From West Seattle Bridge mini-update to ‘distracted-driving cameras’ @ Move Seattle Levy Oversight Commttee meeting

By Tracy Record
West Seattle Blog editor

Since a brief West Seattle Bridge update was on the agenda, we listened in on last night’s monthly meeting of the Levy to Move Seattle Oversight Committee.

That wasn’t the only item of interest, though – the meeting also touched on two curiosity-piquing potential future tools in the ongoing Vision Zero safety program, and an unsurprisingly dour budget update.

First, the bridge. While its emergency needs obviously aren’t part of the original plan for the levy that voters passed in 2015, which is what this all-volunteer advisory group monitors, SDOT put it on the group’s radar last month. So deputy director Lorelei Williams presented a short update last night.

She noted that they’re inspecting the bridge in person daily and “almost done” installing monitoring equipment that “includes an alarm system.” She recapped the recent announcement of a stabilization contractor, adding that the department is “working toward moving capital delivery forward for the repair option and replacement option” – saying the two planning processes are “simultaneous … so we aren’t losing time.” And she briefly summarized the recent repaving/reconfiguration of the 5-way intersection at the west end of the low bridge. As for other traffic-flow issues: “Our traffic engineers are continuing to evaluate intersections and arterials to see what else may need to be done.”

A short time later, when Williams’ connection to the meeting was briefly lost, SDOT director Sam Zimbabwe added that they’re continuing to work on “all the transportation mitigation (but) don’t have specifics yet.” (He was responding to a question from levy committee member Joseph Laubach, a West Seattle resident, noting that the bridge closure will lead to more bicycle use and wondering if SDOT was looking into “high-priority” parts of the city Bicycle Master Plan that could be expedited to help.)

Later in the meeting, in general committee discussion of levy projects’ fate given the overall COVID-19 budget effects, another member wondered aloud if projects could be prioritized “to help people NOW” in the wake of the bridge closure.

That was it for bridge discussion. The two-hour meeting also included a lengthy update on SDOT’s Vision Zero program, now headed by Brad Topol. (The slide deck starts on page 4 of this combined presentation posted on the committee’s website.)

Earlier this year, Topol noted, there was a 74-day gap between traffic deaths in the city – just a few days short of the record. Vehicle volumes are down 50 percent right now, but speeds are up 10 percent – that’s according to a sampling of 26 locations. He updated the installation of new 25 mph speed limit signage on arterials citywide, saying it would take until spring of next year – 16 months in all – to finish. Case-study sites show they’re effective, he said:

He also reviewed some new tactics that will be tested: One is a “hardened center line” to further protect pedestrians:

They’re working on “a few pilot locations” to try those out. Also: “Distracted driving cameras,” an idea that’s about to go into the city’s technology-review process:

Topol said these wouldn’t/couldn’t be used for enforcement, but rather for data gathering – AI would detect if the “very high angle” camera showed the driver using a phone, and then theoretically after that was logged, the photo would be deleted but the data kept. They’re being used now in Australia (more about that here).

The only West Seattle mention in the Vision Zero presentation was that Phase II of 35th SW is complete.

As for the budget presentation – you can see the numbers at the end of the meeting’s slide deck. The most ominous note: Even the “slow recovery” projection might be too optimistic.

The committee also got an update on its main mission – the Move Seattle levy itself – and you can read the 1st-quarter report here.

79 Replies to "From West Seattle Bridge mini-update to 'distracted-driving cameras' @ Move Seattle Levy Oversight Commttee meeting"

  • Jort May 6, 2020 (1:06 pm)

    Interesting update. Even if the city received a $250 trillion cash grant tomorrow, they could spend every single dime of it and there still won’t be any possible resolution to the congestion caused by 100,000 drivers moving onto alternative routes. When things get moving again, and people are regularly driving, people are going to be incensed and infuriated that “the city” hasn’t done enough for them. It would be wise for “the city” to start informing people that there is literally nothing “the city” can do to change the concrete principles of geometry. There is no future for the next two years that includes easy automobile access to West Seattle. Changing signal timing, changing lane striping — those are window dressing on an unsolvable problem for cars. If the city were being realistic, they’d encourage West Seattle residents to immediately sell their cars and instead get ready to ride the bus or a bike, period. It’s unwise to give people false hope, it’s as bad as a Trump Coronavirus press briefing.

