Metro Bus Transfer Time ? Is it 2 hours?

[swimcat]

I always thought the transfer was supposed to be used just if you were going to transfer to another bus to get to your destination, not to be used as a round trip ticket.

That being said, I’d be trying to squeeze my errand into that time frame so I wouldn’t have to pay on the way back too :) One time on the bus, I saw a teenager with a wad of different colored transfers for all different times I’m guessing, just so she wouldn’t have to pay for fare- ever. I was impressed with the creativity, even if she was clearly cheating the system.

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[Jiggers]

The Orca card I understand is only going to be worth it to those who use the bus everyday to get to work and back. Sound Transit is not going to honor bus tickets, Metro transfers and monthly passes after the new year. King County is fleecing your pennies to maximize their profits. On top of all that, there will be another increase in fare as well for riders. Maybe it’s time for me to get a car again and create more traffic on the roadways.

I also found out that S.T. only gives you an hour and a half and Metro gives you 2-hours transfer time.

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[CMP]

I found this info buried on Metro’s website about transfers. It looks like they’re issuing the right amount of time but two hours would be nice, given how late the buses run sometimes!

“Transfers are valid on any Metro bus or the Waterfront Streetcar for about one hour after they are issued. Transfers received on off-peak trips may be used on peak-hour trips by paying the balance of the peak fare. Metro transfers are valid for base fare on Sound Transit and other local transit systems.”

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[Ken]

Since the school district started fleecing Metro (and everyone else who tries to ride the bus at school beginning and end times), raising fares and tightening of transfers has been inevitable.

Transfers are not round trip tickets. No amount of justification is going to make them into one.

Pay both ways or buy a pass. Or move to the free zone :) Since the system is subsidized, the rest of us are paying your way via taxes.

Fares only pay a fraction of the op cost of any transit system in north America as far as I know.

And King County is subsidized more than most.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio

Of course the cost of gasoline as well as the tax, only pays a minuscule fraction of the actual cost of roads, bridges and tunnels and pays nothing at all towards the cost of pollution.

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[Jiggers]

We should jack up the bus fare to $5.00 a ride. It would get rid most of the riff raff who ride it.

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[JustSarah]

I’m giving a big “WTF?” to those saying transfers are not round-trip tickets. Why does it matter what someone does with his transfer? If someone needs to take a bus to the pharmacy, pick up a prescription, then turn right back around to go home, why should they have to pay both ways if they can make the trip in the transfer’s allotted time?

I’m pretty sure Metro’s stance on transfers is the same. They don’t care how they’re used (round-trip, transfer, etc.), just that they’re only used within that window of time.

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[linda]

I always thought the transfer was good for only one and a half hours but the time on the transfer is set at the start point of the route (so if you’re taking a bus that starts in Burien on its way downtown, you could lose half an hour to 45 minutes on the transfer just due to that start point). Plus, as long as you boarded the bus before your transfer expired, your transfer is good even if it expires before you get to your final destination.

SarahScoot is right, Metro doesn’t care how you use the transfer, they’re probably just glad you paid!

Hijacking the thread breifly here because it came up: Once the Orca card is “officially” in use in January, Metro will be the only agency handing out transfers and the transfer will only be good on Metro buses. The Orca card records when you get on the bus, ferry, etc. and gives you two hours to complete your trip. So if you transfer from Sound Transit train to Metro bus you tap the card again and it registers as a “transfer”. If you don’t use an Orca card, you’ll have to pay each agency if you use more than one agency to get to work–the “incentive” to switch to using this card over paying each time you ride. The Orca card is good on Pierce Transit, Community Transit, Sound Transit, Metro, Washington State Ferries (not sure about Kitsap Transit or the Water Taxi but suspect since Orca was designed as a regional card it applies to these transit services as well).

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[Ken]

Interpret this quote any way you like. I don’t live on a bus route where a round trip to anywhere useful could be accomplished within an hour. I never ask for a transfer with that intent. You can do anything you like. But stop complaining that the bus system is ripping you off.

If you need to change buses to get to your final destination, ask the driver for a transfer when you pay. Transfers are valid on any Metro bus or the Waterfront Streetcar for about one hour after they are issued. Transfers received on off-peak trips may be used on peak-hour trips by paying the balance of the peak fare. Metro transfers are valid for base fare on Sound Transit and other local transit systems.

http://metro.kingcounty.gov/tops/bus/fare/fare-info.html

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[miws]

I was going to say two hours, but since a couple of others have brought up an hour and a half, my memory is telling me that’s what the official time has been.

I’ve had the ORCA card for a little over six months now, and it’s supposed to give two hours. Being unemployed for awhile now, I don’t ride the bus as much as I used to, so haven’t really had the opportunity arise to where it’s been, say, two hours plus five or ten minutes between “paying the fare” on more than on bus, to see if it’s a firm two hours. I’ve actually been curious about that.

Since it’s been awhile that I’ve used transfers, my memory is a little foggy, but I believe I was often getting two to two and a half hours on one from many drivers.

