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March 20, 2012 at 4:30 am #750159
jamminjMemberas an aside… 6 month ago… women’s health issues was not even on the blip on political discussion…. but since the GOP can’t win on the topic of economy… we are having these discussions.
Frustrating… but also enlightening to hear what people have to say.
BUT also telling how programmed people are, like kootch, in following talking points that one is told to follow.
now the catholic church is mandating our national policy… by some.
March 20, 2012 at 2:45 pm #750160
JoBParticipantjamminj..
i think every American deserves the right to practice the religion of their choice…
but.. and this is a big objection..
i don’t think anyone practicing religion has the right to dictate public policy based on their religious beliefs..
and that is what is happening here
i particularly love a sign going around facebook today..
it says that if you want the right to opt out of paying for the pill based on your religious morals
i want the right to stop paying for the war based on mine.
March 20, 2012 at 7:55 pm #750161
kootchmanMemberBoy if choices were around like that… why liberals don’t understand .. it’s not the public’s “right” to tromp over first amendment rights. good as it feels.
Now the true hurt of Obamacare comes out. The trick was..CBO had to make a 10 year forecast. It was a slight of hand. Obamacare takes in revenue and taxes for 4 years before the law comes into effect. All revenue, no expense. Then, CBO scored the 940 billion based on 6 years of outlays. Well two years have now passed… and the NEW scoring is in.
Ooops No wonder he didn’t want to talk about it. Now the actual cost over ten years has ballooned to … 1.76 Trillion. Costs are double and the program isn’t even in effect yet.
But it get worse! Obamacare needed 500 billion in “start up”..so..they “borrowed” the Medicare trustees.. 240 billion..from Medicaire trust account to the treasury.. (you are all familiar with this..it;s what they do to SS) Congress then counted it as a cost offset, a revenue source for Obamacare…. AND included 240 billion as Medicare revenue inflows to budget for Medicare. The double counted revenue. To pay the Medicare trust fund back… they will have to borrow the money… now add the 240 billion to the deficit. We are now at 2 Trillion !
Obamacare also told CBO… assume small businesses will drop about 1 million insured into the exchanges. BUT. in a survey of over 50,000 businesses…
“A new study of employers conducted by Willis Human Capital Practice found that employers expect higher health costs for both employers and employees as a result of ObamaCare, and many expect to shift employees into taxpayer-paid coverage once the option is available.”
Obamacare told CBO to score the act assuming 1,000,000 … WillisHuman Capital says assume a minimum of 4-5 million…will lose private coverage… a 4-500 per cent increase.
That’s what the right side of the aisle is looking at. All the left could hear were the talking points.. coverage until age 26, free preventative care, and of course universal birth control. Goodies with no price tags. So now we know why the White House has been so mysteriously quiet the last two years.
Now, Medicare will be so shortfunded… how will they make it up?
Why of course..the Independent Payment Advisory Board (IPAB), They are trying to cut reimbursement rates to Medicare patients right now. AMA survey says … 40% of all doctors are NOT accepting new Medicaid patients NOW. That folks is health care rationing. If you can’t find a doctor..what good is Obamacare.
Still like that Obamacare? It is now a 3-4 Trillion dollar deficit program for the next 10 years. And the Medicare trust fund will be raided repeatedly as Obamacare takes the trust fund you all paid into to meet some of the Obamacare shortfalls… Oh, yea,,, include the 110,000 exemptions granted to Cadillac plans, labor unions and muniworkers…. they won’t be adding a dime.
March 20, 2012 at 8:04 pm #750162
kootchmanMemberHere ya go Jan…
This is sooooo bad. even the Democrats think it is getting toxic.
President Obama is doubling down on one of the most dangerous provisions in his 2010 health overhaul law. In his proposed budget, he plans to give even greater powers to the Independent Payment Advisory Board (IPAB), a panel created by the new health law to contain Medicare spending.
Opposition to the IPAB crosses party lines. Rep. Frank Pallone (D-NJ), the top Democrat on the Energy and Commerce Health Subcommittee that will consider the bill today, has said he has no interest in defending the board: “I’ve never supported it, and I would certainly be in favor of abolishing it.”
