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February 19, 2011 at 10:57 am #598005
HMC RichParticipantMany of you took potshots at the Tea Party gatherings. Now the public union supporters are coming out in droves in Wisconsin? Is protesting patriotic again since the people protesting are pro union (and mainly vote Democrat)?
I remember great gnashing of teeth when “the Republican machine” was supporting the tea party. Seems both sides support their own.
From Politico: http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0211/DNC_playing_role_in_Wisconsin_protests.html?showall
I see the “civility” issue didn’t last long either. From Conservative CNS NEWS http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/wis-democratic-party-condemns-hate-fille
And why are people choosing to go to people’s homes now to protest? http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/02/group-targets-speaker-boehner-s-small-h-house
I guess turning your back on the Secretary of State is a violent form of protest: http://www.skyvalleychronicle.com/BREAKING-NEWS/VETERAN-S-GROUP-DEMANDS-APOLOGY-FROM-SEC-OF-STATE-CLINTON-BR-Claims-vet-was-manhandled-for-silent-protest-596038
I lived in Wisconsin and loved it. As you may also know, I have no love for Public Employee Unions but I do believe taking away the collective bargaining option is harsh. I do have some love for the private unions.
I also believe the Wisconsin House Democrats who left the state are cowards. They need to work with the process and come back and fight another day. During the last two years, the Republicans
Federally took their votes and lost most of the time. Running away to another state from the process is wrong. And to Illinois!!!
Our state won’t have that problem because the Gov is a Democrat and the houses are still Dem controlled. But other states to varying degrees will be attempting austerity programs. We will see what happens, won’t we.
February 19, 2011 at 2:08 pm #717880
ZenguyParticipantHonestly, the Tea Party is just the same old Republican retoric in a new party dress. Try actually listening to the populis and trying to cater to the masses, instead of fooling them.
February 19, 2011 at 2:47 pm #717881
TDeParticipantUm… have to disagree with you on the “cowards” thing. There appears to be no “working through the process” in Wisconsin. If the Dems stayed, the vote would have proceeded and the bill decided quickly by the Republican majority, end of story… except then it likely would be tied up in the courts for months and years to come at great cost. Wisconsin law says that a vote can proceed if just one member of the minority party in the legislature is in residence. There was no slowing down of the process to debate the pros and cons of the bill. From what I understand, the bill was being rammed through for a vote with little discussion, so they walked out. I think it actually took more guts to walk while listening to the taunts of “cowards” than to stay and whine about how there was nothing they could do to prevent passage by the Republican majority. And they could have run away to a coastal state with more sunshine and weather friendly golf courses, which would have really enraged Republicans in Wisconsin, but they merely opted for a close state… OK it was the state Obama came from and that’s teeth gnashing for some, but at least they weren’t looking for a sunny vacation.
February 19, 2011 at 5:19 pm #717882
DPMemberChivalry is not dead, and neither is civility.
I read the story you linked to, Rich, and what I took from it is that responsible Wisconsin Dems are distancing themselves from the hate speech espoused by a few people in the ranks (who might be provocateurs anyway.)
The article leads in with this:
Democratic Party of Wisconsin Chairman Mike Tate is condemning signs carried by pro-labor protesters that compare Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker to Hitler, Benito Mussolini and Hosni Mubarak and showed the governor with a cross-hairs rifle sight over his face.
February 19, 2011 at 5:51 pm #717883
dobroParticipant“…taking away the collective bargaining option is harsh.”
Harsh?! It’s just the destruction of the thing for which a union exists! In other words, union busting. Yeah, I’d say its pretty harsh. But its part of the Republiscum plan going on in all the states that elected Repub governors. coincidence? I think not.
Note also that the protesters are local Wisconsonites, unlike the “tea party” groups that are being bussed in today and paid by right wing front organizations.
February 19, 2011 at 5:53 pm #717884
redblackParticipanti agree with DP. the pro-labor organizers at these rallies need to call out anyone who implies violence will result from these protests and ask them to get rid of those signs – or ask them to leave the premises.
we don’t need to stoop to the level of the anti-government crowd.
