Regarding Sleepers in Seattle…

[WSMom]

Thanks for the silly pun flowerpetal! Made me smile!

MerylAlc: Excellent post and good policy!!

Now let’s “give it a rest”.

Share This

[JoB]

i can’t put

this thread to bed..

but i can and will

go soak my head:)

Share This

[add]

Class act, Meryl!

Share This

[Junebug15]

Thanks for all the replies. I only replied to this new thread because it was giving the wrong impression and intentions about the original post, which I wrote. If a post is to be deleted based on a lack of representation to management Datamuse, then SarahScoot shouldn’t have been allowed to continue the conversation using a different thread concerning the issue. Especially if the original poster is not allowed to comment on her attacks.

No, I did not approach management about this. As far as it looked to me that day, I was talking with management. I originally posted because I wanted to reach out and identify a situation that exemplifies a problem in this culture that is all-too under-looked and downplayed. Although most educated and liberal adults value breastfeeding in the importance in raising a child, it is still seen by many as an act which requires some sort of discretion or privacy.

I think it is already difficult to find a good place to breastfeed in public because of the distraction issue and lack of private places. I pointed out so many times already, that placing more blame on someone for going into a furniture store rather than a cafe seems like making a mountain out of a mole hill. Some of you missed my original thread, but I DID attempt feeding in the street more than 3 times. I tried Husky (filled), Elliot Bay (busy) and Cafe Nouveu(sp?) (super busy and all chairs taken). Like I was saying, a super busy place is not going to work for MY BABY, simply because she is easily distracted and won’t even latch with other big noises and children running around. That being said for the 3rd time now, busy streets, bustling cafes, and benches wasn’t an option.

I am definitely envious of those who have less-distractible babies, although I don’t know many moms with older babies, such as mine, who don’t have the same issues. So does having a distractible baby make me the one having issues with breastfeeding in public Erik? I think you are obviously not paying enough attention here. Of course I am not having issues with BF in public. Without going into a big list of planes, restaurants, streets, parks, etc. of where I’ve “whipped it out” as some of you seem so grossly-descriptive in calling it, I can say I have NO issues having to feed my child in public.

I don’t feel like I have to lay out my LLL card either to feel ok in saying so. I am certain you will find plenty of LLL members siding with the importance of making breastfeeding more commonplace. I hardly want to involve such a great organization in such a banter of opinions right now, but glad to hear your a member, Shihtzu.

Oh, and before I forget to reply on your suggestion PlaneGuy, putting a blanket over my baby’s head isn’t an option, for she WILL NOT nurse like that. She isn’t a newborn anymore. She is an older baby and wouldn’t let me walk around while nursing either. Sounds luxurious though!

So thanks for all the comments. I am hoping to end this here for I can’t keep up with computer blogging all the time. I am hardly on a computer outside of work requirements and don’t want to waste any more time trying to prove anything to people who are looking to breakdown ever wrong move I made. This was a great example of the illusions of breastfeeding convenience, the difference in challenges among BF mothers, and the variety of opinions of what is acceptable and WHEN and WHERE. I know some of you are still stuck on the INVENTORY crisis and need to Purchase a Pass, but try to see the light this issue has shun upon us. Look at all the varying opinions and defensiveness for keeping BF in a “proper” business,etc. It has been an eye opening experience for me to see just how Heated some of you can get about the issue. For me I’m not mad. I never was mad or using my “Momma Claws.” I was am just disappointed in all the close-mindedness and barriers around BF in Public. In my opinion, it should be a right to all Whenever, Wherever, and Whoever. As a first time mom, guess I am finding out that is not the case. It is funny to me the simple act of feeding your child could have so much politics around it.

I was simply trying to point out the lack of comfort and acceptance of BF in public in some parts of society. It’s not everywhere obviously or everyone, but like racism or homophobia, Discrimination about BF in public isn’t as black and white. It is harder to put a finger on who is right and who is wrong, but the general moral here is that it obviously isn’t accepted as well as it should be. BF is hard and like some of the posters have said, Moms need support through these transitions.

