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October 2, 2015 at 7:12 am #828217
JKBParticipantNo? Okay, so my post was a simple thing. I did some research and reported results
If you’ve something to add, go right ahead.
October 2, 2015 at 2:38 pm #828218
JoBParticipantJKB
what i added to this conversation is that you can’t look at death by police as the sole indicator of whether there is a problem with racial profiling in this country.
there is a much larger story here that can be found by digging further through the data.
for instance, did you look at the stats on death by police where there was no weapon present? Or at incident rates or at arrest rates? did you look at the imbalance between arrest and conviction rates in ethnic populations.
and FYI.. I am generally off the computer and in bed by 7.. last night it was a little earlier than that. You are unlikely to get answers from me after bedtime.. and if you do i am likely to be cranky at best.
October 2, 2015 at 4:06 pm #828219
JTBParticipantJKB, think “The idea that law enforcement is out there gunning people down. . .” misrepresents the larger concern. Eric Garner, Freddy Gray, Sandra Bland are notable lethal examples of the kind of bad policing that black people encounter much more than do whites. tennis star James Blake being thrown to the sidewalk in MYC by a plainclothes officer who didn’t even identify himself was fortunately not a lethal incident. It did appear that Blake had the wisdom to offer no resistance, so that may have spared him more dire treatment. I doubt if John McEnroe would have been treated in a similar fashion.
October 2, 2015 at 5:47 pm #828220
JKBParticipantI doubt there is any sole indicator, I looked at one and tried to identify some specific facts. The comprehensive analysis of everything is out of scope.
Not only did I read stats about unarmed victims, I discussed them in the earlier post.
For any of those other topics, do you have sources for the data? It happened that I ran across the Guardian’s project.
I was also prompted to do the work after reading more from the BLM people, who I’m increasingly appalled by. A common theme was that America is wholly devoted to holding blacks down. To them, white people are the enemy. Let’s just say I disagree. My run through this data was an attempt to see the facts.
October 2, 2015 at 10:27 pm #828221
JTBParticipantJKB if you haven’t already done so, I encourage you to watch Elizabeth Warren’s speech (#11 above) and reconsider exactly who or what is holding blacks down? Is it unreasonable to consider those who tolerate systemic discrimination to be complicit?
Push it to an extreme and consider this: if you know a neighbor who was forced by her parents to marry a known abuser and you hear screaming coming from their house, but simply turn up the sound on your device so can’t hear the noise and don’t call the police, are you in any way complicit when she is found broken or dead? I concede it would be a stretch to consider you her active enemy. Other terms might be more appropriate.
I think BLM is trying to shine the light and heat of moral exposure on white America and it may be uncomfortable. At this point in history, shouldn’t it be?
October 3, 2015 at 12:37 am #828222
JKBParticipantHaven’t watched it, but I read the transcript. Brief rant – why the bleep don’t we get this sort of thing from our Presidential candidates? Anyway, a link to the text: http://www.warren.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=967
October 3, 2015 at 1:26 am #828223
JKBParticipantThought problem: consider several low-income families. Same income, same overall circumstances, different races. In what way are their lives the same, or different?
Or, if you look at a number of such families, are their results the same? Or if some do much better/worse than others, what distinguishes the ups from the downs?
It’s the kind of question I don’t see in the larger discussion, and I think it’s pretty important. Jumping to a conclusion – systemic racism or any other – acts against getting at the real issues.
To follow up JTB’s hypothetical about an abusive neighbor – it happens that he has red hair. Also I heard about a red headed abuser down in Burien. Do I condemn redheads everywhere, or act against the offenders I know?
October 3, 2015 at 5:06 am #828224
KBearParticipantJKB, you keep trying to take race out of the equation. Suddenly ignoring race where race has always been a factor does not solve the problem of racism. Imagining that things should be a certain way does not make it so.
October 3, 2015 at 5:12 am #828225
JoBParticipantJKB
there is a whole lot of information here …
follow the links to get the full picture
October 3, 2015 at 5:55 am #828226
JKBParticipantKbear, you’re close. I would want to exclude race from those things where it’s not really the driver. It’s not always about color.
But sometimes it is. Best I can do is to look for hard evidence, or try to ask interesting questions, to sort out which is which.
Job, what are you doing up? It’s after ten… Thanks for the link; I’ll go read it.
October 3, 2015 at 6:04 am #828227
JKBParticipantAh, the americanprogress link gives all the the usual stats about how judicial punishments fall more heavily on one race than another. The question you’re not asking is: why?
October 3, 2015 at 3:28 pm #828228
JTBParticipantJKB,
I hope you didn’t mean to say it is jumping to a conclusion to point to systemic racism as the driving force preventing African Americans as a class to secure equality in the many areas under consideration—education, income, rights of citizenship, etc. But seemed to me that’s what you mean, and assuming that’s a correct read on my part, I’ll submit one can’t effectively resolve broad problems like that on a piecemeal basis. Of course, it’s helpful to address them in specific instances and try out solutions that may be narrow in focus, but until there is a clear understanding of how the system works and an effective strategy to counter it put in place, it will naturally tend to find new ways to perpetuate itself.
Take for example what has happened with the voting rights act since the Supreme Court gutted key provisions overlooking the conduct of historically racist states. There have been a series of measures introduced in a number of those states which impose new challenges to voting registration which most observers believe will have an negative impact on minorities in greater proportion than whites.
For example on the heels of establishing new requirements for voter ID, AL just closed 31 driver’s licensing offices, many in majority black counties (8 of the 10 counties with the highest percentage of black registered voters had their offices closed and every county where blacks make up 75% or more or registered voters will have their offices closed). That’s the racist system adjusting to perpetuate itself by limiting the rights of citizenship (voting) of blacks. I refer again to Elizabeth Warren’s observation that Black Citizens Matter.
October 4, 2015 at 2:00 am #828229
JoBParticipantJKB
it was a bad night last night :(
if you want an answer to the question why all you have to do is look at the numbers of arrests in our schools and the juvenile incarceration rates.
they speak volumes.
interesting read…
October 5, 2015 at 12:58 am #828230 -
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