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February 5, 2015 at 3:35 am #816694
Jd seattleParticipantJust curious how others feel about “lane splitting” and if they think it’s a good idea. My first thought is it would be tough watching for lane splitting motorcycles in dark rainy congested conditions. Anyone with a good amount of wheel time in California that could share experiences?
February 5, 2015 at 4:32 am #821500
JoBParticipanti think it’s an accident waiting to happen
and when it comes to a car motorcycle face off the biker is going to get badly hurt
February 5, 2015 at 4:51 am #821501
Jd seattleParticipantI agree, I wouldn’t think we have enough freeway motorcycle commuters to use the argument of it helping our traffic either.
February 5, 2015 at 6:24 am #821502
miwsParticipantThis paragraph stood out in my mind when I saw/heard this Report on KOMO News:
Washington state’s proposed law would allow motorcyclists to occasionally ride the stripes between cars when traffic is moving under 25 mph. Because it would be limited to traffic jams, bikers could not travel more than 35 mph at their top speed when passing between lanes.
This bothers me, because it’s allowing the operators of the motorcycles discretion of when to lane split.
My comment may seem kind of “duh”, but what I’m getting at is just the human nature of many people nowadays, feeling entitled and such, would they use the best judgement of when to do, or not do it?
I can foresee some operators deciding to do it when traffic is moving at 30, because they are tired of the delay. I can see them zipping along at 40, while splitting.
It bothers me much in the same way as in how U-Turns, and turning across narrow, double yellow lines became legal several years ago.
I know we have discussed those two issues a few times here, as there has been confusion as to if they are legal. I distinctly remember being taught, perhaps over 40 years ago in Driver’s-Ed, and maybe over the years in the WA State Driver’s Manual, that each of those maneuvers were illegal. I don’t think this is an issue of mis-remembering, as is the case with so many other things nowadays.
Anyway, the Law states each move is okay, as long as it doesn’t impede through traffic. Well, guess what we see all the time? Just a couple days ago, I was in front of Harborview, waiting for the bus to get home, and I saw somebody hold up traffic while making their U-Turn, because they couldn’t make it in one sweep. I think there may have been a conflict with someone pulling away from the curb on the other side of the street, (unless that was another U-Turner), but this person definitely held up the car(s) behind them, as well as a lights flashing Ambulance, going the direction this moron was switching to.
ETA: Forgot to mention, the other scenario I see with the Lane Splitting thing, is riders doing any old time, because they saw someone else do it in stop and go, and (perhaps quite innocently) figured it must be legal at all times/traffic conditions.
Mike
February 5, 2015 at 6:57 pm #821503
wakefloodParticipantWell Mike, I’m not sure I have a final thought on the topic but as an initial one, I suspect that, like almost anything in society that leaves discretion to the citizen, it’s going to be abused.
So, if we’re going to allow the gray area, let’s put the ENTIRE onus on those who choose to utilize their newfound legality.
Which is to say, if you lane split and are injured or INJURE someone else who has not violated the vehicular law, YOU’RE at fault for all damages incurred. Someone changes lanes in front of you, and you turn into ground beef? Your insurance company pays for the damage to the car you just T-boned.
Linkage of personal freedom to personal responsibility.
February 5, 2015 at 7:43 pm #821504
dobroParticipantI’m against it myself. Safe driving is difficult enough without motorcyclists appearing out of nowhere when you try to change lanes. I remember the first time I encountered this in CA and it scared the heck out of me when I almost flattened a cyclist. I don’t see why they shouldn’t obey the same lane restrictions as other drivers. I realize they’re smaller and able to squeeze in, but just because you can doesn’t mean you should.
February 5, 2015 at 8:10 pm #821505
mpentoParticipantWell there are a couple of problems. One is that the lane width (and lane discipline) here in Seattle sucks, another is that it often leads to motorcycles getting to the front at red lights and then having to zip away because the driver in the car feels they shouldn’t have jumped the line. Another problem is that some drivers will often try a maneuver to discourage a motorcycle lane splitting. I would say in Seattle this would be a very frequent problem even more than other cities. Also slow lane splitting is a bit tough because the motorbike is tougher to handle (avoid potholes and other obstacles) at slow speed and it increases the possibility that drivers will do their anti-splitting reaction. In most cases it is often safer for a motorcycle to swerve rather than any attempt at stopping where you need the bike to be upright and you need to plant your feet on the ground. From a bikers point of view if I can do so safely I would like the option of lane splitting mainly because stop and go commute on a motorbike REALLY sucks.
February 5, 2015 at 8:29 pm #821506
CMParticipant“Linkage of personal freedom to personal responsibility.”
Wakeflood, you’re just talking crazy now. :)
February 5, 2015 at 8:59 pm #821507
miwsParticipantwake, I absolutely agree with your idea of full punishments, full financial and other responsibilities, to be the burden of the “offender”.
But we are talking, at a minimum, of damage to the “innocent” vehicle, or even worse, as you suggest, injury to the innocent people. Being a Professional Bus Rider, when I’m not being a Professional Pedestrian, I see even more potential of folks on a bus, than in a car/SUV/van/pickup truck, etc. Plus, the inconvenience of the delay of getting to work or wherever, that would happen in any collision scenario.
Basically, like in many scenarios in life, I prefer to be proactive, rather than reactive.
Also, dobro brings up some very obvious concerns; low-speed balancing on a motorcycle, potholes, etc.
