rant south park bridge

[hammerhead]

I hope is ok to post this in the wsb. (being that is south park) So the bridge is going to be shut down in may. I guess no one has ANY money to pay for a new one. so now south park is going to go out of business and everyone is going to have to drive further which will cost more money and not very good on the environment. so not only am i going to loose hwy 99 in a few years, now the south park bridge in may with no light at the end of the tunnel for it to be rebuilt.

also i am sure if was the fremont bridge or the university bridge were in bad shape there would be no question about them being rebuilt.

very upset:( urgh

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[JoB]

i am still unsure why the supporting column that is disintegrating can’t be sleeved for a short term fix…

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[metrognome]

JoB — I’m not sure how adding tattoes to the column would help … oh, you didn’t mean that kind of ‘sleeved’.

The column is too deteriorated (it is easier to sleeve land-based columns for specific movement caused by quakes than to use a sleeve on a troubled bridge over water for on-going support.)

The direct link is too long, so go to http://your.kingcounty.gov/kcdot/roads/cip/ProjectDetail.aspx?CIPID=300197, click on ‘documents’ in the Comm. Relations box and then on ‘Analysis of Risk and Remaining Life…’ under ‘Other Documents’ if you want the boring details.

hammerhead — you are probably right about projects being somewhat dependent on pressure brought to bear by affected communities, given that technical needs are the same (case in point — 520 replacement and the highest number of lawyers per square inch living in Montlake.)

However, just because a project like the SP bridge doesn’t happen in a ‘poorer’ part of town doesn’t mean that that is the reason However, America has historically underfunded basic infrastructure repair and as a result, we are billions and billions of dollars behind and more and more critical situations like this are happening (http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/report-cards); as a culture, ‘we’ have decided it is more important to buy the latest big screen TV and let a bridge or sewer system collapse and wreak havoc and then scream at the gubmint for not acting sooner and then go write Tim Eyman a check for his latest initiative than it is to invest in our future.

As far as the viaduct, if the deep bore tunnel is constructed, you will not lose 99 as they will be able to do most if not all of that project while the viaduct is still in use (assuming the big one doesn’t hit.) That is one reason the deep bore was chosen — meaning that the needs of South Park were in fact given high priority.

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[hammerhead]

I get it we don’t have the money to replace it. HWY 99 if I am not mistaken is being shut down in 2012 per orders by the governor. I don’t think the tunnel will be finished then. right? Now I do see them working down there on 1st ave S to do what ever it is they are doing. I have many friends and husband who work in south park they ALL say it will destroy south park if that bridge is not rebuilt.

How does the tunnel help south park? does it go that far, I looked at some of the data and it doesn’t go near south park.

I truly trying to do my best to stay informed, I can’t make it to the meetings. SO I appreciate your information.

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[metrognome]

hammerhead — I guess I’m confused; in your first post, you said, “so not only am i going to loose hwy 99 in a few years…” A lot of the traffic on 99 is to or from or through South Park and other southwest neighborhoods, so I assumed that ‘losing the tunnel’ meant you thought the viaduct closure would negatively affect people in South Park. I know that folks in Ballard, which is nowhere the viaduct, are extremely concerned about this issue. Why — because Ballard commercial and industrial businesses, not to mention residents, can most easily reach Ballard from south of downtown by taking the viaduct to Elliott; the alternative by surface streets or I-5 would be extremely costly and time-consuming. I assume the same is true for South Park and other south end neighborhoods that are not near the actual viaduct. The issues are freight and passenger travel patterns, direct and indirect business and personal costs incurred by longer travel times, etc. Due to the geologic features in this region, you rarely can travel in a direct line between point A and Point B; if the existing route that your business and passenger travel needs depend on goes away, the alternate route is not 30 seconds away on the next street on the grid pattern; it is over the river and through the woods.

Here is some info on current viaduct traffic volumes from the link below; if you do some browsing, you can probably find more detailed info on traffic origins and destinations:

“The current viaduct carries approx. 110,000 vehicles per day just south of the mid-town ramps. Of this amount, approx. 17,000 vehicles enter or exit downtown at Columbia and Seneca streets, and 33,000 exit or enter at Elliott and Western avenues toward Belltown, Uptown, and neighborhoods along the 15th Avenue and Elliott Avenue corridor. The remaining 60,000 vehicles continue north through the Battery Street Tunnel, either exiting in the South Lake Union/Queen Anne area or continuing north across the Ship Canal.”