    • WSB May 6, 2020 (2:00 pm)

      To some degree, that’s the gist of my current open inquiry.

    • Anne May 6, 2020 (2:29 pm)

      No bus-especially not before a vaccine for C-19 -probably not even then, not able to ride bike of any kind-so it will be car for our household. Traffic will be slow, it will be bad, we’ll learn to take detours & we’ll adjust. 

    • Joe Z May 6, 2020 (3:41 pm)

      I agree, my biggest complaint with SDOT is that all of the mitigation is focused on cars. I have seen very little action on alternatives despite the detailed proposals from several community groups. The weather is getting really nice–I would love to not have to drive that awful detour a single time this summer but that isn’t feasible yet. It’s pretty easy to e-bike to downtown/Beacon Hill, Georgetown but I haven’t figured out a good plan for getting to north Seattle yet. SDOT desperately needs to connect the E Marginal bike lanes to the rest of the bike network–use some “social distancing” streets or something to get connected to 2nd Ave. Also, the Alaskan bike lanes need to be expedited. Has anyone ever tried to bike from Yesler to Elliott Bay? It’s terrifying. Although with the lack of tourists maybe one can just take the sidewalk now. It would also be nice to see something from SDOT/Metro for what new bus routes they have planned for when social distancing is over. A couple routes that use the 99 tunnel and then follow the D/E line routes would be fantastic. Also an express bus direct to the SODO light rail station. I’ve done the 21->light rail transfer many times and it simply isn’t an effective use of time, I only do it when I’m going to the airport with time to kill and don’t feel like paying for an Uber. I can’t imagine any of the water taxi solutions will be faster than taking the bus…the current water taxi is so slow that I could ride the C-line to downtown, get off, and take another C-line back home in the time it takes to use the water taxi+walking uphill to get to 3rd Ave.

      • mjc May 6, 2020 (7:05 pm)

        Hey Joe. I know how challenging the bike commute can be. My normal commute is about 25 miles round trip and takes me along the water front. I call it running the gauntlet, but those few short blocks are the only challenge I find, short of contending with other cyclists but that’d another thread. I’d say go slow on the sidewalk and go that way if it makes you feel more safe. Often times it really is the only option. I go to Fremont and points north on my commute via the sculpture park, interbay trail and the Nickerson/Canal trail to the Fremont bridge. Super easy from there to get to Green Lake, Ballard, UW, Bothell and places in between. For me, my average commute time one way is about 40 minutes each way from Puget Ridge to Fremont. I’d be happy to lead a tour of my commute for any one interested. If you work in Fremont the ride is pretty nice. 

      • Tsurly May 6, 2020 (7:06 pm)

        Contact West Seattle Bike Connections, the can help you find a route anywhere you would like to go.http://westseattlebikeconnections.org/

        • Joe Z May 6, 2020 (9:56 pm)

          The mere fact that one has to research or practice a safe biking route is a huge barrier. I don’t have to use “West Seattle car connections” to figure out how to drive somewhere. Try plugging a bike route into google maps and see how many miles the bike ride is compared with the equivalent car trip. And people wonder why the bike rate is stuck at 3%.

      • Brian May 7, 2020 (1:50 pm)

        I’m expecting to bike downtown when work-from-home ends, so I can avoid being on a bus. Driving is simply not an option for me. I had already written to City Council and SDOT about my concerns about the E. Marginal Way segment cycling alongside massive trucks with nothing but a stripe of paint to “protect” me. Then I (happily) found out about the East Marginal Way Corridor Improvement Project:

        https://www.seattle.gov/transportation/projects-and-programs/programs/freight-program/east-marginal-way-corridor-improvement-project

        “Phase 1 work will likely include:
        Constructing a protected bike lane (PBL) between S Atlantic St and S Spokane St with full separation between people biking and people driving and delivering goods to make biking safer and more predictable in the spirit of Vision Zero”

        I think it would be worth all of our while to express the need to expedite this to SDOT and City Council.