I remember one time, earlier this year, or maybe late last year, when I hopped on the 560, told the driver where I was going as I shoved my bus tickets into the farebox, and instead of giving one of his pre-torn transfers that were likely for two hours or so, he tore off a new one for THREE hours! Dunno why he did it. May have recognized me as a regular rider, though I don’t recall recognizing him from previous rides.

Mike

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[JustSarah]

So what about those of us who have annual passes, the prices for which estimate that the rider uses the bus five days a week (work days), to and from work? Is it “fleecing” Metro when I use my bus pass on weekends, too? Or if I hop a bus on my lunch hour to go from my office in Belltown to Pioneer Square?

Metro knows that people use the transfer for round-trip errand runs. This is very common. It sounds like those who are saying that this isn’t what a transfer is for are not regular bus riders.

linda’s exactly right; Metro’s just happy if all riders pay.

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[austin]

I’m regularly given transfer tickets good for 2-3 hours, occasionally longer. I can cover some decent ground and get back in that amount of time, and often do. If that means I’m stealing from the car drivers in some backwards way, so be it.

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[Sue]

Mike, I would think that with Orca, they’d probably be very strict on the 2 hour limit for transfers. My husband (who has Orca with an ePurse, not a pass like me), used it to go downtown one day, met me for lunch, and then went back home. While on the return bus he looked at the time on the Orca machine and noticed that he was 2 stops away from his destination, but the transfer time was going to run out in 1 minute (he had checked it when swiping originally). He opted to get off a stop early and walk a few extra blocks than risk whether he was going to get charged another $1.75 for the extra minute or two after the transfer.

As for using transfers for round trips, I know when I moved here I was surprised that it was allowed. But only because in NYC they put route #s on the transfers and you cannot use it on the same route # for a return or continuing trip. In fact, if the bus you transfer to does not intersect with the one you got off, they can reject it too. So it was my initial assumption that it was the same way here. But I’ve yet to see a rule that prohibits round trips on a transfer, so I see no problem with it.

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[miws]

Thanks for that info, Sue.

That’s the only downside I can see to ORCA. Since, as others and I have mentioned, many drivers are generous with transfer time.

I’ve been urging friends and others I encounter to get an ORCA card, especially while the card itself is still free. I think it’s great for the occasional user, so they don’t have to hassle with cash, tickets, transfers, or any combination thereof.

It’s accepted on the different transit agencies, which makes transfers between them fairly seamless.

Later in the evening, of the day back in May when I ordered my card via the ORCA website, I found out a friend was hospitalized down in Tacoma. Decided to go down there the next day, which would involve riding Metro to DT Seattle, Sound Transit to DT Tacoma, and Pierce on up to the hospital.

Had tickets for the Metro leg, which would not have been valid on the ST leg, (for example if for that route would have been the first I would board) since it was a Pierce operated route, (they would been okay on a Metro operated ST route. The transfer from the 54 was valid on the ST route, but even with plenty of time left, would not have been valid on the Pierce route. So, I had to remember to get a new transfer on the ST route.

Oh, plus before I left home that morning, I had run over to Thriftway and pester them to break a $20.00 bill down early in the day, so I’d have some ones and change to pay for any extra that the tickets/transfers wouldn’t cover.

I’m familiar enough with the different agencies that it wasn’t too confusing, just a hassle. Oh how I wanted that ORCA card right then! The great thing was, the next day it came in the mail! (Two days after the on-line order!)

A week later, I ended up making another trip down there, semi-related to the one the week before. (Going to Tacoma is not a regular thing for me.) Ended up only riding the Metro and ST routes that time, and enjoyed the ease of the ORCA card, even though it wasn’t a thrilling as if I had ridden all three agencies again! ;-)

So, yeah, since my current situation definitely doen’t justify buying a Puget Pass, it’s nice to have the convenience of a pass again. I think part of the frustration of the tickets and cash thing, was the fact I’ve used a pass in one form or the other, for most my many years of riding the bus.

Oh, and forgot to address the round trip transfer thing in my previous post.

My memory may not be too accurate on this, due to so many years of using a pass, but currently Metro transfers are valid for the duration on the transfer, no matter the direction, or if it’s a return trip, whatever.

Years ago, IIRC somtime in the ’80’s, Metro “replaced” the transfer with what they called a “One-Hour Pass”. Still the same piece of paper, very similar in design to the previous, and later transfers. It was pretty much intended to be used for one other trip, as the second leg of the original trip. Only good for that one hour time span, not valid on return trips.

Don’t remember how long it lasted, but I don’t think it was very long. Perhaps months. Previous to that, I believe transfers were not supposed to be used on return trips, but don’t recall how that was enforced.

I think the transfers were marked in some way that would determine if somebody was trying to use an unexpired transfer on a return trip, but don’t remember how it was done. Thinking back, It seems it would have been an incredible waste to have to print up and distribute unique transfers to specific routes, or groups of routes.

Mike

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[austin]

Remember when metro buses had the LED reader boards behind where the driver sits? That was cool.