I retired a year ago, so my info on the viaduct remaining open may be wrong. Here’s the link to the WSDOT viaduct website: http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/Viaduct/

In your second post, you said, ‘it will destroy south park if that bridge is not replaced.’ I assume ‘that bridge’ means the South Park bridge. I have no doubt that the closure, if it happens, will impact residents and business at that some may move or close. The reality is that, for the most part, people adjust — they commute at a different time of day, they find a new route, businesses get creative with sales, etc. I also have no doubt that the more pressure South Parkers can apply and the more specific they can be about potential costs of the closure, the more likely that something will be done. Or not. The reality is that the backlog of deferred maintenance is high and the pot of money is small. And would be significantly smaller if not for stimulus money being used to leverage other funds.

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[BBGuest]

South Park is off the beaten path for most but I prefer the new Seattle Public Library there. It is wonderful to see the eclectic gathering of people and diversity at the library. Generally I think of South Park as representative of the working poor and rapidly dwindling lower middle class. A neighborhood destined to be forgotten because the effort to survive from day to day, week to week, does not leave time to rally or be creative.

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[WSB]

Hammerhead, we’ve been covering the South Park Bridge situation more extensively lately than anyone – are you reading the news section of the site? I’ve been the only reporter at several major meetings lately and also asked Mayor McGinn about city plans at his monthly media “brownbag” yesterday, superseded by some developments today.

For South Park, you can keep track here:

https://westseattleblog.com/blog/category/south-park

You’ll see all the stories we’ve done recently. Also, are you on the Yahoo! list for South Park? I joined when I jumped into this coverage a few weeks ago and am quite impressed. Both of our state’s US senators are coming to South Park this Sunday afternoon and some peaceful demonstrating is being suggested, btw. We’ll be there to cover whatever happens (the event is supposedly to celebrate the health-care vote – it’s happening at the IAM hall).

Also, if you want to keep up with the latest news on The Viaduct, we are often the only reporter at the key South Portal Working Group meetings on that issue too – latest one, just a couple days ago. No, nothing is closing in 2012 – the Viaduct, unless something drastic happens, will be kept up until the tunnel (assuming that isn’t halted) is done, theoretically 2016.

All our stories on The Viaduct – this is original coverage, done with a West Seattle/south end perspective – are here:

https://westseattleblog.com/blog/category/alaskan-way-viaduct

This includes extensive information on what exactly is being built where, who’s being detoured where, etc. over the next few years. 1st Avenue South and vicinity included.

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[WSB]

Oh also, I just re-read the first post.

The date for the bridge to be shut down, unless something dramatic happens (like, the consultant who is doing one last analysis, somehow discovers it’s safe to leave in operation, which nobody seems to expect) – is June 30th. 7 pm.

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[metrognome]

WSB– I want to second your comments about the quality and comprehensiveness of your coverage of these kinds of issues. As you can probably tell from my screen name, I worked for Metro (both before and after the county merger). Rant Alert: One of my biggest frustrations with ‘citizens’ is that the vast majority of folks have no idea of the scope of the issues our elected officials and govt. employees deal with. When something ‘bad’ happens, the tendency is to blame the government and complain about taxes; the reality is that we are facing HUGE infrastructure issues in part because citizens don’t want to pay for maintenance until there is a crisis. Does anyone but policy wonks watch council meetings on local gov’t channels? Go to budget hearings? etc.

The detailed coverage WSB provides makes all that available in one place so people can understand the broader picture and participate in the process. Even if you don’t agree with the outcome, you have a bigger stake in your community as a result of your participation.

And, no, I received no compensation from WSB for this post…

I firmly believe citizens are as much to blame for our problems as the elected officials, if not more. When I-695 was on the ballot, an unprecedented number of people voted for only that and for nothing else on the ballot … is that really good citizenship? Ironically, the year before, voters across the state overwhelmingly approved a referendum (R-49, I think) to repair roadways — I-695 gutted the funding for that referendum. How do elected officials interpret voter intent with such mixed signals? If we don’t educate ourselves and participate, we deserve the government we get (WE the people…) ok, rant over.

Hammerhead, if you are interested in infractructure issues in general, I just saw an excellent piece on this on History Int’l Channel that you can probably find when it re-airs or on-line. When you see the video, you can’t escape being staggered by the scope of the problem.

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[KBear]

“The column is too deteriorated (it is easier to sleeve land-based columns for specific movement caused by quakes than to use a sleeve on a troubled bridge over water…”

Hey, maybe we could get a couple of guys to write a song about it and hold a benefit concert…

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[metrognome]

KBear — at last!! someone who recognizes my truly bad puns (ok, it wasn’t really a pun, but…)

Hammerhead — after I posted my rant in #9, I realized I should have been clear that it wasn’t directed at you; in fact, I applaud you for being out here looking for answers.

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