    • Repeat... May 6, 2020 (5:27 pm)

      We’ve read your opinion over and over again. Can you actually answer or even speculate on a few questions? Are there enough buses to increase service to accommodate all of the 100,000 drivers you mention? Do you think under current or even moderately relaxed social distancing guidelines that people will be comfortable or even willing to consider getting on a bus? Do you honestly believe cycling is a viable alternative for even a fraction of 1% of the current commuters? Do you have data on any of these opinions? People will work from home a lot more. Some will take alternate routes, some will ride public transportation, some will take the water taxi, some will take advantage of new options that we currently aren’t aware of. Constantly asking for everyone to ride filthy buses or cycle is 100% counterproductive. 

      • Skybear May 6, 2020 (8:34 pm)

        I think you misunderstand… Jort’s not asking you to ride the bus or bike… he’s letting you know the reality of the situation is many of you (car commuters) will have to. The reality is that there are literally constraints with this situation and it’s not going to be possible for the same flow of cars to leave WS when normal commuting resumes. The alternate routes simply will not be able to handle that much traffic, even with the little roadway tweaks people are asking for, and there isn’t likely to be a magic fix, that many of you are expecting and hoping for.

      • Jort May 7, 2020 (8:27 am)

        Yes, I believe cycling is absolutely a viable alternative for a significant amount of commuters, because cities all over the world have shown that it is possible when cyclists receive priority and safety attention. It’s certainly more viable than the Hopes and Dreams Magical Car Unicorn Pony Surprise that many people seem to be screaming at the top of their lungs for the city to produce. You’re either going to sit in hours of hellscape torture traffic and lose huge parts of your short life on this planet raging about an unsolvable car commute, or you’re going to suck-it-up, buttercup about bikes and buses and just get on one to go downtown. This isn’t some kind of argument, it’s just how this is going to be, because, like I said, if the city got $400 quadrillion cash and spent it all in one week, they’re still not going to solve this issue of basic geometry. 

        • NQ May 7, 2020 (2:25 pm)

          Jort – do you have any recent data that supports your assertion that cycling is a ‘viable alternative for a significant amount of commuters’ – specifically West Seattle  commuters?  Honesty, I’m really curious as I have seen similar contentions to this on the WSB in recent times. Were those commuting into downtown and nearby locations a significant component of the bridge traffic?

  • dzag May 6, 2020 (1:07 pm)

    The use of these cameras is really discomforting and will impact how I vote when our council-members come up for re-election. It always starts with “just data collection” to revenue generating and if we don’t act to protect our privacy we could lose a lot of our liberties.

    • Azimuth May 6, 2020 (2:51 pm)

      Agreed. Hard to unwind this stuff once it’s embedded.

    • heartless May 6, 2020 (3:16 pm)

      DZAG, AZIMUTH:

      Of what liberties do you think traffic cameras might deprive you?

      • AMD May 6, 2020 (3:54 pm)

        Privacy.  

        • Matt P May 6, 2020 (6:25 pm)

          You have no right to privacy while driving on a public road.  Nor do you while walking on a public sidewalk.  

      • Alki May 6, 2020 (5:27 pm)

        Well, for starters it is public information.  Can someone request a video with a request for public information request?  If so, then it has a huge impact on my liberties.  Think court, public harassment and public shaming just to name a few.

        • heartless May 6, 2020 (8:35 pm)

          It might be public information that you were driving down a road?  EGADS!  THE HORROR!!  YOUR LIBERTIES!!!  I mean, really?  That is your argument?  That is your ENTIRE argument?  That it might become public knowledge that you were driving down a public street in public?  You are hilarious. 

  • Bradley May 6, 2020 (1:08 pm)

    “Distracted driving” cameras? How Orwellian. Or, more accurately, how Durkanian.

    • heartless May 6, 2020 (3:18 pm)

      How dare we enforce laws that already exist!  Downright Orwellian for sure!  

      • Alki May 6, 2020 (5:28 pm)

        No problem with the enforcement of existing laws.  It is all in how the government does it.  This is not legal and so should be struck down.

