$15 minimum wage: too much or about time?

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  • #796237

    JoB
    Participant

    btw.. i have wanted to say this for a long time.

    employers trying to squeeze their profit from their employees create disgruntled employees and bad service…

    and trash their own businesses in the process.

    #796238

    miws
    Participant

    Seems so logical, doesn’t it Jo?

    Mike

    #796239

    wsn00b
    Participant

    Ms. Sparkles said: “What about the afterschool / weekend / summer jobs for students?”

    There seems to be a notion that students need/should work at a burger joint instead of spending spending that non-recreational time during summers studying extra. I find that counter-intuitive. The educational system needs to stop gouging students and their families so that kids can actually spend some time learning towards that well/high paying skilled job(s)/career(s) (if they are intellectually inclined towards and/or capable of those jobs).

    HMC Rich said: “I come from the school of thought that the minimum wage is a starting wage”

    Minimum wage is by definition a starting wage. For the period, that the person has not successfully ascended up the ladder, there still needs to be a living wage. The argument that a living wage will reduce the upward mobility ambitions of our society is also very flawed. Humans have innate greed to counter that. A living wage also helps a person/family with resources to move upwards.

    #796240

    dawsonct
    Participant

    For those who are still under the mistaken impression that raising the minimum wage will make prices skyrocket, or that min. wage workers are under-educated, or only the young, or the unmotivated or whatever negative myth it is you believe about America’s growing WORKING underclass, read this:

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-16/u-s-minimum-wage-lower-than-in-lbj-era-needs-a-raise.html

    You all on the FAR right are just a bunch of Calvinist scolds, pointing your fingers at others and demanding of them what you yourself are often unwilling to give. Get over yourselves.

    Wether you know it or not, you and the Republican Party are under the sway of the John Birch Society and their hatefull, objectivist dogma, and corporatists who actually prefer you no longer have any real civil rights. You are NOT truly conservatives, and you are NOT the mainstream.

    Got a problem with some 16 year old making a decent wage? Well, if they aren’t producing a profit for their boss, they wouldn’t have the job in the first place (Econ friggin’ 080 FFS! LABOR preceeds CAPITAL).

    The top .01% and their trust-fund babies have taken raises almost continuously over the last 30+ years, at the expense of the VAST majority of the rest of us., Time for a little redistribution, for the betterment of our Nation.

    #796241

    dawsonct
    Participant

    Low wages cost taxpayers money. In effect, companies are getting government subsidies to keep mistreating some of our society’s most vulnerable citizens.

    This is what is known as a hidden cost. One of many ways the wealthiest corporations and individuals in the world are able to drain the wealth of our Nation, and the Republican Party is supportive and in fact fully complicit as they plunder our public coffers.

    #796242

    JanS
    Participant

    dawson…good to see you….

    #796243

    miws
    Participant

    Yes, dawson, what Jan said…..

    Mike

    #796244

    captainDave
    Participant

    The perceived need for increased minimum wage regulation is actually a symptom of a much bigger problem in the US. The lack of competition in the not-so-free marketplace means that there are less companies competing for a lager number of workers. It is simple supply and demand. If the government continues to ignore a hundred years of antitrust legislation, the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer.

    I am working on a project to try and get municipalities to recognize the value of micro-enterprises (businesses under 5 employees) in communities. The cure for low wages is to get more businesses started so that they compete for employees like they did a couple decades ago.

    Monopolies destroy wealth for everyone but the few in control.

    #796245

    JoB
    Participant

    captain dave..

    while i agree that micro-enterprises are good for our local economy…

    i can’t buy into the notion that an increase in the minimum wage is a “perceived need”.

    #796246

    captainDave
    Participant

    JoB, It’s only a need because we the people have allowed our government to sit back and not enforce the anti-trust laws that have been on the books since the 1890’s. Abuse of employees is not a new problem. It happened before, and it was fixed. By the 1950’s, everyone could afford a home. Now we once again have monopolies, cartels and robber barons in nearly every sector of the economy from banking and insurance to food and medicine.

    If we break the illegal trusts, then there will be fair competition to bid up wages and lower prices again. Exorbitant rewards for “upper management” lords go away because it would make a business non-competitive in a free market.

    Minimum wage laws are like a mickey-mouse band aid on a life-threatening wound. Besides, legislation will always lag behind inflation. The peasants will keep getting poorer until the mechanism for wealth creation is fixed again.

