31 Replies to "What do you think about growth? How can Seattle encourage affordable housing? These and other questions ..."

• flimflam December 16, 2014 (4:32 pm)

  so seattle needs to be “affordable” to everybody? I really don’t understand the premise here – like many economic issues, housing is about supply and demand, not providing cheap (or subsidized) housing.

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  I thought that people generally realized what they can afford to buy and where they can afford to live. should I expect to find “affordable” housing in every city in the US? if seattle is too expensive for someone, how should seattle really react?

  • WSB December 16, 2014 (4:41 pm)

    That, I suppose, is what they would be interested in hearing, and I hope you left that as a comment on the survey home page (which can be done without even taking the survey).

• skeeter December 16, 2014 (5:04 pm)

  I’m with you flimflam. Let the market determine the housing price.

• Ray December 16, 2014 (5:05 pm)

  Agreed flimflam. Whiel I understand the interest by the city to have afforadable hosuing for lower income workers/families, housing/rentals are byproducts of the market and the environment. You will still have the haves/havenots because of limited “cheaper” housing. how do you manage who gets dibs at the cheaper units? More important, how can the city force developers/management companies to provide cheap housing ? That is unfair to these companies that are for profit businesses. They should be able to charge whatever they want and whatever the market can bear. If the city wants the cheaper units, let the city provide it. But then again that puts it back on the taxpayer to subsidize other people unfairly.

• twicksea December 16, 2014 (5:28 pm)

  Trying to take the survey. It seems to “break” after question 5. No way to enter my answer and move forward. Update: click the link that says you can’t see the survey (not technically true) for a better interface.

• Peter December 16, 2014 (5:35 pm)

  Flimflam is fundamentally right, housing prices are driven by the market, and not everyone is going to be able to afford to live in the city. But our elected officials have taken several steps that discourage development and restrict supply, thus skewing the market and causing higher prices. Among things the city was done to restrict the supply and increase the cost of housing: development “linkage” fees, restrictions on accessory dwelling units, restrictions on small lot development, and a long list of requirements for small apartments. The city is making it increasingly more difficult and expensive to build pretty much anything. So yes, the market sets prices, but the city shouldn’t be exacerbating the problem as they are, and they have the ability to reverse their recent decisions, which is why they need to hear from us.
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  That said, everyone should take the survey and let them know what you think. It’s pretty short and allows for free form feedback.

• jwright December 16, 2014 (5:48 pm)

  As long as there are low-paying jobs in the city, one of two things needs to happen. Either there needs to be housing in the vicinity of the jobs or there needs to be a transportation infrastructure that lets people get from the wherever the inexpensive housing is to the low-paying jobs.
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  If people cannot live near their jobs they will drive and that put more cars on the road, increasing congestion and pollution. This may be a case where supporting affordable housing, while ideologically impure for a free-market person like me, is the better option.

• Out for a walk December 16, 2014 (7:02 pm)

  Could not finish survey. Appears tech type problems with survey. Results will obviously be skewed and misleading!

  • WSB December 16, 2014 (7:12 pm)

    If there is a link to report it – please do. I went through it this afternoon because we always do that before publishing stories about surveys – don’t want to be recommending something to people without knowing it’ll work.

• Debra December 16, 2014 (7:36 pm)

  I would like to live in medina but can’t afford the homes. Would medina please build housing that their tax base will support so I can live there?
  Maybe Clyde hill or perhaps I should live where I can afford the homes, what an idea

• Sir Richard of Westwood December 16, 2014 (8:14 pm)

  How dare the paupers request residence in the vicinity of my domicile. Pour my coffee peasant or its off to the gallows for you…

• NW December 16, 2014 (8:25 pm)

  I was the bus today heading downtown volunteer at Downtown Food Bank now 10 to 20 years ago you would never see someone commuting to work in a Maserati sure see them these days. I have said it on this blog before and I will say it again the place is going to the dogs.

• sophista-tiki December 16, 2014 (8:39 pm)

  what a bunch of privileged snobs.
  “A study by the National Low Income Housing Coalition concluded that an average American renter would need to earn $18.92 per hour — well over twice the minimum wage — to afford a two-bedroom apartment. “In no state,” their report says, “can a full-time minimum wage worker afford a one-bedroom or a two-bedroom rental unit at Fair Market Rent.” Over one-eighth of the nation’s supply of low income housing has been permanently lost since 2001.

  Little wonder that so many people are homeless: over 600,000 on any January night in the U.S., tens of thousands of children, tens of thousands of veterans, and one of every five suffering from mental illness. ” from an article titled The 6 Step Process to Dispose of Americas Poor.

• JanS December 17, 2014 (12:13 am)

  flimflam…I have lived in West Seattle for 40 years. Now, when I am 67, and what little family I have is nearby, I find that 1400 dollar studio apartments are the high priced spread for me. Are you suggesting a big “eff you” to me, go somewhere else? Is that what you’re saying? Sometimes you plan for the best, and crap happens…what are you going to tell these people…go away, someplace cheaper? So what if it’s foreign to you, you’re far away from your friends and family, and you know no one? Too bad if you can’t keep up? Is that what you’re saying?

