Home › Forums › Open Discussion › Recession part 2 on its way..
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August 4, 2011 at 4:36 pm #600009
JiggersMemberNew fears are now indicating that we are heading into another recession right now. The funny thing is that I never thought we were out of the 2008 recession.
August 4, 2011 at 5:06 pm #731235
kootchmanMemberMaybe it’s time to pretend it’s all gone. I have seen it worse… but that was long before tuition payments, mortgages, car payments, etc… it actually was worse in 80-82… but this one..this one seems to drag on and on and on…. I don’t see an “emerging” new thing like the IT revolution on the horizon… I fear you are right.
August 4, 2011 at 6:08 pm #731236
365StairsParticipantECON 101…Companies that produce things (big or small) have little demand right now. No ask for widgets…no need for people to box & ship the widgets.
Share holders are demanding profits increased. Public Companies must cut staff with low demand to make bottom line projections for continued shareholder investment and exec bonuses.
Small businesses supporting the once large company with cheap supplies to make widgets (contracted or not) are hit hardest because they have no capital backup and must cut staff too.
Small Business Expenses are too high to legitmize needed margins for sustainability.
Big business has greater resources & power to weather this.
Consumer confidence is poor. No money in the personal coffers to spare – essentials only please and thank you.
No more “Tickle Me Elmo” crazes to spur mad dashes to the big widget stores.
If you have it…keep it…hide it…and don’t tell anyone…
Companies that provide services only (one time or re-curring) are seeing increases.
It will take a very long time to get out of this. Sooner if companies that once expected double digit profits can figure out how to sustain themselves on less – with reduced expenses to pass on to consumers – for the same quality…
Man…I feel low now.
August 4, 2011 at 6:22 pm #731237
365StairsParticipantOh…bars and casinos are winning hearts, minds, livers, and savings too…
August 4, 2011 at 6:36 pm #731238
shed22ParticipantJiggers . . . I’m with you – the recession never ended. Just keeps getting worse and worse.
August 5, 2011 at 3:13 pm #731239
kootchmanMemberApple is sitting on more cash than the US Treasury. Stockholder won’t pressure them to bring it home. Because those profits earned overseas would be instantly “deflated” in value by one third …corporate income taxes. If we would stop be so stupid… and let US Companies bring those earnings home, without double taxing them.. stockholders would demand their dividends…personal income, personal income taxes. But noooo… all the Democrats can see is another Trillion dollars to raid and plunder for more government expense, more government employee pay raises, pension rescures etc. There is no demand because no one has any confidence in the future economy under this confiscatory regime. If you had 60 billion… would you bring it home knowing the IRS wants a third.. ?remember .. you already paid taxes on it where you sold it. This government is so determined to force private enterprise into submission that the agencies are writing regulations so fast, the government printing office has a 13 month backlog! Would you want to start-up in this environment? Demand? That is what entrepreneurs do… There was zero demand for PC’s.. until two geeks in a garage got some investment capital… stop being so business hostile
August 5, 2011 at 3:51 pm #731240
TDeParticipantFear is what tanks markets quicker than anything and fear can spread like wildfire. Stand against fear and we might be able to weather this latest storm. Let it take hold and we’ll become exactly what we fear most. There is a shred of hope here from a U.S. News and World Report writer:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44033422/ns/business-eye_on_the_economy/
August 5, 2011 at 11:48 pm #731241
JiggersMemberThe U.S. government went after the online poker sites that were generating big big dollars inside the U.S. How pathetic. The U.S. government banned U.S. players from using real money online to play with. Now those players aren’t going to get to withdraw any of their funds…LOL
August 6, 2011 at 12:22 am #731242
HuindekmiParticipantWell, since the Republicans in congress have been trying very hard over the past few years to ensure that the recovery stalls… all for political gain… we shouldn’t be too surprised.
August 6, 2011 at 12:28 am #731243
SmittyParticipant“Well, since the Republicans in congress have been trying very hard over the past few years to ensure that the recovery stalls… all for political gain… we shouldn’t be too surprised.”
At least it’s not still Bush’s fault…..
I love accountability.
August 6, 2011 at 1:42 am #731244
JiggersMemberWho cares about Apple and big corporations.
August 6, 2011 at 3:38 am #731245
JoBParticipantkootch..
broken record..
tell me how that would actually translate into revenue for the good old U S of A and i’ll listen.
until then…
that 30% looks a lot better than nothing to me
August 6, 2011 at 6:27 pm #731246
JanSParticipantsome fallout from this recession :(
August 6, 2011 at 9:15 pm #731247
kootchmanMemberJoB .. again? OK.. let’s start with just ONE benefit. Apple can hoard it’s money because…the stockholders don’t want it back. IF apple bought it back..and it was taxed..the asset (unrepatriated earnings/profits) would decrease in value by taxation. The stockholder at this point is content to let it grow in value by overseas sales of Apple products. IF you taxed it again …say the corporate 35%.. ( I know ,, effective vs real..etc.. suspend that for the moment) the stockholders wealth would vaporize 1/3 in value. THEN he would get a dividend..with 1/3 less cash to dispense. Now give him his dividend from corporate taxed foreign earned income..and if he is a top tier earner…he pays again…personal income tax..dividend income. That 68 billion was just taxed TWICE…AND TAXED overseas…Just remember Apple’s 68 billion is out of reach…NA for the IRS as it now stands.