        • heartless May 6, 2020 (8:32 pm)

          I mean, saying it’s not legal and should therefore be deemed not legal isn’t the most compelling argument.  Indeed, some might say that legal or illegal doesn’t even matter–what matters is the reasoning and the morality behind such judgments!  But that might be a bridge too far for some of you…

    • Duh May 6, 2020 (3:42 pm)

      OMG REALLY. Distracted driving has nothing to do with politics. Everybody does it,  don’t lie. I see it everyday,  all day,  people on the phone,  at the light,  yes it is illegal at the light to look at your phone. Stop doing it 

      • Bradley May 6, 2020 (5:02 pm)

        Please review the Fourth Amendment. It protects us from unreasonable searches. Peering through privately-owned windows of every vehicle is unreasonable searching, especially when there’s no probable cause.  It would just be a matter of time before those same cameras would automatically trigger automated citations as the red light cameras do. Guilty until proven innocent is un-American 

        • Jort May 6, 2020 (7:22 pm)

          Except if you’re texting and driving, you’re guilty of a crime. Just like if you run a red light. So yeah. GUILTY. The best way to avoid getting a ticket is to not break the law. Or you can whine about getting caught, whatever.

          • Bradley May 6, 2020 (8:45 pm)

            So, if you have no illegal drugs, stolen property, or stuffed endangered species in your house, then you’d be fine with police digging through your house without a warrant? If you aren’t doing anything illegal, you have nothing to worry about, right?

          • Jort May 7, 2020 (8:18 am)

            Yeah, except I don’t drive my house on publicly funded roads, nor does my driving of the house carry an inherent risk of killing other people due to its size and speed. There’s a difference. If you don’t like getting tickets for breaking the law on a public street, don’t break the law on public streets. It’s not complicated.

        • Chris May 7, 2020 (11:46 am)

          so…..it is better to let someone get killed by a distracted driver and then enforce the rules?What if it was your family member crossing the street?

  • Jon Wright May 6, 2020 (1:10 pm)

    Once upon a time I was totally anti-traffic camera because of privacy concerns. But nowadays there are so many psychopaths driving that getting killed on the road is a much, much greater threat to my (and my family’s) welfare and as a result I am in favor of traffic cameras everywhere. I am delighted to hear the Vision Zero team is exploring innovative ways to make roads safer.

    • heartless May 6, 2020 (2:30 pm)

      Same here.

      I do wish, however, that the government could just run their own traffic cameras, rather than giving money to the third-party companies.  

      • miws May 6, 2020 (3:31 pm)

        Spot on, Heartless, that has always been my only beef with traffic cameras; that they are handled by a private, third-party. I know handing it “in-house” would mean more bureaucracy, but I think the revenue should go completely to the city. —Mike

      • KM May 6, 2020 (3:32 pm)

        Yeah, I do have some concerns there, especially if they are able to capture more revenue by running their own. Americans are happy to turn over our personal information by the minute to private and third-party companies, so there’s not really a privacy concern moreso than anything else we do on a daily basis. Our phones capture more data about our whereabouts more than any camera could.

        • Alki May 6, 2020 (5:32 pm)

          You are correct about our phones.  The difference is that the government doesn’t have access to our phone data without a subpoena.  With the traffic cameras they don’t need a subpoena.  Huge difference.

          • KM May 6, 2020 (9:26 pm)

            Sure, for the government to access that data, they would need a subpoena. In the meantime, Facebook, Google, and Apple can do whatever they please with your data. Your neighbor’s Ring camera records you walking down a public sidewalk or driving on a public road, and Amazon has that data as well. It’s the overall fear of the “government overreach” I find puzzling when more sophisticated private conglomerates are making an insane amount of money on your every move. Why aren’t we uncomfortable or comfortable with both?

          • BBILL May 6, 2020 (10:26 pm)

            “The difference is that the government doesn’t have access to our phone data without a subpoena.” Yes, that change was made in June 2018 (Carpenter).

    • KM May 6, 2020 (2:57 pm)

      Jon, I’ve taken a similar path here on my evolved view of traffic cameras and I really hope we can move forward with the distracted driving cameras, red light cameras, speed cameras. I’m glad there’s been progress with the “block the box” efforts at the state level. We could never hire enough officers to deal with our traffic safety issues, nor would I support that due to the ongoing issues with biased policing. All drivers who threaten the lives of other road users need to be held accountable, and cameras ensure more fair and consistent oversight.

    • Chris K May 6, 2020 (3:10 pm)

      Hear hear.  I am more than willing to give up “privacy” and “freedom” to guarantee safety for my family.

