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May 15, 2008 at 11:04 pm #618672
Tonya42MemberBeahcDriveGirl, actually you can’t give the 100%credit to Clinton for the economy during his reign as the economy is more like a wave that is reflective of previous presidents.
JoB – I too am more than a little familiar with the policy and procedures of the FBI and no Obama would clearly not pass clearence. This is my opinion as is most of what you replied.
I think Obama would have had a better chance of winning the race if he would have just come out and said proudly what he is but instead he denies and tries to put as much distance between the Obama that is running for president and the Obama the real person. I have much more respect for a person of conviction and he is not one, at least that I’ve seen.
Secondly, his series of non stop gaffes that he’s struggled with pretty much the past several months are a direct result of his connections with people that are not exactly something to be proud of.
Here’s a quick run-down of some of Barack Obama’s questionable and disturbing associations:
* Rabidly anti-Israel Columbia University professor Rashid Khalidi. The Obamas were regular dinner guests at Khalidi’s Hyde Park home for years.
* Terrorist sympathizer Ali Abunimah, who runs the viciously anti-Israel web site Electronic Intifada.
* Unrepentant Weather Underground terrorists William Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn.
* Reverend Jeremiah Wright. What more needs to be said?
* Anti-Israel foreign policy adviser Samantha Power — fired after calling Hillary Clinton a “monster.â€
* Anti-Israel foreign policy adviser Robert Malley — fired when it was revealed he has been holding talks with Hamas.
* Hatem El-Hady, former official of the Hamas-linked charity Kindhearts, closed by the Justice Department. El-Hady’s web page suddenly vanished from the Obama campaign site with no explanation, after being exposed.
* Tony Rezko — a Chicago fixer currently in a whole lot of legal trouble. Tony Rezko is Syrian and is himself heavily involved with radical anti-Israel politics.
This in my eyes, does not look good and more importantly goes against what Obama is trying to portray himself as.
I am not thrilled about McCain either but he has a better chance of winning than Obama has, and the dems should have had this race in the bag!
May 15, 2008 at 11:12 pm #618673
AnonymousInactiveTonya42- Please try to come by more often. I can use all the help I can get, and you’re a woman who knows what she is talking about.
(Even though I know these things, I have a hard time retaining information… which, I guess ruins my credibility)
I realize that you very well may be a Democrat, but you are an exception in the sense that you aren’t fooled by the “Obama syndrome”. You actually look beyond what he promises and I really respect that.
May 15, 2008 at 11:16 pm #618674
WSMomParticipantHey Tonya, I’m not sure where you’re getting your info, but McCain’s chances in November are sounding pretty slim to me…
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90451351
“Americans are feeling pessimistic about the direction the country is heading, a new bipartisan NPR poll suggests. They’re increasingly leaning toward alignment with the Democratic Party and divided over their choices for president in the fall.
An unprecedented 80 percent of likely voters surveyed said the United States is on the wrong track — a huge jump from the 68 percent who felt that way in the previous NPR poll in January.
The latest dissatisfaction level is reflected in other polls conducted recently by the Gallup Organization and several newspapers and TV networks.
When asked about the job President Bush is doing, 65 percent of respondents overall said they disapproved and a bare majority, 51 percent, said they disapproved strongly.
That might help explain why, after years of near-equity between the parties, more voters called themselves Democrats than Republicans by a difference of 10 percentage points.”
May 15, 2008 at 11:22 pm #618675
beachdrivegirlParticipantI dont think that the “list” of “shady” associates is going to hurt Obama’s connections in the fall. Obama is bringing out new voters and pulling in independents because most people are very concerned at wehre our country is headed. We are nearing a depression and we are in a war that never needed to start. And McCain has no plan on how to get our economy on an upswing or end the war. Furhtermore, he is anti-gay rights and against a womens choice. We are not in the fifties anymore and i think that his positions on issues will turn most young Republcan voters away. In fact, there was an article in the Seatle Times about his on Sunday that even made it on the Huffington Post. Also thanks for the link WSMom very encouraging
May 15, 2008 at 11:46 pm #618676
Tonya42MemberThanks NewResident, that is a lovely compliment,I appreciate it.