Now remove the corporate tax. Apple brings home the full 68 billion…undiluted by corporate tax. NOW the stock holder wants his dividend income… he DEMANDS dividends from Apple…after all…that is why he invested in Apple in the first place. Apple has no excuse to hoard it all overseas.. NOW we get tax revenues… dividend income taxes on the top tier earners…just the folks you have in your gunsights. AND what isn’t taken in taxes becomes…. DISPOSABLE income.. it buys cars, makes charitable contributions, takes vacations, builds swimming pools, vacation homes, remodels kitchens, gets landscaping contracts… OR gets reinvested again, in something new with growth potential..providing new ideas and new businesses with venture capital… That joB is how you get the revenue..dividend income and of course, employment rises, adding more personal income tax. How does that not make sense?
August 6, 2011 at 9:20 pm #731248
kootchmanMemberWE are keeping taxable income offshore…not the “greedy” multinational who is doing their job creating the greatest wealth possible for their owners.. the stockholders. They are NOT going to devalue that wealth with an import tax…and heir stockholders don’t want them to.
August 6, 2011 at 9:21 pm #731249
kootchmanMemberThe other way isn’t working… we know that. That is the most immediate benefit… there are more…
August 7, 2011 at 1:31 am #731250
JoBParticipantkootch…
no more psychobubble…
i asked about revenue for the United States and you gave me stockholders?
Are you familiar with John Q Public and the government he created for the people by the people?
what is good for Wall Street is clearly not good for America and they have proved it by crashing the real economy.. goods and services.. time and time again.
step away from the tube
contemplate your toes
take a walk
bbq some brisket
and then ask yourself again why the good of wall street trumps the good of America?
only someone intent on destroying the democracy we have enjoyed and replacing it with some sort of corporate controlled dog and pony show would think so.
August 7, 2011 at 5:31 pm #731251
redblackParticipantwhat is good for Wall Street is clearly not good for America and they have proved it by crashing the real economy.
and then demanding that the very government with its tax system that they so abhor fork over a trillion dollars in red ink to save them when they get themselves in a jam by gambling with our pensions and mortgages.
August 7, 2011 at 5:37 pm #731252
kootchmanMemberI gave you revenue.. many times. It’s not hard. Dividend income is TAXABLE INCOME…. THAT GOES TO THE FED GOVERNMENT… YOU HAVE TO BRING THE MONEY HOME TO PAY THE DIVIDEND.
August 7, 2011 at 5:42 pm #731253
kootchmanMemberThat ain’t psycho babble… and it fits perfectly for most here…dividend income goes to the top ten per cent … they get the tax bill so the 47% who pay no taxes remain untouched.
August 7, 2011 at 5:47 pm #731254
redblackParticipantcircular logic.
“we won’t bring the taxable income home until you lower our taxes.”
btw, long-term capital gains are taxed at less than half the rate of ordinary income. so where are the investments?
August 7, 2011 at 6:45 pm #731255
kootchmanMemberoh man… capital gains…is the amount you pay after you SELL an asset..the difference between what ya paid for it and what ya sold it for. If you bought a stock for 10 and sold it for 15… you have a taxable capital gain of 5… right you are, generally..to moderate speculative trading..and to encourage companies to hold a “long term view”.. the rate is lower….
Dividend income is NOT capital gains. Dividend income is income…cause you still hold the stock. You didn’t sell it. Dividend income is income..period… it is not a gain..and gets taxed as per your particular tax bracket. Dividend income is the gift that keeps on giving… as long as the company is profitable.
August 7, 2011 at 6:52 pm #731256
kootchmanMember. I borrow 100 bucks from you for a business opportunity in Canada. I make 10,000 grand for you. All the taxes were paid in Canada..sales, business, etc. 10 grand sitting in a Canadian bank… all yours. BUT… if I send you that 10 grand… the federal government will take 1/3… right off the top.. so you tell me keep it up there… I don’t need it that bad. Now suppose, the federal government doesn’t take one third…of your money. I bring it back to a good old USA bank. Now… I pay you the full 10 grand.
I owe no taxes….. BUT YOU DO…. income taxes. on the full 10 grand. If you are well heeled kinda dude.. you pay the top tax rate…if are in the lower rate say.. 18%…that’s what ya pay. The rich pay more, the less rich pay less. How is that circular man?
August 7, 2011 at 7:10 pm #731257
MBarrettMillerMemberApple etc. are not the answser. We are the answer! How do we want to live and how do we want to define what form of government we live with/under.
We need to raise revenues.
We need to grow up and quit paying into companies that do not have our best interests at heart. We need to be openly vocal, organized and willing to say the truth to people who need to hear it-
I have lived in totalitarian countries-you probably don’t want to live like that-
Go to community meetings. See your elected officials and remind them they work for you in your best diplomatic fashion.
Get involved…..
We deserve better!!
August 7, 2011 at 7:50 pm #731258
kootchmanMemberMBM… Apple has done great things. I think it is in OUR best interest to bring a trillion dollars home. Pay dividends that pay income tax…drop a trillion in cash deposits so small business owners have access to capital again. We are being reduced to competing beggars for government largesse… and the price they exacting is making us a humble, humiliated, intimidated, people.
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