      • The King May 6, 2020 (5:05 pm)

        The Chinese have given up a lot with surveillance systems for in place by their government. They may have to have their photos taken, give up fingerprints, blood and voice samples. Those that grow a beard, leave their house out of the back door or maybe visit a certain church are red flagged and sent to “re-training camps” akin to concentration camps where they are punished for their actions. Everything reaches a point of inflection and it’s not the tin foil hat crowd who sees it beginning to happen. The fbi had installed cameras downtown in various locations to which Kashama Sawant was absolutely livid about, her take on civil liberty rights is one of the few things I agree with her on, but I am at least willing to see it. She took a stand and had those cameras removed. Please understand this isn’t everyone’s idea of freedom. 

      • Sato N. May 6, 2020 (6:20 pm)

        No you’re not. Don’t lie to yourself and everyone here. Privacy = freedom, can’t have one without the other. This kind of monitoring only works if the watchers truly have nothing to gain by watching. Do you think that they only record drivers that are distracted? That they only record your speed? That they delete your data? Pay no attention to the slide deck, those words and images were made persuasivily. It’s an advertisement meant to change your mind and to get you to feel what this fool above feels. The database knows where you go, what you do, who you are, what you click, how often you have sex and what laws you break. The data only gets deleted from the originating database after it’s copied to the xref database and fed to the ai. You might feel like you have privacy right now, and freedom to a certain extent. And to a certain extent that may be true, but your mind is already affected by being watched. All people act differently when they’re being watched, much differently than when they feel they’re alone. As long as there is money to be made, trust me, you’re never truly “alone”…. If the data business had coherent regulation, only NGOs would do it for the purposes stated in the slide deck. With 20$ and 20 minutes, I could craft an ad that targets you, personally, and emails /texts /appears on your Google feed for any given situation based on who you are, what you’re doing, or what others around you just did. The ad can say anything, these things are never fact checked. The ad maker controls the message. When we say privacy and freedom, we mean privacy from this, freedom from this. When we say the cost outweighs the goal, this is what we mean. Send me a traffic citation, cool. Really this is better than being confronted by someone who is an armed, trained killer, looking for other ways to ruin my day or life through the car window, asking leading questions to get me to incriminate myself. But if the camera empowers global subjugation of information, give me liberty or give me death. Traffic deaths are a huge problem that cannot be solved by fear management. Everyone has to WANT to not kill anybody when they get behind the wheel, but unfortunately some folks just don’t think of that. They think “I’m late get out of my way”…. They think “stupid bus how dare you slow down in front of me”… They think “oh you’re turning left? I’ll just go around you on the right”…. They think “it’ll be okay if i go fast in the middle lane and get in the exit lane at the very last second”… For whatever reason. If distracted driving triggered an attempted manslaughter charge, maybe the thought of prison would alleviate the poisonous line of thinking that leads to awful accidents. Or maybe you get a reward of some sort for not speeding, like a reduced tax bill. But please, no third party data collection. There will never be trust there as long as the data is being used against us. https://eff.org

        • Jon Wright May 6, 2020 (8:06 pm)

          There is idealism and there is pragmatism. In my opinion, if one waits for a ideologically pure solution, one will be waiting forever. I want something to be done now to make the roads safer. I will take no solace that there aren’t any pictures of me stored in a government database when my kids get wiped out while walking on the sidewalk by someone who is driving distracted. There were privacy concerns when Caller ID first rolled out! Privacy expectations continuously adjust to technological developments; this is no different.

          • Jon barnes May 6, 2020 (10:34 pm)

            How did that pragmatic vote for Hillary work out for ya? If action now is what you’re looking for, why not lobby for ai driven cars instead of ai cops? First stop camera, next stop drones, last stop robocop. I agree with sato, make a reward for 0 traffic deaths, or a fine we ALL pay. It’s everyone’s responsibility. Punishment of only the wicked doesn’t adjust for the root of the problem. Why do people drive crazy? Attack that.I for one am for 1 lane, no passing roads. Every time you change lanes, you aren’t just cutting off one person, you’re cutting off everyone. Slow and steady wins the race. 

  • West Seattle Hipster May 6, 2020 (1:27 pm)

    Thanks for the update on the bridge, looks like the wheels are on motion for a repair/ replacement.At the end of the article it is stated that Phase 2 of 35th is complete.  Will there be a stage 3?

    • WSB May 6, 2020 (1:42 pm)

      There’s been no recent mention of anything further. The status of the 35th/Graham stoplight is an open question, though; that was billed as part of the West Seattle Neighborhood Greenway rather than part of either 35th “phase.”