Unemployment, energy prices, inflation, exploding deficits, and gutting of Medicare. NOW the campaign starts…..
BC and the Catholic church was a good diversion… simplistic, jingoistic, and divisive.
March 21, 2012 at 6:21 am #750163
redblackParticipantBoy if choices were around like that… why liberals don’t understand .. it’s not the public’s “right” to tromp over first amendment rights.
see, that’s your interpretation, and you still haven’t proven that your first amendment rights are being violated because you’re paying into an insurance pool that pays for something to which you have a moral objection.
i fail to see the correlation between this:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
and
i don’t want my dollars paying for no birth control pills!!!!11!1!
hell, man. if anyone’s first amendment rights are being trampled here, it’s the right of women to seek the health care of their choice – and republicans and christians are doing the trampling.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.
now, you need to tell me how paying into a health care insurance pool that covers contraception prohibits the free exercise of your religion.
see?
i’ll do you one better. i assert that in most cases, a woman’s husband doesn’t even have the right to know what a woman and her gynecologist are discussing unless she chooses to divulge it to him.
so i certainly don’t see why a bunch of strangers, busy bodies, religious nuts, and politicians should be in that exam room.
ahh. then there’s medicare – and medicaid – whose funding was slashed so severely by republicans that hospitals nationwide are being forced to lay off tens of thousands of health care workers. meanwhile, patients are not returning for follow-ups with their health care providers because they have no medicare or medicaid funds.
why? because, unlike willard romney – and rck santorum, with his pension and cadillac health care for life that i’m paying for – most people are poor.
way to go, teabaggers.
March 21, 2012 at 1:19 pm #750164
redblackParticipant“A new study of employers conducted by Willis Human Capital Practice found that employers expect higher health costs for both employers and employees as a result of ObamaCare, and many expect to shift employees into taxpayer-paid coverage once the option is available.”
ahh, joe plumeri. excellent source.
that guy ought to be in jail, right next to greenspan, bernanke, paulson, geithner, summers, and blankfein.
Obamacare told CBO to score the act assuming 1,000,000 … WillisHuman Capital says assume a minimum of 4-5 million…will lose private coverage… a 4-500 per cent increase.
ahh, the ann coulter tactic. when facts don’t agree with you, just make %&$*#@! up.
March 21, 2012 at 6:52 pm #750165
kootchmanMemberwell redblack.. you or I may not have the right to know… but the entire federal bureacracy does! Obamacare does that. Did ya notice that in the legislation? No? Because you got to read it AFTER it was passed. Every insurance company is required to submit to the federal government the complete health care record of every citizen. I would say the congress that passed the act pulled the numbers out.. but heck redblack,…check the CBO’s new projections… already Obamacare has doubled in costs… it just took 24 months for the “assumptions” to run into the 10 year minimum projections required of the CBO..can’t wait for the next year, and the year after and..etc.etc. etc. Use common sense man. It is not a stretch of genius…maintain a group plan.. here take a look.
“The average cost of a family policy offered by employers was $13,375 this year, up 5% from 2008,” Even if the smallest business did a 50/50 match… that’s over $6500 per employee family. The “fine” to opt out is $2000. DUH….watcha think they will do? every survey says at a minimum 40% of all small businesses will stop offering health insurance. If you could cut your employee health care costs by 66%…. by throwing them on Obamacare… would you do it? Of course you would. When you don’t want to read the budget numbers, do the research, check facts and surverys…. “blame a vast right wing conspiracy”.. ha ha ha… Democrats hate it.. people are starting to smell the stench.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2009-09-15-insurance-costs_N.htm.
March 22, 2012 at 5:11 am #750166
redblackParticipant“The average cost of a family policy offered by employers was $13,375 this year, up 5% from 2008,”
because they know that their turn at the hog trough of american consumerism is about to come to a very rude end
loot us while you still can..
