really well thought out policy positions.
In fact, hey, let’s turn our whole gov’t over these deep-thinkers. These Masters of Nuance. These Emperors of Democracy.
April 14, 2014 at 4:21 pm #806776
skeeterParticipantwakeflood, were you looking at homes on Mercer Island again this weekend? <wink>
April 14, 2014 at 4:53 pm #806777
wakefloodParticipantBusted. <wink>
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