  • West Seattle Lurker May 6, 2020 (1:48 pm)

    Did anyone on the Oversight committee know of the bridge reports from 2013 prior to the bridge closing? 

    • WSB May 6, 2020 (1:58 pm)

      Wouldn’t have been in their scope. I have been receiving the agendas for a long time and don’t recall seeing the WS Bridge as an agenda item before the current crisis.

      • West Seattle Lurker May 6, 2020 (3:11 pm)

        I looked through all the agenda reports and did not see it mentioned, they’re available publicly. I’m referring to the fact that the committee is staffed by individuals who would’ve had access to the knowledge as part of their working role within the government. The reports weren’t publicly available at the time, so my question is when did find out about the bridge in their capacity as a government employee not specific to the work they do on the committee. The committee seems to made up of individuals appointed for their experience in city government so I find it relevant if they knew of a problem behind closed doors but waited to address in an “oversight” manner until now. 

        • WSB May 6, 2020 (4:28 pm)

          There are only two people on the committee who are not community-member volunteers:
          -Chair of the Transportation Committee
          -Budget Director
          https://www.seattle.gov/transportation/about-us/funding/levy-to-move-seattle/oversight-committee

          Since the 1st is newly elected Alex Pedersen, probably not.
          The 2nd? Don’t know.

        • BBILL May 6, 2020 (5:35 pm)

          “The reports weren’t publicly available at the time” Yes, yes they were public reports, and are public reports, and all future inspection reports are also public reports (unless and until the state legislature changes the nature of the documents).

          • WSB May 6, 2020 (10:32 pm)

            Yes, they were technically public reports. But if they were never discussed publicly, technically they might as well not have been. Hard to ask for something you don’t know exists. Yes, for some of us, speculation – hey, maybe there’s a report about that, that we should PDR for, just in case it exists – is our job. For the average member of the public? Not so much. The question here is more like, SHOULD there have been a public discussion sooner? SDOT contends that the reports were routine until recently. P.S. We haven’t discussed it here but CM Pedersen has requested an audit of ALL the city’s “major bridges”:
            https://pedersen.seattle.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/CM-Pedersen-letter-to-Auditor-on-Seattle-bridges-2020.04.23-to-Auditor-.pdf

        • Chemist May 6, 2020 (8:17 pm)

          The Move Seattle Levy required an annual report on bridges and structures and their committee materials site doesn’t suggest a bridge-and-structure-specific report has been considered (just the broad overview of bridge work in the annual report).  From the 2015 Move Seattle Levy –

          In addition to the annual progress report, the Director of Transportation will prepare and submit an annual report focusing on bridges and structures including a narrative explaining in detail the condition of bridges and structures within the City of Seattle, especially the Ballard and Magnolia bridges, an assessment of known deficiencies and a funding plan to address known deficiencies.

    • BBILL May 6, 2020 (3:18 pm)

      Like most government records, the bridge reports are public records. Until February 2020, the recommendation was “Continue to Monitor.” The recommendation in February was to reduce capacity on the bridge through lane reductions by the end of the year. Then in March, the recommendation changed to immediate closure. For the first 5 years the cracks did not grow much, and during the last 12 months, they suddenly grew at unexpected rates, to unexpected extents.

  • Masked Man May 6, 2020 (2:19 pm)

    I’m not a genius by any means but the numbers for accidents are down because fewer are driving.  Not because the speed limit changed to 25.  Also, speeding is up because fewer cars are on the road making it open highways for people.  When our world opens up, there will be traffic jams which will cause slower traffic, not signage.   Way to spend our much needed money on new signs SDOT.  It’s going to be 5mph during our commutes in no time.  Problem definitely not solved.  I’ll be interested to see if pedestrian (and bike) accidents will go up.  

  • Sillygoose May 6, 2020 (2:30 pm)

    Hi,So I am curious and it could have already been mentioned and I missed it but, is the contractor of the bridge that failed 10 years earlier than its expected and paid for life going to help with any type of financing for this new project rather than once again another project falls on the shoulders of tax payers. 

    • BBILL May 6, 2020 (3:29 pm)

      I’m guessing the contract to build the bridge was based on construction, not a “paid for life,” but it might be interesting to request the records. Also today’s repair of the structure, if possible, will probably not include a warranty–if a warranty is requested, then the warranty will either be designed so that there is unlikely going to be a payout or very expensive.