March 22, 2012 at 5:13 am #750167
redblackParticipantno comment on your first amendment case before the supreme court, huh?
i figured. your lawyer advised you to clam up so as not to scuttle the case. right?
March 23, 2012 at 8:28 pm #750168
waterworldParticipant(Now that I see how to do the block quoting thing, I’m dying to try it…) So, Kootch sez:
Every insurance company is required to submit to the federal government the complete health care record of every citizen.
Kootch, I’m not so sure you have that right. In fact, I’m pretty sure it’s wrong. Care to cite the authority for that statement? I reviewed the statute and the proposed regulation that spawned hyperbolic headlines last year saying that the government is going to gather up everyone’s medical records. If you follow the references back to the source, you’ll find a rule proposed by HHS last July. It’s in the Federal Register at 45 CFR Part 153. And it does not require anyone to give our personal health records to the government.
The draft rule spells out actuarial data that must be collected and submitted to HHS for purposes of adjusting premiums and payments to insurers in connection with state and federal risk adjustment and reinsurance programs. The underlying objective is to stabilize patient premiums and claims payments to insurers while the insurance exchanges are ramping up over the next few years. The first three years that the health insurance exchanges are operating are when costs are most likely to be unstable. The introduction to the proposed rule explains why that is, and it’s not worth going into here.
The important thing is that nothing in the proposed rule requires insurance plans or providers to supply the government with individual patient health records. The rules requires insurers to collect and maintain a standard set of data on claims and to submit “de-identified” claim information, including patient demographics, summarized claims costs, reinsurance costs, and the like. De-identified means that the information identifying the patient is omitted. A key element of the rule is that insurers and states must have systems in place to protect patient privacy.
Data sets like the one contemplated in this rule are already collected and used by insurance companies, by government-sponsored plans like Medicare and Medicaid, and by the VA. Without this kind of data, it would be impossible to determine fair premiums for consumers.
I know this isn’t your primary gripe. However, I find that when I dig into almost any of your assertions of fact, they prove to be false or greatly exaggerated. Your claims about the First Amendment — namely, that the law may not impose obligations on people that conflict with their religious views — are also overstated, but I am not sure it’s worth the effort to explain why.
March 24, 2012 at 4:09 am #750169
redblackParticipantwaterworld: thank you for your unpaid injection of sanity into these debates.
March 24, 2012 at 4:15 am #750170
waterworldParticipantYou mean I don’t get to bill someone? Crap!
March 24, 2012 at 5:38 am #750171
redblackParticipantIf you could cut your employee health care costs by 66%…. by throwing them on Obamacare… would you do it?
i have a request for conservatives here:
please define obamacare.
you guys seem to think that it’s a health care plan, or a socialized medicine plan. so, if i don’t currently have health insurance, how do i enroll and get medical coverage through the generosity of your tax dollars? am i to be issued an obamacare card that i present to my health care provider?
i’m not being a jerk. i really want to know what you think obamacare is.
and try to avoid platitudes, please. be specific – if you can.
March 24, 2012 at 1:24 pm #750172
kootchmanMember“de-identified” collection … this is the height of government speak. It’s needed..if Obamacare stands and the government takes over the healthcare system. No thanks… And it won’t. So after the costs stabilize (because the underlying data was skewed to fit the paradigm) then the federal government will purge the data files? In your dreams. They are going to adjust premiums alright… first by raising taxes…. selecting and targeting industries.. medical devices, tanning salons..etc.. just like WA state does, These will expand indefinitly..that’s what government does. Deception by diffusion.
March 24, 2012 at 4:31 pm #750173
JoBParticipantkootch..
so let me get this straight..
it’s ok for insurance companies
to collect and share personal data on you
with any other insurance company…
or any prospective employer for that matter..
secret data that you have no legal access to
but it’s not ok for the government
to compile medical statistics
based on your medical information?
because that information might one day become individualized?
because it’s the government
not some company looking for a way to make a buck off of your information?
geez kootch…
doesn’t that sound just the tiniest bit wak-a-doodle to you?