Mike
February 6, 2015 at 1:48 am #821508
clulessinwsParticipantI see motorcyclists splitting lanes on I 405 & I 90. Have seen it for the past 5 years or so. Just a few here and there. But still annoying to see it since it’s currently illegal. WSP can’t catch violators when i’ve called 911. I’m against it for safety reasons. Also against motorcyclists using the shoulder like at the 4th Ave off ramp from the WS Bridge. Seattle is basically a free for all, unfortunately.
February 7, 2015 at 2:22 am #821509
waterworldParticipantWakeflood and CM: Unless something’s changed since the last time I checked, Washington isn’t a “no-fault” state. If a motorcyclist plows into your car, his insurance pays for the damage to you and your car, and you can sue him or her, as well, if the insurance doesn’t sufficiently compensate you.
In addition, you may purchase insurance to cover you for harm to you or your car if, for instance, the motorcyclist doesn’t have any insurance, or doesn’t have enough insurance to cover your loss. This type of insurance policy is “no fault,” in that provides coverage regardless of who is at fault for the collision.
February 7, 2015 at 6:01 am #821510
sharktankMemberi wouldnt trust your average washington driver ATALL to feel safe enough to split lanes on my bike. Worst driving city ive ever been in.
That said if washington drivers could handle it, like californians.It provides a few safety features. Riders would be less likely to get rear ended. And the rider will not fatigue. I can handle about 20 minutes worth of stop and go traffic.
Everytime traffic stops i have to pull clutch sometimes shift to neutral and hold my bike up. Ive got a 220* engine right underneath me add my safety gear and sun and i am sweating bullets.
Ive lane split in cali. It is awesome but there is a big difference between cali drivers and what we have here. Those people pay attention. They are not shifting lanes constantly and when they note a bike splittig they move to the opposite sides of their lane.Absolutly fantastic. I was nervous at first but after seeing cars move to allow us by i got very comfortable.
If this passes i wont use it in anything but extremely bad traffic. Drivers here are the worst.
So, ill drive my gas guzLing suv to commute with instead :)
February 7, 2015 at 6:11 am #821511
sharktankMemberAnd, wakeflood, thanks for being such an awesome human and being more concerned about someones car then someones life.In the scenario lane splitting would be a legal operation of a vehicle so the dillhole making the unsafe lane change into a biker would be at fault.
February 7, 2015 at 5:00 pm #821512
wakefloodParticipantHey sharktank, I’ve yet to see a comment from anyone here that thinks that lane splitting is anything but inherently very risky. I can have my blinker on and check my mirror and pull across to the other lane just as the biker dashes out and into me. And I noticed you overlooked my statement of vehicular law abiding as the requisite.
I’m just tired of folks who want to do risky stuff not using their noggins and take into account standard human behavior. Are bikes harder to see than cars? Yes. Do cars change lanes abruptly BUT legally? Yes.
Deal.
February 7, 2015 at 5:27 pm #821513
wsn00bParticipantThis is great news for the organ donor program!
February 7, 2015 at 7:17 pm #821514
SmittyParticipantIf you’ve ever been to Greece, Italy or almost anywhere in Europe you’ll know this is common. Every time you come to a stop you are immediately surrounded by tens of scooters who split lanes and race to the front of the line. It’s maddening at first, but you get used to it.
With all our high density/no parking developments going in we are going to face more and more scooters for obvious reasons.
I think we’re going to have to learn to deal with it as drivers, but people on scooters will need to be extremely careful until we all get accustomed.
February 7, 2015 at 8:20 pm #821515
sharktankMemberThe only reason we all believe this to be risky is because of the lack of skill washington drivers.
Like i said when i split lanes in cali it was surprisingly safe. If drivers here can handle it, it is a benefit for all.
February 7, 2015 at 10:12 pm #821516
waynsterParticipantall one has to do is go to California they haul ass slow yea right…. hug the white line just a tad or make a sudden lane change and wait for the impact… stupid idea always has been always will be…..
February 8, 2015 at 5:10 am #821517
sharktankMemberWell, your suppose to check your mirrors and blind spot before you make a lane change. Or didnt you know that waynster? If you pay attention as a driver and follow rules it can be done safely. those of you who have never ridden a motorcycle have no idea how terrible stop/go traffic is.
February 8, 2015 at 3:13 pm #821518
JimmyGMemberAs Smitty says above, it happens all over the world. I don’t have any problem with it. I don’t ride M/Cs except as pillion with my husband.
In Asia, the Middle East, etc. the drivers don’t have more skill than the drivers here, in fact nobody follows many of the rules of the road and traffic flows with the scooters and MCs getting around massive traffic most easily.
Bangkok sticks out most in my mind, I’d definitely get a scooter if I lived there.
I hope it passes.
February 8, 2015 at 4:08 pm #821519
waynsterParticipantwell I do check my mirrors and blind spots and I ride a motorcycle its the dumbest bill its studied and its not safe so don’t point fingers saying who doesn’t know how to drive most who ride don’t look either and think they own the road… even WSP is against it…… its unsafe always has always will…..
February 8, 2015 at 8:28 pm #821520
skywayParticipantI am motorcycle, bicycle and motorist. I am supporting the split lane in the stop and go traffic. I don’t see any reason to stop with car traffic if I have a safe pass in the stalled traffic.
February 8, 2015 at 11:18 pm #821521
wssortMemberDriving in Seattle is like a game of survival…lane changing and pulling out without even looking the eff around. It’s actually maddening. I don’t ride a motorcycle but I understand completely why those that do would think it’s risky here. Too bad because it’s a great idea – I’d rather have bike riders get ahead rather than take up space between cars in a single line.
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