I will repeat myself for the 10+ time that, I DIDN’T NEED AN INVENTORY ITEM to nurse on. Just a space…a floor space even. I needed a quiet “space” to discretely nurse my baby, which I WAS NOT ABLE to find the day of the parade very easily. I did forget about Georgia Blue and Coffee to A Tea, bc. I was already running out of places to turn after making SO MANY other attempts. I guess I was a bit desperate and my baby was really fed up with waiting. I should have described this whole scenario to the store manager upon arrival so that he could use his discretion as to whether or not we could use his floor or couch or chair. I didn’t. I just sat somewhere in the back hoping to not be bothering anyone.

I will look into Breastfeeding Law and the most recent bill that was passed. There are some grey areas around “Public” spaces, etc. I know that restaurants and private resorts are not allowed to discriminate any more via this bill…but I do not know about stores. I would think they would be the same as those, but I could be wrong. Maybe they DO still have the right to deny you. I didn’t think they could anymore. Seems silly that they have to make laws about these rights, but I guess I thought Moms and Babies were more represented than this. I’ll look into it. You should too though, because I have a hunch that from my understanding, I am right about the Right to BF in Public (restaurants, stores, movie theaters, resorts, etc.). And that IS different than your Personal House, THE HOUSE, unless you were a B&B maybe. If I’m not right, guess it IS up to the store’s discretion.

We will have to look into the particulars of the bill HB 1596. I got this in a LLL newsletter as a short description of it:

“HB 1596 The Breastfeeding Bill has passed and was signed by Governor Gregoire on April 22, 2009. You have a civil right, protected by law, to breastfeed your baby anywhere you are otherwise allowed to be in Washington State!!”

SOunds like furniture stores selling to the public fit this bill! Like I said, doesn’t have to be on the inventory. Just a space on the floor in a corner is fine.

HOpe this last post leaves you all feeling a bit more informed about the politics of BF in Public and the little struggles one mom went through. Sorry to not have contacted management. I don’t really have a goal to achieve concerning the store itself. Next time I will approach management first before posting, but I don’t plan on this being a common occurrence. I hope at least this made others who work in public more understanding of the struggles of BFing can be when out and about, and maybe they will find more sympathy. We don’t want moms to feel like they have to stay at home all the time because we are going to knit-pick them about how they go about feeding their baby when they are out. Even the moms with babies who are more difficult to feed.

Thanks to all those supporters of BFing and supporting those who are trying their best to have a successful time at it. I hope more people can appreciate the importance of making more welcome spaces and accommodations for it.

thanks again.

Share This

[Erik]

June –

I apologize for any perceived insensitivity, perhaps I wasn’t paying attention.

I generally doze off after a paragraph of reading any post…z

Good day.

Share This

[Junebug15]

Thank you Meryl! I apologize for not replying in the post I just put up. I was busy writing it while others where posting, including you or I would have approached you and not Sarah Scoot and those others who have attacked my concerns so directly.

It is funny; I never realized posting about an incident that made me feel unwelcome, uncomfortable, and alienated would leave me feeling like I needed to defend my every word. I never originally planned on that. I just wanted to make it known just how awful your sales person made me feel that day because I was trying so hard to do things in a right manner. That is why I put myself in a farther back location that seemed away from attention.

Of course I would never want to risk the potential for spit-up on your furniture, (I realize now that you are concerned for that), but I didn’t even think of that during that day, for my one year old has NEVER spit up after a feeding (call me lucky).

My original post had little to do with your store and more to do with the way the salesman treated me. He was very cocky and to me, demeaning about the situation. I will give him the benefit of the doubt now and appreciate your reply.

Thanks for making a spot for nursing moms. It is great to hear that other moms have found a sanctuary for nursing in your store before. I love that you are reaching out a hand to them. I would have explained my needs more to the salesman who approached me, as I thought to do at the time,…but he was so expressive and snickery about the situation that I didn’t want to be begging from someone who had already made me feel so bad. Next time I will DEFINITELY be approaching the front first (as I honestly usually do, unless in a cafe).