February 19, 2011 at 5:56 pm #717885
DPMemberdobro, good points.
I hope you’re not calling my friend Rich “scum.”
He might be a Republican, but scum he ain’t.
–David
February 19, 2011 at 5:57 pm #717886
dobroParticipantPS- what the legislators are doing is not only not cowardly, its heroic. It’s providing the time for public energy to come together and assert itself. If they had allowed the bill to pass quickly it would have stifled the enthusiasm of the people to protest it, exactly what the dictatorial gov had hoped for.
They can’t stay away forever and the bill may well still be passed over their objections but now its been exposed for the travesty that it is and people are seeing the true face of their gov. It was covered with many layers of right wing Koch Bros. money during the election.
February 19, 2011 at 6:31 pm #717887
redblackParticipantyeah, dobro, and the koch brothers have many times more money than the labor unions.
amazing. it’s like the “red scare” of the ’20’s all over again.
February 19, 2011 at 7:21 pm #717888
dobroParticipantYes, since right wing interests have managed to erase the history of the labor movement from school curriculum we seem to be doomed to repeat the struggle for workers rights. Just shows you that greed never sleeps.
February 19, 2011 at 8:29 pm #717889
dobroParticipantHere’s something kinda funny- a teabagger sign from the Koch Bros rally in Madison says “Sorry, we’re late Scott. We work for a living.”
Which means they had to come on Saturday because its a day off from work. Why do they get a weekend off from work? Unions, you morons! How can people be that stupid?
February 21, 2011 at 1:55 am #717890
JoBParticipantdobro…
people get that stupid when they don’t think it through.
they think employers pay them well, give them time off and benefits because they appreciate them.
the truth is that American wages have been stagnant since the 70s when union busting became the national republican pastime…
however… worker productivity is at an all time high
February 23, 2011 at 4:44 am #717891
metrognomeParticipantnot surprisingly, the uber-conservative billionaire Koch brothers are the funding source behind the Wisconsin governator’s attempt to kill the public employees’ unions. Not surprising as they also provide a huge amount of funding for the allegedly grass-roots, citizen-driven Tea Party.
February 23, 2011 at 5:34 am #717892
JanSParticipanthmmm….and then there’s this…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7e4bj5rrd8&feature=player_embedded
February 23, 2011 at 4:13 pm #717893
redblackParticipantsneaky: the wisconsin legislation in question, requested by walker himself, also allows wisconsin’s power supply to be privatized.
i don’t hear anyone in the media talking about that.
February 23, 2011 at 5:35 pm #717894
JoBParticipantthey should.
this is an all out assault on the working middle class…
creating a third world labor market here is the Koch’s answer to keeping jobs at home
February 23, 2011 at 6:34 pm #717895
WSMomParticipanthttp://www.buffalobeast.com/?p=5045
“He’s just hard-lined—will not talk, will not communicate, will not return phone calls.”
-Wisconsin state Sen. Tim Carpenter (D) on Gov. Walker
Carpenter’s quote made me wonder: who could get through to Gov. Walker? Well, what do we know about Walker and his proposed union-busting, no-bid budget? The obvious candidate was David Koch.”
Gov. Walker got punked by a alternative newspaper editor pretending to be David Koch.
February 23, 2011 at 7:31 pm #717896
JoBParticipantWSMom..
i can’t think of any person more deserving of being punked this way :)
I wonder when people will figure out that there is a difference between a political movement and demonstrations funded by David Koch
and a spontaneous gathering by people who have to pay their own way to be there and take time off work to do so simply because they believe in justice.
February 23, 2011 at 7:51 pm #717897
sydneyMember@ HMC Rich: The Tea Party is an astroturf movement with billionaire, exteme-rightwing nutjobs (the sons of one of the founders of the JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY, for heaven’s sake!!!) funding AND founding it. They started it from the ground, zero, zilch, nothing. They fly/bus people as needed all over the country. Their goal: the destruction of the middle class through the undoing of the New Deal. Can you dispute this? And please, before you answer, think about what their success would eventuate for YOU.