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[JustSarah]

See, I was thinking that if Metro didn’t want people to use the transfers for return trips, all they’d have to do is mark them with the route number. Then the driver just wouldn’t allow people on if their transfer had the same number on it as the bus he was driving.

But there are so many ways in which this wouldn’t be possible: depending on what direction the bus is travelling, the driver may not be shown the transfer until the rider disembarks, and also, as mentioned above, drivers really don’t enforce people paying fare at all.

If Metro really doesn’t want people using the transfer as a round-trip, they’d put these provisions in place and explicitly state in their policies that transfers are only for use when transferring to another route. However, I’ve seen no evidence that Metro does not want people using transfers in such a way.

Those who think people are abusing the system by paying fare, getting a transfer, and using it within the allotted time for a return trip need to redirect their anger toward those who just don’t pay fare at all. And there are a lot of them. They’re much more responsible for fare increases than the so-called “transfer abusers” are.

Anyway, the fare increases are more due to the fact that our fares were artificially low for too long. Look at any other city with successful mass bus transportation, and their fares will be higher than ours. If fares had been increased annually with inflation, Metro likely would not have had the huge deficit that has caused them to simultaneously hike rates by 20% each year since 2008 and cut routes.

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[Laconique]

Thanks for bringing this up, folks. I had no idea that you could use transfers for round-trips! I moved here from Boston where transfers worked exactly as Ms. Scoot just described- the transfer had the individual route number printed on it, so you could only use it for the continuation of your trip in one direction, so to speak. When I started riding the bus here, I never even thought to look at the transfers I was given because I assumed they worked the same way!

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[pigeonmom]

All this Metro talk has me reminiscing about the ’80s. I used to babysit for a Metro driver who worked a short morning shift and my partial payment would be a stack of that days transfers. When the public library got a color (big news back then!) copier, us kids would pool our money for a monthly pass, make copies of it and flash those in the days before swipeable cards.

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[GenHillOne]

Regardless of the window of time, sure seems like it would be easier to give out transfers as riders EXIT the bus. Even if it were only an hour, it would consistently be an hour for everyone. It’s odd to me that a rider would be “dinged” because they were on a longer route.

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[JustSarah]

Agree, GenHillOne. I admittedly am not up on the transfer system, as I’ve had an employer-provided pass for the past 3 years, but it seems like some drivers do account for lengthier trips when they hand out transfers. Also, I’ve seen people get a new transfer when they point out to the driver that they were on the bus for a significant period of the transfer they were given at the start of their ride. Similar to what Mike has experienced on the 560, I suppose.

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[Lex]

Gotta chime in here I’m married to a Metro driver and I can tell you that believe me the drivers are not tryign to fleece anyone in any way. Thats silly what would they benifit from doing that? The transfers are for 2 hours and believe me there are alot of drivers that will allow you to still ride the bus if your transfer has expired by 20 min or a few min. Just tell them your transfer expired a few min ago or 30 min ago. its all in your attitude. Obviiosly if you get on the bus and get a transfer and your bus is delayed due to traffic then exchange the one you have for a new one as you get off , as the driver have you ever tried? I recommend investing in an ORCA pass you can load up and believe me what you pay for a bus ride is much cheaper than the tank of gas these days not to mention the savings on parking , cheaper than a cab even. Try emailing the city executive about your concerns and ask for the changes to be made. Remember that the drivers are only following the rules that they are expected and reviewed on its their job. They ar not at the level to make the changes you require so be sure to email the county executive. Oh and how about saying something nice to your driver the next time you ride the bus they have a tough and stressfull job too ya know, getting you all to and from your destinatiions safely so the duration of your transfer is the least of their worries.

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[itneverrainsinwestseattle]

You really think the metro drivers are trying to “fleece” you? Get real!

Metro drivers are too busy dealing with dangerous drivers, watching for bicycles, and completing the route on time.

The last thing you metro drivers care about is your fare, which rightly comes after your safety, and the safety of others.

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[JustSarah]

Lex – what does your spouse say about using a transfer for a round-trip? Is there anything in their policies addressing that? Would love to know, because I never knew it annoyed anyone!

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[austin]

I've experienced what Lex describes re: leeway in the transfer times. Plenty of times I've, say, missed a bus out of downtown with a soon to expire transfer and caught the next one with a now expired transfer usually 20-30 minutes gone by the time I get to my home stop. Just show the transfer to the driver and ask if it's cool, I've never had a driver say no to a transfer reasonably close to the present time.

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[miws]

Okay, I unintentionally did the ORCA Card Transfer Time Verification Test the other day.

On the bus ride back home, (which would have been counted as a transfer, had I been within the 2 hours), I was charged full fare again, shortly after 2 hours.

The following day, I checked my “Transaction History” on the ORCA site, and it had been 2 hours and 8 minutes, between taps on the ORCA Reader.

Now, that’s not to say there may not be a grace period of 1-5 minutes, or something like that, but, now I know I won’t get 2.5 hours, or even 2 hours and 10 minutes! :-( ;-)

Mike

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