WSMom, I don’t rely on a particular source nor do I glean what suits my argument, what I stated was fact. I agree with you that much of America is disheartened, there’s no denying that.
Is electing a closet socialist the answer? Not likely. Would it be the worst thing to happen to the U.S? Of course not but so far Obama is cutting off his nose despite his face, he keeps getting “caught”.
Beachdrivegirl, I admire your passion but your innocence (ignorance) is blocking your view. You say:
” dont think that the “list” of “shady” associates is going to hurt Obama’s connections in the fall.”
This is not pragmatic, it’s already severely damaged him. There is more to come I am sure, if Obama continues to slip and slide his way thru these things, he’ll be toast.
“Obama is bringing out new voters and pulling in independents because most people are very concerned at wehre our country is headed.”
Every election the Dems rely on the youth vote and every election they are let down. There is much fanfare but it never amounts to anything. Not a good place to put all your eggs.
Also, whichever candidate wins, more will defect to McCain than vote for the Dem winner, or so I keep reading.
” We are nearing a depression and we are in a war that never needed to start.”
Umm, where to begin with this one, we are nowhere near a “depression” and it greatly undermines the credence or your position for you to even suggest.
I do love your name, I wish I’d have thought of it.
May 15, 2008 at 11:50 pm #618677
WSMomParticipantHow is it a “fact” that McCain has a better chance in Nov than Obama?
May 15, 2008 at 11:57 pm #618678
AnonymousInactiveWSMom – I’m sure Tonya42 will answer your question, but I just wanted to point out, do you realize the NPR, the link you gave to support your statement, is extremely liberal?
Sorry, but to a Republican, an article from a liberal news organization holds no weight with me.
I want to note, too, that it is extremely hypocritical to dismiss any link I share because it is deemed “biased…conservative” and, yet, you Dems can post whatever you want and claim it is factual. This happens continuously.
May 16, 2008 at 12:00 am #618679
JoBParticipantLOL…
Tonya 42…
it’s clear you did take the time to follow charlabob’s link…
Much ado bout nothing I am afraid.
it’s still not considered an unAmerican activity to have dinner with University Professors.. regardless of their political views.
In fact, some people actually cultivate friends with differing backgrounds and ideas from their own to learn more…
i know.. odd concept, isn’t it.. to hang out with people who don’t always agree with you.
if you actually have insider knowldege of the process of FBI clearances… and the sort of insinuations you mentioned would be enough to prevent an applicant from service… it was good of you to point out why it is so important for ordinary citizens to have the protection of that little paper we call a constitution.
BTW.. i don’t think you want us to dredge up a list of who Senator McCain has broken bread with in the past 20 years… Now that would be some list:)
New resident…
So now, being educated is bad? Yes, I am better educated than you.
But the most important and currently relevant part of that education comes from never ceasing to educate myself..
which you can do as easily without a degree as with. Some of the most intelligent people i know are self educated.
You are certainly smart enough to question why you think the way you do… read information that both agrees and disagrees with you.. and then weight that information against your personal experience.
That’s what i have done.
As for not thinking it is ok to make a reasoned argument by using parables… when you deny any person the right to support their opinions with parables (their own stories) … you deny your right to use anyone’s experience as validation.
In other words.. you don’t get to use your stories of your sweeties job hunt to illustrate your perception of reverse discrimination.
worse.. you silence some of the most powerful words known to man… including the bible.
not such a good idea.
I use to stories to illustrate and to back solid information with experience. We all do.. even you.
As to my lack of credibility.. i think you will search vainly for any evidence in any of my posts that equate Senator Obama with unAmerican activities..
unless of course you consider being a politician in itself an unAmerican activity. I have certainly accused him of that.
i think a case could be made for equating politicians with actvities that are not in the best interest of the American people… but that would disqualify Senator McCain equally… if not more since he has so much more experience.