The Wisconsin protests are absolutely critical to the survival of the middle class in the entire USA, if not the world. We’re in the struggle of a lifetime, and if we lose, our children will be serfs…and you and I will eat catfood.
Personally, I’m horrified whenever anyone defends the Tea Party in general. Now understand this: the poor deluded people in the Tea Party have grievances which are identical to mine, it’s just that they don’t know the causes of the problems they’re complaining about. They have drunk the Koolaid that Fox News sets out for them and now believe the government–their protector and their own representation–is against them. The problem is that for the last ten, eleven years, ALL the major news stations have pushed ‘patriotism’ over anti-war sentiment, beating less imperialistic forces back and drowning out progressive voices. So, the people who would benefit most from voting ‘progressive’ are conned into believing that somehow progressives are anti-American and poor people are causing the country to go broke.
Hey, you tend to go broke when your job goes away, you can’t find another; your medical costs go sky-high because we’re not using a single-payer system; and they take your Social Security away??
And somehow, anti-communism morphed first into anti-islam, now anything vaguely socialized is demonized by the right, to the point where everything we got from the labor movement is rapidly being stolen from our sleeping fingers. Remember the 40 hour workweek? Gone. The right to negotiate pay and benefits through unions is also under attack, and since unions are the single largest supporter of Democrats, the rightwing is taking even our choice of representation.
Does anyone remember Phil Donahue and how his show was cancelled despite its high ratings? That was the rightwing controlling the ‘liberal’ media. All you had to say was ‘AntiAmerican!’ and poof! there go the few progressive voices, silenced from mainstream TV.
Somehow people forgot WalMart used to brag about “made in USA”, and made to believe buying cheap would help them get that American dream.
Welcome to my handbasket!
February 23, 2011 at 8:49 pm #717898
SmittyParticipantThese “fleebaggers” need to return home and do their jobs.
For all the ranting and raving against the filibuster from the Left over the last two years, this is – in all reality – the ultimate filibuster. But because they agree with it, it’s all good!
It’s only a matter of time when the R’s do the same thing – and oh the outrage we will hear!
February 23, 2011 at 8:57 pm #717899
DPMemberFrom #19 above:
Now understand this: the poor deluded people in the Tea Party have grievances which are identical to mine, it’s just that they don’t know the causes of the problems they’re complaining about.
That’s a good analysis, sydney. But tell me, what are you doing about the problem, other than (presumably) trying to vote progressive every four years or so?
–David
February 23, 2011 at 10:19 pm #717900
JoBParticipantSmitty…
this is the ultimate fillibuster?
that’s how you see this?
LOL.. if it is..
at least these people had to show up and stay there to be noticed.
unlike the republican lawmakers who simply notified their party… and went home.
oh.. and these are citizens
not elected representatives or senators
if you are interested in honest comparisons
perhaps you should look to the recent events in Egypt instead
this is democracy in action.
February 23, 2011 at 10:21 pm #717901
JoBParticipantDP…
shame on you for calling syndey out like that.
anyone who makes the effort to become educated and share that education with others is doing something substantive.
February 23, 2011 at 10:32 pm #717902
JanSParticipantSo much goes through my head with all of this. First….remember last November, when “the people spoke”? The Tea Party candidates who won, and the Repubs kept saying that they had to listen to what the people wanted. Now, the people want them to drop this attack on collective bargaining…and they could give a damn. The unions already agreed to the monetary cuts…and the gov’t. said no. Listening to the people only is important when it suits their agenda?
And..if gov’t. is so bad, so intrusive, why the hell are these people even in it..? I think about that one a lot They want gov’t. out of people’s lives, yet have no problem inserting themselves right in the middle..and ruining a lot of lives with their involvement. That’s just a coupe of things going through my head…there’s plenty more…just not putting it here…
February 23, 2011 at 10:42 pm #717903
SmittyParticipantJoB,
I was talking about the Wisconsin Democrats whe fled (fleebaggers, get it?) to Illinois.
This is the ultimate filibuster. Can’t wait for R’s to try it. Katie will be outraged!
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