• Mike December 17, 2014 (12:17 am)

  “10 to 20 years ago you would never see someone commuting to work in a Maserati sure see them these days”
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  Nobody bought Maserati’s then, they drove their 911 or 355. There are individuals in Medina that are worth more than entire countries GDP. Us normal folk living in half million dollar homes now are not even a blip on the radar of income in King County, we’re actually on the low end.

• Alphonse December 17, 2014 (1:54 am)

  I’ve noticed since I’ve lived here that some of the most conservative people in West Seattle inherited their properties in North Admiral, Genessee, etc. from their families. I always wonder where they would stand on the free market if this weren’t the case.

• Kayleigh December 17, 2014 (7:00 am)

  The “free market” idea is one of those things that sound good on paper (if you’re a conservative, that is.) The “free” market is always shaped by policies and systems, though. Conservative types have no problem when those policies and systems favor the wealthy and the “haves.” GOPsters only cry “free market” when policies and systems benefit someone they feel is less worthy.
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  A city needs people of all levels of income to be robust, interesting, and functional. Artists, students, retired people, people in the service industry, freelancers, small biz people—all these people need housing, too. It serves no one to force them into the suburbs.

• Ex-Westwood Resident December 17, 2014 (8:29 am)

  Affordable housing isn’t possible in Seattle.
  Why?
  Because in order for housing to be affordable, the fees/taxes paid by those who own the property/houses/units must be reasonable.
  There is DIRECT corelation to the price of housing and taxes/fees/supply/demand. ALL are tied together.
  If the cost of building homes is high due to permit costs/taxes/fess…etc., the cost of buying/renting will also be high. Developers/property owners aren’t just going to build/rent to break even. They are in it to make a profit, just like business owners are.
  Just like the $15.00 per hour people, these people aren’t looking at the whole picture.
  WHY is housing so expensive in Seattle – ALL the reason, not just placing blame on owners/developers.
  WHY does it cost so much to live in Seattle? ALL the reasons. Instead of just blaming depressed wages.
  Look at the taxes, fees, permitting costs…etc. Those have as much to do with the cost of living in Seattle/King County/WA State as owners who want to make a profit.
  Or are there people out there that REALLY want to place a lid on profts a person/company can make, taking EVERY cent about that lid and giving it to the local/county/state/federal Gov’t????

• Wes C. Addle December 17, 2014 (8:34 am)

  The survey worked just fine for me.
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  The biggest issue I see is inflation and cost of living raises. Basically if you’re making $50,000 or less a year it will be very difficult to live anywhere in Seattle. Many people assume that everyone that works downtown is wealthy. Most people that work in the corporate towers downtown make $15-$20 an hour.(Not including Directors / Management)
  If you’re making minimum wage you’re probably living with family or commuting a long way to work.
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  I feel like I’m working so I can afford to go to work and it’s a pretty miserable feeling.
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  What happens when Min. wage workers can no longer afford to commute downtown for their job?

• winnie December 17, 2014 (9:17 am)

  If citizens just drive to and from their buildings and work all day behind their computers to pay for their high rent and million dollar homes then the city will become a cultural wasteland for privileged socially incompetent people who will start complaining again when no one can afford to wait on them.

• Laura Gentry December 17, 2014 (9:51 am)

  Hi all,

  I manage the Mayor’s website and made a change to the survey page that will hopefully help anyone who was having problems before. It seems the embedded survey was causing problems for a handful of folks. I’ve removed that from the page and provided a simple direct link to the survey. If you experience any technical issues with the survey beyond that, please feel free to contact me: laura.gentry@seattle.gov.

  Thanks!

• Sue December 17, 2014 (10:48 am)

  Wes, I agree with you re: cost of living increases and inflation. I’ve been averaging 2% raises every year (and grateful for that, as I know many people who get nothing). And then we have increases in all my deductions (like medical) that essentially wash out that raise every year and then some. And yet, rents, utilities, etc. keep going up. My last lease had a 5% increase if I renewed for 1 year (much less if I did 3 years.) If I had a 5% increase every year, I’d get priced out in a few years’ time. I live in a fairly reasonable (for WS) rent apartment, small and nothing fancy. Our building requires proof that you make at least 3x the rent each month. I did the math, and it looks as if for a single person to live in my apartment you need to make over $20 an hour, which is double minimum wage, just to fulfill that requirement (even if you could afford to live there on less salary).

• skeeter December 17, 2014 (12:42 pm)

  “A city needs people of all levels of income to be robust, interesting, and functional. Artists, students, retired people, people in the service industry, freelancers, small biz people—all these people need housing, too. It serves no one to force them into the suburbs”

  Kayleigh – I agree with you. But how do you accomplish this?

  Let’s say there is one apartment building in West Seattle with 100 units. 200 people show up looking for a place to live. 100 people have $2,000/mo each for housing because they earn good money. The other 100 have $800/mo each for housing because they are students, retirees, and service folks. The landlord sets the rent at $2,000/mo and the building is fully booked. How do you get housing for the other 100? Build another building? Okay, let’s build another building. Another 100 people will show up each with $2,000/mo for rent. They live in the new building and the 100 people with $800/mo still don’t have a place to live.

