Keeping vigil across from Lincoln Park

chas redmond July 12, 2007 (7:37 pm)

We all know, of course, that this is the number of dead Americans since the war in Iraq began. There’s tremendous passer-by traffic there, both commuters and visitors and folks from other parts of town coming and going on bike, foot and in cars. Why not remind folks of the cost in American lives every day. It’s still insane and we should get out and quit. I wonder what the actual tripping number of dead Americans is. In Vietnam it seemed to be several dozen thousand before things started turning.

Jan July 12, 2007 (10:09 pm)

chas…I saw a brief article tonite aobut a reservist who is suing…because he’s being sent to Iraq for the 5th time…and…the army recruiting is down…imagine that…

The House July 12, 2007 (11:39 pm)

Let’s put things into perspective. If we ranked all of the wars of all time according to troop death toll, this war would be towards the bottom of the list. Do you realize that between 2002-2005 that 9,697 people were murdered in the state of California? That’s almost 3x the troops killed in combat during this war. Why aren’t you counting that? I don’t believe that our current war is just, but we have to deal with the mess that we created. Stop being mental midgets when it comes to this war and jumping on bandwagons without actually putting things into perspective and thinking on your own.

Dis July 13, 2007 (12:25 am)

That’s a ridiculous analogy.

chas redmond July 13, 2007 (12:27 am)

The House…
That was the implied comment – thinking the big picture. How many pedestrians must be killed before SDOT does something? How many murders in (pick a city/state) before the locals respond effectively? How many American GIs die in a war before the citizens & Congress get aggravated?

Is there some threshold here which can be meaningfully examined and plotted? Are different eras (30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, et al.) different in their response to these deaths?

As global communication has improved, have societies become more (or less) jaded in their reactions? I’m not being specious – I’m asking a legitimate question – does society (any) have some standard (implied or otherwise) which when surpassed causes a reaction. Or, is it all based on local ethics and local sensibilities?

It also points to some serious social issues. Are homicides different than pedestrian or cyclists killed by motorists and if so should we put more police on the streets stopping speeders and red-light runners or should we put more in the hot drug zones to stop drug and gang violence? These are questions which we don’t ask but which really need to be asked.

Jan July 13, 2007 (12:35 am)

ok…House…I didn’t create the mess (maybe you did, but not me)…and the best way that we can deal with it is to vote ( and vote often? lol) Yes, it’s true..there have ONLY been 3 thousand and some killed so far in this war…not a big number as far as other wars…but…we should never have been there in the first place, we were lied to for whatever reason he had, and those 3,000 and some deaths are on his head. No one should have died, period. How dare you,every time you post, act like you’re far superior to everyone else on here. Yes, and unjust war. And it has nothing to do with however many people were murdered in the state of CA. That’s a sad statistic, but it’s like comparing apples and oranges, to coin a cliche. Our country is irreparably harmed because of this war. Now, don’t anyone jump on me about not being patriotic, because I don’t support the troops. I don’t support the WAR…I do support the troops…and I would like to see them come home, unharmed, as soon as it’s feasible.

eric July 13, 2007 (9:11 am)

as soon as itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s feasible.

Agreed. However, it’s not really feasible right now.

Flowerpetal July 13, 2007 (10:49 am)

Sadly the number of US Soldiers killed is only a small part of the picture. It is huge for families and loved ones of the brave men and women who were sent over there. But imagine the families and loved ones of the 67,000 to 73,000 Iraqis killed since the beginning of this unwarranted war.
My hat is off to the WS citizen who keeps this silent vigil count.

Jan July 13, 2007 (11:19 am)

eric…that’s the sad thing…when WILL it be feasible. We can’t change Iraq into us…different culture, different beliefs, different ways of looking at life, religion…I wonder if it can ever be the right time…

Jenny July 13, 2007 (11:40 am)

I’ve been fighting this thought for a long time – but I really do fear that our society has lost its will to fight for freedom & liberty.

Or maybe I’ve just been living in Seattle for too long.