I am afraid that all i have done is make a good case for Senator Obama being a politician… and not the anti-establishment icon presented to the voters.
But he has never indulged in the kinds of contacts and nefarious dealings that are the hallmark of Senator McCain’s political career…
and one doesn’t even have to bother concocting bizarre associations to connect John McCain directly to some pretty nefarious dealings.
in case you forget.. there is always that lovely video of a young John McCain frolicking with his captors on the beach…
they say a picture is worth a thousand words…
May 16, 2008 at 12:02 am #618680
beachdrivegirlParticipantTonya42, I dont have time to address each of your issuse but here is just one article that references that US is near a depression:
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Alt/alt.politics/2008-03/msg02495.html
May 16, 2008 at 12:10 am #618681
AnonymousInactiveJoB – You never cease to amaze me.
Newsflash for you: You don’t get to decide what I can and cannot use from my personal life to support my opinions and have free reign with yourself! You are knowledgeable (more so than myself, which I have stated numerous times), but you’re not THAT smart. Do you need help off that high horse, there?
Continuing dialogue with you, I feel, would be beneath me.
May 16, 2008 at 12:37 am #618682May 16, 2008 at 1:15 am #618683
walfredoMemberAnyone elses blood boil today listening to Bush talk in Israel? How can the worst foreign policy president in the history of the United States think his words would help his opponent? Can you imagine just how excited the Dems get every time Bush emphasizes how in tune John McCain is with his diplomacy methods?
Anyone who missed Keith Olbermann’s special commentary on Bush giving up golf, as his sacrifice and tribute to the dead in Iraq… It truly is an incredibly good watch, and points out just how terrible this president has been at absolutely everything.
The more Bush talks, the more democrats from both primary camps remember just how much we hate this guy, and how important it is to not have a 3rd term of his pathetic administration.
May 16, 2008 at 1:26 am #618684
KayleighMemberPssst…did you hear that Obama once went to Germany? HITLER is from Germany.
Oh, and he visited SEATTLE, and the Green River Killer is from SEATTLE.
He likes to shoot basketball, and we all know who else likes to shoot basketball. Hmmm.
Makes you wonder, doesn’t it?
/sarcasm off
May 16, 2008 at 1:48 am #618685
JoBParticipantNewResident…
what about those who have no discretionary spending to adjust? That article assumes that everyone who matters has plenty of discretionary spending…
as long as our criteria for economic health is that of the profitability of corporations and not the economic welfare of it’s citizens… all corporations have to do to remain profitable is lay off more employees…
thus.. no recession. isn’t that comforting while sweetie is looking for a new job?
As for stories.. i am going to continue to be authentic in my arguments and voice… since you are the first to let me know that you aren’t giving up yours:)
May 16, 2008 at 1:54 am #618686
AnonymousInactiveJoB – You really take the cake for being “insulting”.
Don’t know what your problem is, but do me a favor and stop taking it out on me. As stated before, debating with is definitely beneath me.
Yeah, you may be more educated than me, but I’m the one, it seems, with integrity.
May 16, 2008 at 2:06 am #618687
JoBParticipantHow exactly do i insult you New Resident?
I pointed out that sticking with your arguments might not be in your best interests.
personal circumstances really are the test of all those policies and theories…
and yours are no exception.
May 16, 2008 at 2:29 am #618688
WSMomParticipantMaybe the economy is still growing because each of us got a check from the Central Bank of China, oops, I mean the IRS. It’s not enough that US is in debt to a tune of over a TRILLION dollars, let’s just see how deep of a hole the republicans can create for Sen. Obama to work to get us out of.
By the way New Res, NPR has a long history of reporting the facts. Yes, I know, facts have a liberal bias. Just ask anyone who pays attention to Fox News.