    #796247

    2krazy4words
    Participant

    I’ve had this conversation at work – where many of us are working two jobs to make what we used to at one…

    $15 for a trainee doesn’t make sense to me or any business owner.

    Is there anyone else out there that remembers the days of performance raises? We used to get 2 reviews a year & usually a raise. Both reviews were based on performance and you would get a raise if you were meeting/exceeding expectations.

    Then there was also a ‘cost of living’ raise that came at a time when companies salaries were lagging behind… Presently this is the only one that exists…and sometimes not even that.

    I’m all for a livable wage. I’m also for earning it. And if the minimum wage goes up, what does that do for us now making that after a few years with a company? Why should those of us WITH EXPERIENCE be making less than those just walking into a job and having to learn?

    There are a lot of us starting over for the second or third time because of the economy …

    I also agree that the bigger corporations are the ones that need to be looked at. They’re the ones doing everything they can to make a profit (and keep it). Minimum hours to avoid health care, low salaries, and little or no growth opportunity. Small, local mom & pop type businesses struggle to break even and cannot afford what these corporations could easily afford based on size and volume.

    I don’t think there is an easy 1-size fits all solution. Yes, it would be nice to be able to pay the bills with ease – even better to have a little left over for ‘extras’…

    #796248

    EdSane
    Participant

    @2krazy4words, I think what you’re so clearly missing is that if you’ve worked for a company for years and still haven’t earned a living wage the company isn’t worth working for. I am all for small businesses that are able to and do pay liveable wages. Those that can’t survive under such a policy should not exist. Businesses that lower their margins and make up the profit by mistreating workers shouldn’t exist.

    #796249

    2krazy4words
    Participant

    @EdSane – I didn’t miss that, and agree “Businesses that … make up the profit by mistreating workers shouldn’t exist.” My neighbor has worked in that type of environment, yet it’s a ‘comfort zone’ for them and far too many employers play on that.

    In my case, it’s part-time job that offers medical/dental/vision, a bonus at end of year, and only a .50 raise every year ’til your 8th year… I’m not complaining about that …

    I think what you may have missed is that many of us have had to start over. We cannot get the wages we used to, because – starting over – our years of experience are NOT in the jobs we can get. THAT is my point. I don’t expect to be making the salary/wages of someone training me.

    Yet it would be nice if employers rewarded employees for a job well done as they used to. Performance bonuses were always an added incentive. Sure you were ‘guaranteed’ a raise, but you had some ‘control’ by applying yourself and being the best you can be.

    I watch too many (I also was a teacher) think they should just walk into a job and expect top dollar before they ever prove their ability/skills. This can also be very costly to an employer. They invest the time and money in a new employee, and if they don’t work out…

    As a small business, I paid that price. Got someone that had all the skills and should have been a great fit. They had experience, but on a different system. Problem was they were not good at following instructions…so I had to bring someone in to fix their mess AND hire someone that would follow instructions and learn they new system regardless of what/how much experience they had. Huge hit financially that I’m still trying to recover from.

    So THAT’s my point. It’s the point a few others have made here. Minimum wage is not meant to be a livable wage. It’s what’s reasonable to learn and grow with a company with the goal of EARNING a livable wage.

    I do wholeheartedly agree and am also “all for small businesses that are able to and do pay liveable wages.” ALL businesses should pay liveable wages. Yet, I don’t think a trainee should expect that walking into a new job. We all have ‘done our time’ and are better for it. It’s helped us know what’s important and necessary in life, so budgeting – while it sucks – is still understood and done. We strive to live within our means. We make the most of it and look to improving by moving up or moving out.

    #796250

    JanS
    Participant

    yes, I agree, minimum wage is not MEANT to be a livable wage, but, and that’s a Big but…there are adults who do that by working more than one minimum wage job. The jobs created lately have not been higher paying jobs, and people have to do what people have to do. What should be and what is are two very different things. We all wish we lived in the world of “should”…

    #796251

    Wes C. Addle
    Participant

    I’d say it’s about time, only if everyone else that makes less than $125K a year also gets the same 33% more money as well.

    Then we may actually see things improve for all people.

    #796252

    JanS
    Participant

    WA will eventually get there. The minimum wage in this state goes up to $9.32 on Jan. 01, 2014

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