  • Mark Schletty May 6, 2020 (3:26 pm)

    More government spy cameras, personal tracking methods, etc. is not what anyone should be okay with. We have a fascist in the White House as it is, we don’t need any more totalitarian state monitoring of citizens here in Seattle too.

  • anonyme May 6, 2020 (3:29 pm)

    Like Jon and others, I used to be totally against traffic cameras and now I’m all for them, including those for distracted driving.  Too many entitled psychos on the road and SPD seems unwilling or unable to do adequate traffic enforcement.  Even if they did, there are just too many violators these days, and cameras guarantee evidence.

  • Wondering May 6, 2020 (3:44 pm)

    WSB… First, thank you for your coverage. In that coverage has the possibility ever been talked about to tear the bridge down, build it with light rail capability and use that money as a portion of the rebuild cost. It would seem that the money used to build light rail bridges or a tunnel would be redundant at this point if you could “start from scratch” with a new and improved West Seattle bridge. 

    • WSB May 6, 2020 (4:14 pm)

      It’s been brought up repeatedly but what we don’t know is whether it’s being seriously pursued.

  • Flo B May 6, 2020 (4:56 pm)

    Jort. LOVE your anti car rants. Especially considering you own, and drive a car. Would be interesting to see the bike rage if 10,000 more bikes were on the road. Willing to bet that Metro would fail if it had to accommodate THOUSANDS of extra riders.

    • AMD May 6, 2020 (6:02 pm)

      A thousand additional people is 16 buses.  For a county-wide network of hundreds of buses running at all times, most days.  I think you’re wildly overestimating the “strain” additional passengers put on the system.  

      • 1994 May 6, 2020 (9:25 pm)

        1000 riders divide by 16 buses is 62.5 riders per bus….I thought the new normal is For buses that are 40 feet long, the optimal number of passengers allowed at one time is 12, and for 60-foot buses, the optimal amount is 18.

        • AMD May 6, 2020 (9:45 pm)

          Those are the reduced numbers due to COVID.  Metro won’t need to accommodate “thousands of extra riders” until we’re all able to go back to work.  

    • Aerial Observer May 6, 2020 (6:18 pm)

      Saying Jort is “anti-car” for repeatedly pointing out the completely obvious is like saying Scotty was “anti-starship” for repeatedly telling Cap’t. Kirk, “I canna change the laws of physics.” 

  • Baffled May 6, 2020 (5:02 pm)

    Next up: installation of distracted engineering cameras at SDOT?

    • To Engineer Is Human May 7, 2020 (10:07 am)

      I vote for the distracted engineering cameras at SDOT.  Not repairing the failed bearing in the bridge is that “run to failure” mentality.  SDOT documented the failed bearing in their 2013 report.  They allowed the bridge to fail.  Inexcusable !

  • Bary Mcaukener May 6, 2020 (6:39 pm)

    When are they gonna change 35th SW back to 2 lanes each direction between Morgan and Roxbury? Also change Roxbury back to 2  lanes each direction from 35th SW to 16th SW.

    • Jort May 6, 2020 (7:24 pm)

      How about never? It won’t make anything go faster, and it will decrease the safety on the road. There’s no need to undo safety-related changes to the roadway to accommodate cars, just so they can get stuck in the inevitable traffic, anyway. 

    • AMD May 6, 2020 (9:52 pm)

      They’re not, and there’s no additional need to because of the bridge.  The main cut through to the 1st Ave bridge is Morgan, which is north of the lane reduction.  Roxbury doesn’t get backed up between 35th and 17th.  The major backups are 17th -15th (well, that extends towards 13th at rush hour) and 8th.  Those are already 2 lanes each direction.  There are occasionally backups at 20th when church or school is just letting out, but that’s a short window of time.  SDoT isn’t going to take your feedback seriously if you’re not dealing in reality.  

  • Don Brubeck May 6, 2020 (8:08 pm)

    Won’t do any good to change the 3-lane parts of 35th or Roxbury back to 4 traffic lanes without first  widening the  Spokane St Bridge, 1st Ave S Bridge and the South Park Bridge for more capacity on the bridges.  Until then, widening the alternative route to the bridge would just make the traffic jam wider, not faster.  The arterials on both sides of those bridges are not the choke points.  The City is not going to be able to widen any of those bridges. The only realistic ways to get more people over those bridges are to put more of them on buses and bikes and have people stagger their commute hours. Reducing the number of  trips by having more people shift to  telecommuting also is part of the solution for freeing up bridge capacity. 