Thanks for your time. I am at rest with your reply. I can’t change the negativity of some others, but am happy to hear that your store has made a proper attempt to better the situation. Sorry I didn’t approach you directly with the situation. Guess my goal wasn’t about your employee, but to point out how hard BF can be in public when there is still some discomfort around it for others. We have all learned something here.

Sincerely*

Share This

[swimcat]

Oh my, the sense of entitlement on this thread is mind-boggling. Junebug, I seem to be in virtually the exact same situation as you and have absolutely no sympathy for what you encountered. I could go on and on, but won’t bore others. If you started another thread about nursing in public then I might pipe in.

Share This

[CMP]

To all the BF mothers out there, do you ever think that you MIGHT just be making others around you uncomfortable bearing your breast to feed your baby? Sure, it’s natural, but some of us just don’t want to see it so please make more of an effort to be discreet about it. I know it’s no big deal to you since you have to nurse so often, but it’s a little too much for some of us to handle in public places. While I’ll admit that Sleepers was probably a better choice for nursing instead of a cafe or restaurant, at least ask the business owner if it was okay first. Common courtesy.

Share This

[datamuse]

I will look into Breastfeeding Law and the most recent bill that was passed. There are some grey areas around “Public” spaces, etc. I know that restaurants and private resorts are not allowed to discriminate any more via this bill…but I do not know about stores. I would think they would be the same as those, but I could be wrong. Maybe they DO still have the right to deny you. I didn’t think they could anymore.

Well…there’s public and then there’s public. I went and looked at the bill after you mentioned it yesterday, and it says public without really explaining what that means.

Something I learned in library school (of all places, though you’ll see why in a minute) is that there are degrees of public space. It might be okay to do something on a street corner that it isn’t okay to do in a public library, which is why SPL can enact all of those rules that they did recently about things like how big your bags can be and the like.

A store is open to the public, but it’s private property. So it might be legal to walk down the street without a shirt, but a business could have a “no shirt, no service” policy and enforce it.

Since the breastfeeding bill modifies a law prohibiting discrimination, that does change the rules a bit. But since I am not a lawyer I’m not going to speculate.

I read it as the store employee could have dealt with you more civilly than he did. Not to excuse him, but he was probably flustered. No matter how thorough an employee’s training, it can’t cover every conceivable scenario and he’d probably never even thought before about what he’d do in this situation.

Share This

[EmmyJane]

JuneBug- I wouldn’t take the disection of every word you wrote personally or think that this level of scrutiny only pertained to your topic. Any time anyone writes anything on this blog it gets picked apart in this way, which is why I stopped starting threads with any perceived level of controversy.

Share This

[herongrrrl]

CMP, if you have an issue with seeing mothers breastfeeding in public, then don’t look at them. Although I think if you were to actually watch women breastfeeding you might be surprised to learn that you will rarely see anything more than you would see on prime-time television shows in terms of exposure. Breastfeeding isn’t about showing off your boobs to strangers. We don’t nurse our babies in public in order to be stared at, we nurse them because they are hungry and I guarantee a hungry baby is going to be a lot more noticeable and unpleasant in public than one who is being fed. If you’re uncomfortable with breasts being used as nature intended, that’s your issue, not mine or my hungry baby’s.

Share This

[JoB]

bottom line..

you child.. your responsibility..

if your child doesn’t feed well in public spaces then it is your responsibility to find a private space where you can feed them… or to avoid taking them to a public space during expected mealtimes.

it is not the responsibility of any private individual or business owner to provide you a space to nurse your child.

being a nursing mother doesn’t excuse anyone from the basic courtesy of asking a business owner if they have an appropriate space you could use.

No food, no drink… is a reasonable policy for a store with inventory that is devalued once soiled… accidents do happen you know.

Share This

[CMP]

My sister is nursing right now and I still don’t really want to see it, although I’ve gotten used to it. And we’re twins, for gods sake. It’s like watching myself nurse and it still seems weird to me. I don’t think I’m in the minority on this one. For a lot of people, breasts are a thing of pleasure, not function. I’m sure that when I have a baby I’ll change my tune, but for now, that’s my opinion. And if/when I have to nurse, I’ll be forcing my kiddo to tolerate those boob coverup cape contraptions. That was a brilliant invention.