  My point is I don’t know of any way to provide affordable housing so long as the economy is booming and people have lots of money to spend on rent.

• Sheesh December 17, 2014 (1:10 pm)

  I agree with Kayleigh.

  People want to live in Seattle because it is an interesting, robust city. It’s interesting because there’s independent shops and restaurants, run by small business owners (oftentimes immigrants bringing with them their culture and new perspectives) and staffed by servers, waitresses, hosts/hostesses, dishwashers, cooks, etc. There are local venues where artists play music and showcase their work. Nonprofit workers and journalists and teachers and professors put on film festivals and lectures and workshops, not to mention run schools that people send their kids to, circulate a paper people read. Amazon’s office buildings are made by construction workers, kept clean by janitors. Retired folks and seniors put in their work building this city for many years and now are invaluable neighbors and volunteers.

  Forcing all those folks out that BUILT this city as much (if not more than) someone who makes a higher wage isn’t just awful and unfair, it’s going to make Seattle more polluted/congested (as those folks have to travel further for work), and way less interesting and fun and dynamic (as artists and immigrants and small business owners and musicians have to give up and move elsewhere, and suddenly you are no longer interacting with anybody who isn’t a software developer or lawyer). Seattle is a great city because it is made up of people from EVERY walk of life, in every profession, and everyone can come together in a dynamic place and learn from and benefit from each other’s experiences and walks in life. If it’s not a city for everyone, it’s going to be a lot less great.

• Wes C. Addle December 17, 2014 (1:27 pm)

  Yep Sue, I’m right there with you. That describes my situation as well.
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  @Skeeter / The Economy is booming but wages aren’t. Therein lies the problem. Currently my job now is similar to the job I had before the recession and I was laid off. I now do 3 times the work for less pay than I did 5 years ago. That’s a story I hear all too often when speaking with random people. Also just thinking outside the box here ; what if there is some tiered renting structure? Say a new 5 story apartment goes up in the junction. Why not charge a premium for the top 2 floors(give them their own gym, media room etc . . ) while having the bottom 3 floors without the amenities and charging cheaper rent?

• Ws brian December 17, 2014 (4:11 pm)

  The market would only be the answer if we allowed multifamily development anywhere in the city. We don’t. It’s not not the market, it’s our restrictive zoning.

• Sharon December 17, 2014 (7:42 pm)

  San Fran figured this out sometime ago ( like 20 years) to maintain diversity and opportunity …..it is called rent control. It worked beautifully for everyone providing a stable sustainable community environment. I have lived and contributed here in my hood for 12 years and now I worry about getting priced out
  So the non baby boomers can move in……..aging populations will transform how we all look at everything in economy.

• Max December 17, 2014 (9:00 pm)

  With all the new buildings going up, there needs to be more incentives to offer more units at a discounted rate for those who need more affordable housing.

  I rent an apartment in a newer building in west seattle. I make under the threshold that my building sets for getting a unit at a discounted affordable housing rate. Or what’s considered “restrictive income units.” Because of that I am able to live in a newer building, nice apartment at about 30% off the market rate. That being said, I feel the discounts should be more (I still pay a hell of a lot for a small 1bdr apartment) and there should be more units on offer that meet stated criteria. Also, its myself in a small 1 bedroom and that certainly wouldn’t work for family looking for an affordable housing option. Also I don’t know how many are offered at said rate in my building but I don’t believe it is a huge %.

  I feel the only way to offer more, with our city building more and more large apartments buildings, is to make the incentives so great for those that own and run the buildings to offer a large selection of their units at a heavily discounted price. Its not a perfect strategy but one that would help if adopted on a fuller and more robust scale.

• au December 18, 2014 (9:47 am)

  maybe one day we will figure out that housing is a human rights issue, a basic necessity of life and not a commodity to be used for profit, maybe one day we will figure out that human beings are not a commodity to be used for profit, maybe one day we will figure out that what we value is shallow and irrelevant and life is far more rich and rewarding than the amount of money one earns.

  nothing will change and it will only continue to degrade until we realize this ‘free market’ economy is a false set up for living life as a human being.

• John December 18, 2014 (11:58 am)

  Right On, au!
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  We can agree that food and shelter are human rights, but is it the continued ‘degradation’ over the last two hundred years that defines the USA?
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  What about farmers profiting from selling food, also a human right?
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  Our modified ‘free market economy’ has long been the envy of the world.
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  It gets a bit more complicated when someone has to decide who has more ‘rights to the keys to the mansion’ when everything becomes free.

• au December 18, 2014 (2:11 pm)

  hmmm, i don’t think many farmers are profiting but big agra…

  but you know the world is completely skewed with inequality amongst ourselves and its out of balance.

  i don’t understand the analogy of one person and rights and mansions and everything being free. i don’t think its only one person getting to decide and i don’t know of this everything becomes free concept, its not mine.
  i am saying that what we value and what we aren’t valuing is skewed. the (near) entirety of our existence is based upon commerce and the almighty dollar.
  we seem to have a lot of things very backward and if we can turn it around i belief many societal ills will begin to disappear.

Sorry, comment time is over.