    • Chemist May 6, 2020 (9:04 pm)

      Counterpoint to this argument about a restriction further along – the zipper merge instructs drivers to use two lanes ahead of a restriction to a single lane and says it moves more vehicles/is a more efficient use of the roadway.   I imagine the drivers who turn off from the two lane section/live in the area would also benefit from the added capacity through the two lanes vs a more dense single lane.

    • 1994 May 6, 2020 (9:30 pm)

      Not true! Plenty of people will simply want to continue their journey SOUTH of Roxbury or pick up the 509 Highway at S 128…… Not everyone using 35th or Roxbury  has a destination taking them over the 1st Ave S or 16th Ave S bridges. 

    • dsa May 6, 2020 (9:49 pm)

      Capacity across both those bridges can be improved *if* they choose to do so.  1st So can have it’s HOV lanes (both sides) shortened.  Then re stripe the northbound onramp from a two lane merge to a full two lane on ramp to the bridge.  That requires tightening access from 509. You know the 1st So bridge gets traffic from the Burien area.  Once they see how bad the jam is many way south enders will avoid it.  And for South Park at least for outbound, the signal and maybe some channelization at East Marginal Way can be improved.  There are other things that can be done too. but SDOT is either keeping mum or does not care.  Again Durkin’s newsletter was bridge silent.

  • Stevie J May 6, 2020 (8:19 pm)

    It’s true that driving is at odds with the 4th Amendment. When driving became popular, the attorneys of bootleggers cited the 4th Amendment, but eventually this argument stopped working. There is essentially an exception to cars in the 4th Amendment: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_exception if anyone would like to read more about this I would suggest “Policing the Open Road” by Sarah Seo.

    Back to the point in this post – it is impossible to enforce driving laws without exponentially increasing the number of police officers. Additionally, police officers are biased and will stop/ticket different demographics at different rates. Traffic cameras allow safety laws on the road to be enforced equally. If you don’t want to be cited simple don’t speed/text. Drivers kill 40,000 Americans per year and cause lifelong injury to millions more. The best thing we could do is redesign the roads to make it physically impossible to go faster than 20 mph. The next, cheaper and easier thing to do is automated enforcement. 

  • Wsaeattlte May 7, 2020 (2:48 am)

    Oh the visual Surveillance and massive investment in face recognition technology.as of late; now it will never be frowned upon to wear a mask!  Hat and masks will be the law breakers garb of choice and will be encouraged to do so. After the cameras monitoring your ever move are not effective, along come the individualized implanted codes. Constant surveillance regardless of your activity.  People really don’t see this coming?  It’s almost here, if not already in the form of a bulky phone. Imagine implants tracking location, activity, diet, circadian habits. Oh I just can’t wait. Only step after that is a control feature programmed into the implant. What a joyous life!

  • S - in West Seattle May 7, 2020 (8:54 am)

    You all for get about these cameras and how much people freaked out about this. How is these new ones any different. https://westseattleblog.com/2018/01/coming-down-never-used-seattle-police-surveillance-cameras-wireless-mesh-network-being-removed-starting-today-in-west-seattle/

    • WSB May 7, 2020 (3:49 pm)

      What’s different seems to be, as others have pointed out, the world has changed in the seven years since most of that played out (we broke the news of the cameras in early 2013)… all the issues and concerns raised then have been rendered all but obsolete by so many people opting nto the surveillance-cam/microphone world.

  • D May 7, 2020 (10:16 am)

    The issue I have with the distracted driving cameras is management of the enforcement. It’s all fun and games and “oh thing of the children” BS, until you have to fight a bureaucracy in the event of a false accusation.In a previous state I lived, I received a citation for running a red light. Despite not even being in the state at the time, the picture that came along with the citation wasn’t even my car. The automated license plate reading system mixed up 2 letters on the plate and assigned the picture to me.Despite being the wrong make/model/color of car, and having a fuel receipt from out of state, it took over 2 weeks to get it cleared up. 

Sorry, comment time is over.