Share This

[datamuse]

For a lot of people, breasts are a thing of pleasure, not function.

And that perception is the responsibility of their owners? Really now.

Share This

[JoB]

datamuse…

and we wear bras for our health?

let’s face it.. they aren’t just milk jugs no matter how we look at it :)

I am glad to see us finally legally acknowledge that breasts have more than one function.

Public perception will follow in time…

Share This

[swimcat]

I’m breastfeeding an 11 month old and I actually don’t like seeing other women BF their children. I cover up with a shawl, even though it can be a struggle with my daughter to keep it on. I do this because I know breastfeeding makes a lot of people uncomfortable.

Share This

[MargL]

I was a breastfeeding mom for 2 years and I have to say the way some women do “whip it out” (seriously) and nurse like saying “HEY EVERYONE I’M FEEDING MY CHILD HERE” does bother me sometimes. It’s not everyone, some folks are discreet about it – like turning away a little when you’re at a table full of folks having a conversation.

Some folks – like me, use a cover up because -they- want to and their kid is OK with it. That’s not everyone and to each their own.

But people are uncomfortable, they’re human, it’s not going to change. Yes, you have to feed your baby – they’re human and hungry. But there has to be compromise and acceptance of the fact that some people -will- be uncomfortable. Sometimes they can’t communicate that in a polite and understandable manner. So maybe while the BF moms are asking for understanding and compassion they can reciprocate and understand there are folks around them that might not want to share the joy of their baby having a meal.

Share This

[Diana]

Manners and civilty seem to be traits we are losing. To JuneBug: “Hello. I’m hot and tired, my baby is hungry and I need a quiet place to sit and nurse for awhile. Do you have somewhere I could do this?” HOW DIFFICULT IS THAT? To Meryl: Your response is as I expected it would be from a responsible business owner and I would expect your employees would follow your lead. I’ve learned something about you from your comments and I want to support your business. I have some things I need and will come to shop soon.

Share This

[datamuse]

and we wear bras for our health?

I do…

Share This

[Junebug15]

Here’s the link to HB 1596, the new law concerning breastfeeding in public in Washington state. Entitlement seem threatening? Well read this and take it as you may.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2009-10/Pdf/Bills/House%20Passed%20Legislature/1596.PL.pdf

Share This

[MargL]

The interesting bits are:

the definition of “any place of public resort, accommodation, assemblage, or amusement” is open to interpretation

and

“PROVIDED, That behavior or actions constituting a risk to property or other persons can be grounds for refusal and shall not constitute an unfair practice.”

So whether or not a private business is worried about ‘risk to property’ could apply.

Share This

[JoB]

datamuse…

ok ok.. i admit I have a lot less pain these days if i hold them up in a bra… gravity has not been my friend:(

but i still try to find one that looks as good as it works… some habits die hard.

wanting nice looking milk jugs is one of those for me:)

Share This

[JimmyG]

Minor point of order here for Junebug15.

The BF law was signed on April 22nd, to take effect in 90 days.

So it’s not a law until tomorrow.

Tomorrow you can go commando on all the private businesses that refuse to let you BF.

Share This

[bluebird]

I like JoB’s answer:

“bottom line..

your child.. your responsibility..”

If you know your child won’t BF in noisy, crowded, public places, why pick the extremes of that scenario to attend, and then complain when it doesn’t work out?

Of course parents and babies need to get out, but there must be a million other places which might provide what you seek. Missing a parade one year is not the end of the world if your baby needs a different environment.

Whether you are breast or bottle feeding, a furniture store containing clean fabrics for sale is not an appropriate place. Who cares if you might buy something some day. You admit you weren’t shopping. They have a no food or drink policy. What else would you consider milk?

Share This

[Oliver]

For the moms: I have always found a sympathetic smile and gracious host at Georgia Blu’s when needing to feed my baby at the junction! As an added bonus, they have a play area that keeps my older child entertained.

Share This

[Author]

Posts