The dirty little secret is that the War on Terror as a whole is very problematic. If we had pursued bin Laden into Pakistan, it would have ignited a civil war there, Musharraf would’ve been toppled by his Taliban-sympathizing underlings, the Taliban or even AQ would’ve come into control of large parts of the Pakistan armed forces & maybe even some (or all) of their nukes, and then both we and India would have hundreds of thousands of troops mired in Pakistan.

And tons of Seattleites would be sporting “No Pak War” signs, “3606” signs, etc.

The only way AQ could possibly lose this war is if they did carry out another “spectacular attack” on US soil. Anything less than that and most of us will just keep drifting deeper back into our 9/10 mindset.

Grghghrrhghghhrrr

Flowerpetal July 13, 2007 (1:01 pm)

I don’t know who or what AQ is. Can we get back to talking about West Seattle?

WSB July 13, 2007 (2:21 pm)

Al-Qaeda.

Flowerpetal July 13, 2007 (2:23 pm)

Oops! Of course. Can you tell that I’m not much involved with mainstream media. Thank you WSB!

The House July 13, 2007 (11:59 pm)

Jenny, you bring up some intersting valid points. I’ve also brought up the “pre-9/11 mindset” and usually get criticized, but you’re correct.

Jan, I’d appreciate it if you would answer the following:

1) What beneficial outcome came come of blaming me or anyone else for this “mess”?
2) Why do you believe that we were lied too? Is it possible that the president (and his advisors) were given faulty data and therefore possibly acted on the faulty data creating a faulty outcome?
3) Did we draft these soldiers? Do people understand when they choose to enlist in the Armed Forces that they have a duty to protect the United States of America, which includes everything up to and including combat (which could include death)?
4) I stated originally that I wanted to put things in perspective regarding the California murder statistic. I compared the amount of troops killed in the war to the murders in California during the same general time frame. This is VERY relevant and shows how there are more people dying in the state of California, where there aren’t any wars, than in Iraq. This is called IRONY. Now explain how it’s not relevant.
5) How is the country irreparably damaged?
6) Please stop stating that I act superior to everyone. I am not superior to anyone. I simply read, study and form my own opinions rather than echo the same sentiments of Democratic non-leaders. Do yourself a favor and stop thinking that you’re inferior.

Peace out and enjoy the Street Fair.

Jan July 14, 2007 (11:00 am)

House..we live in a great country…difference of opinion is great, isn’t it? We don’t all have to believe the same thing…how boring would that be, huh….

you have fun at the street fair, too…

The House July 15, 2007 (10:52 am)

Let’s try this again to see if WSB is simply censoring my response to you Jan (I submitted this twice already). Thanks for the deflection of answering my questions.

Jan July 15, 2007 (4:40 pm)

hey…I’m not going to get into this discussion on here with you…it’s not the venue for it. But do know that you are not the only one on here who reads, and studies, and weighs things, and then forms an opinion…because what we’re both spouting is simply opinion – even for us “mental midgets”. This is too nice a blog to get into our disagreements on things…simply not the place.

Oh..and I wasn’t blaming you for anything…you said in your original message…”we have to deal with the mess that we created”…and I said that I didn’t create it…

I’m sure WSB isn’t censoring things…unless, of course, you were simply being nasty…and I doubt you’d do that…right?

WSB July 15, 2007 (6:47 pm)

We do turn back comments that we judge as abject personal insults. Call it censorship if you want; the rules are in our FAQ, reachable from the tabs at the top of the page. We are glad to provide a place for discussion, lively and pointed discussion sometimes, but we do draw the line in the style of a restaurant posting a sign like “we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone at any time.” As, on the flip side, anyone reserves the right to refuse to visit our site!

Jan July 15, 2007 (9:39 pm)

hmmm…that’s fair enough :)

Mike July 16, 2007 (6:35 am)

It is not about what Jan or The House, or anyone else in the United States wants to do or see done in Iraq. If one has even the semblance of democracy, the place to ask people what should be done is in Iraq itself. The citizens of THAT country are the people being directly affected and it is THEIR country so it is THEY who need to tell us if they want the United States military to stay or go. To in anyway think that it is up to ‘us’ to decide their fate is the utmost in arrogance and is incredibly anti-democratic.