May 16, 2008 at 2:30 am #618689
TammiWSMemberI would really enjoy meeting both NR and JOB – in a room together. This isnt a debate any longer which is unfortunate because I was actually learning a bit from each of you….Not that I AGREE with either of you but learning nonetheless :) Is sticking with either of your arguments to this extreme in either of your best interests? Just curious?
May 16, 2008 at 2:43 am #618690
AnonymousInactiveOh, yeah, the big, bad Fox News. They are out to get all the Democrats, aren’t they!?!
Listen… post whatever link you want, but don’t jump down my throat when I post a link either.
You’re liberal news sites are no more factual than any conservative news site.
But, really, is it my problem that you believe everything you hear from those sites? You’re the one who is not exposing yourself to *all* aspects of an issue, limiting yourselves.
Basically, you’re the narrow-minded ones.
I’m gonna take a lead from charlabob and refrain from posting on the political threads. The nastiness (and, in some cases insincerity) is not worth it.
There is an excuse for everything, a constant twisting of facts, condescension, lack of integrity and, quite frankly, I’m just disgusted.
I will be reading, though (I can’t wait to read all the posts when there is actually no one disputing all the lies), it will provide hours of entertainment.
Good luck and good night!
May 16, 2008 at 2:43 am #618691
TammiWSMemberWalfredo – more scare tactics bringing up Hitler -and a new low which never ceases to amaze me – he and his ilk just need to keep talking while Obama (and Hillary today) take a higher road. People are, I hope, smarter than this.
May 16, 2008 at 2:44 am #618692
AnonymousInactiveTammi – Thank you for that post. No, debating in this arena is not in my best interest and, therefore, please note post above.
May 16, 2008 at 3:33 am #618693
TammiWSMemberWell NR, you’ve done a good job holding your own on this site. I think you and JOB represent both ends of the spectrum which might explain why you’re both so passionate about your beliefs. Neither of you, or your beliefs, is 100% ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ – it just is – and through each of your own lenses. <br> My brother and I reached a breaking point about 5 years ago (he’s way R and I’m pretty progressive) and we’ve just come to realize we dont agree on many things. I actually sat and watched an anti-Hillary video with him – simply to learn and see where he was coming from. Gave me new insight into her but again, its one side – just as info on McCain has spin. I’ll give Fox a try now and again – dont agree with much of it and it does seem biased (but, so does NPR to my brother) yet I’ll check it now and again…. NONE of the media, the blogs, the web, the interpretation, the books, the commentary is gospel and none of its ‘truth’ – it’s all opinion – and of course your own experiences – however no reason to get THIS worked up about – especially when it’s POLITICS. I would hope you continue to chime in – you both provide a voice – but while I’m not saying ‘hold back’ – just step back and put it all in perspective…None of its worth all this frustration or angst :)
May 16, 2008 at 7:45 am #618694
AnonymousInactiveNR, I found this by accident, but apparently McCain thinks we’re in a recession.
*Sen. John McCain this morning said “greedy” Wall Street investors are partly to blame for what he said is probably an economic recession the nation is now suffering.*
http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080414/NATION/195874612/1001
May 16, 2008 at 1:52 pm #618695
JoBParticipantwould these be the same greedy wall street investors what he has protected in congress?
he has come out for the environment too… he now believes in global warming…
he is going to out democrat the democrats on their own issues….
May 16, 2008 at 3:06 pm #618696
walfredoMemberChris Matthews last night was great. They brought in this republican mouthpiece to support Bush’s statement. Matthews kept asking him, what exactly the comparison was referring to, and the guy finally admitted that he didn’t actually know the history behind it.
Chris then pointed out, that what is criticized about the dealings with Nazi Germay and Hitler, was not that we talked with him… Talking to foreign leaders is not appeasement, and is something that almost universally is viewed as helpful. What was done in error, was offering half of Czechlosovlokia to Hitler, that is appeasement… Giving in to demands or requests. Offering gifts to gain favor. You know, appeasing the enemy. It has nothing to do with talking to them, and Bush’s comments besides being disgraceful and horrible timed, were also completely innaccurate of fact and historical context…
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