March 24, 2012 at 4:36 pm #750174
HMC RichParticipantHere are two more examples of the loss of civil liberties supplied by the White House. If this had happened under Bush most of you would have been screaming loudly. The second link scares the heck out of me. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/jan/02/ndaa-historic-assault-american-liberty
It may not be this President, but another could become a tryrant or a dictator.
or this
Now I know why the President has been pushing alternative energy.
Look folks, I do not trust the government, I do not trust Obama, nor the congress.
Considering the anti-oil stance, possibly cutting nuclear stocks by 80%, giving Russia secret ABM technology, trying to be “fair” with the rest of the world, I would say this is the strongest evidence that our President is causing chaos on purpose for a future power grab.
March 24, 2012 at 4:45 pm #750175
JoBParticipantHMC Rich
but you trust the folks who brought us Iraq
based on weapons of mass destruction
that didn’t exist
you trust the folks who raised the extradition program
to new levels of paranoia and incompetence
who placed a prison for “terrorists” on Cuba
and detained people there based on the unsubstantiated claims of paid informants
and tried to convince us that water-boarding
wasn’t torture
and if it was
torture was acceptable?
I will agree with you that i am more than uneasy about the breaches in our civil liberties
but blaming them on Obama is a mistake
March 25, 2012 at 4:13 pm #750176
redblackParticipantkootch:
..if Obamacare stands and the government takes over the healthcare system.
too vague. can you be more specific?
for example, if the supreme court declares that government mandates to buy insurance are constitutional, when does this takeover begin? and when can i start getting government coverage?
are there any other conservatives who can define obamacare and explain how i enroll in it?
many thanks.
March 25, 2012 at 5:21 pm #750177
JanSParticipantlol…JoB said wak-a-doodle :D
March 26, 2012 at 2:13 am #750178
kootchmanMemberYou won’t be able to.. we are going to sink it. 898 billion Pelosi projection.. now it is 1.7 trillion. Medicare… when propsed in 1965… the federal government projected it would cost 12 billion…. ACTUAL cost.. 110 billion… 10 times the projected cost. Been down this road. What entitlement program has ever met it’s projected costs? Ever been even close?
March 26, 2012 at 12:50 pm #750179
redblackParticipant[eye roll]
okay, kootch. but obamacare still exists today. so if, by some miracle of nature (or the messiah) you don’t sink it – but i fully acknowledge that you will – can you please explain to me how it supplants health insurance companies and how i sign up for coverage?
i really need to know how the government plans on taking over health care. and i’m sure doctors and nurses would like to know when to expect their first government paychecks and AFGE union cards, too.
thank you in advance. i’m really confused by this obamacare.
March 26, 2012 at 3:09 pm #750180
JoBParticipantJanS
i am guessing that term has a meaning i missed?
you can educate me privately, i will blush appropriately and then we can move on ;->
March 26, 2012 at 3:11 pm #750181
kootchmanMemberI worry about my family and how to get them healthcare. I like my healthcare plans..I don’t want them to be supplanted. How you get coverage for your family…that’s your job, not mine or the federal governments. I do recall doing a six month stint as a security guard as a second job to pay for COBRA…but heck, that’s me… until my group rates kicked in as part of self employed co-op purchasing.
According IPAB they were going to cut payments to doctors by 21% for Medicare services. Affordable ? Sure. Available? not if they keep doing that.
Did ya all catch the open mic today? Obama telling Medvedev he has more room AFTER the election? Yes indeed we did hear it. As we suspected, if he gets a second term.. back to the Barry Obama we all know… hard left turn. The man and his compass… always pointing to elections. Wadda hack!
March 26, 2012 at 3:15 pm #750182
JoBParticipantkootch..
if you had any sense you would love Obama..
he says what he needs to to get elected and then governs more like a republican
what’s not to like?
Oh right..
not like a bat shit crazy tea party republican…
like a Reagan republican
there is a difference
March 26, 2012 at 3:26 pm #750183
JanSParticipantjoB…nah…I just like the way wak-a-doodle sounds…it really conveys a lot :D
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