Irresponsible Dog Owners — Westcrest

[cy10]

First let me say I’m a dog lover and I love Westcrest dog park. Most folks there are responsible dog owners or they wouldn’t be there. However, a disturbing trend is happening. People are parking and letting their dogs jump out of the car off leash to go into the park! Yesterday I got out of my car with my dog on her leash, as always. I’m leaning over to tie my shoe, not looking around, when suddenly a growling, barking, unleashed dog was right next to me. I didn’t see or hear it approaching, and neither did my dog. I gasped “Jesus!” and jumped back because I was so startled. The young woman/owner just called the dog and kept walking. C’mon people!!! Just because you don’t *think* your dog will do anything doesn’t mean nothing will happen. Your dog came up and almost started a fight with my dog! In fact, like most dogs, my dog gets nervous and defensive when she’s on the leash and other dogs come near. It’s irresponsible to let your dog approach other dogs that are leashed. Does it ever occur to you that there’s a REASON the other dog is leashed? (Mine would run away.) Plus, it’s the law to have them leashed (municipal code, I think) before you go in the park. GET WITH IT AND LEASH YOUR DOGS!!! Thanks for listening to my rant — I feel better now.

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[JoB]

i haven’t been walking my dogs there on the trails any longer because of the number of off leash dogs and irresponsible owners outside of the dog park.

it’s too dangerous:(

hubby won’t take the dogs to Lincoln park any more for the same reason.

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[hopey]

I recently found out about a helpful product, a citronella spray that helps deter dogs. It is safer to use than pepper spray, and comes in a similar sized spray can so it’s easy to keep in your pocket.

It’s called Direct Stop or SprayShield (I think they recently changed the name). More info:

http://www.mightypets.com/Direct_Stop_Faq.asp

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[Dog Free Parks]

Hi All: Now that I am retired, I can start working for something close to my heart — small parks that allow no dogs — as much square footage free of all dogs as there is square footage devoted to leash-free dog parks.

I am so sick and tired of not being able to enjoy birds (herons, especially), or the sounds of nature or the sounds of water lapping on the shores of Puget Sound without some idiot dog owner with an idiot out of control dog on the beach (against the law, but NO enforcement) creating noise, scaring wildlife, and generally making life for those of us who choose a different life style, obnoxious. I could go on, and on, and on.

At any rate, I have just written to the mayor and I will be talking with Tom Rasmussen about beefed up enforcement (which won’t happen), or legislation that allows for off-leash bounty hunters (would be pretty easy — get a camcorder, record the offense, get information from offender, if offender not cooperating, post video for others to identify, collect a portion of the fine as income). Great for retired folks wanting to supplement their income. Plenty of offenders with which to make a living off of bounty proceeds. $500 a pop for on the public beach with or without a leash.

Also, I have written about a concept called “Abuse it, You lose it.” After a certain number of citations are handed out or offenses are recorded and documented by video, a petition can be submitted to make a park or a portion of a larger park completlely off limits to all dogs due to the number of offenses committed.

I am serious! One of my used-to-be absolute favorite parks of all time was Lowman, but now, there is so much illegal dog traffic and noise, and turds everywhere, that it is a lost park… I laugh sadistically every time I see kids rolling around on the lawn there when I walk by… if they only knew how much dog urine and feces goes into that poor little, now-cesspool of a park.

Unfortunately, all of you who do obey the laws, set good examples, and actually think about the rights of non-dog owners, are being consistently hurt by your associates who don’t give a crap, litter parks with dog turds, urine, and make the “park” experience — you do know what that is, right? — obnoxious for anyone without a dog.

I actually have never personally witnessed a single law-abiding dog owner publicly chastise a law-breaking or rude dog owner, ever. What’s up with that?

The person whose dog was off leash can be cited by you. Just get an automobile license plate number and fill out the form at http://www.seattle.gov/AnimalShelter/ServiceRequest/ServiceRequest.asp

Until responsible dog owners start policing their rude comrads, nothing will change. There is not enough money to hire enough Animal Control officers to make an impact on irresponsible dog owners, who ruin it for everyone.

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[datamuse]

I hear ya. I’ve stopped going to Westcrest entirely because of the number of times I’ve encountered off-leash dogs on the trails, outside the fences, and other places where, hello, they’re not supposed to be.

I’ve also pretty much stopped going to Riverview, which has NO off-leash area, because people let their dogs run around and an awful lot of those dogs seem to love chasing joggers.

And when I call dog owners on it, I get “Oh, don’t worry, he’s friendly.”

You know what? I DON’T CARE. I don’t go out for a run with the intention of interacting with your friendly dog, who, by the way, just growled at me and didn’t respond when you called him.

It’s funny how many complaints I see about illegal activity in that park. I’m not a fan of, oh, drug dealing in the parking lot either, but at least I don’t have to worry about whether the drug dealer is going to bite me.

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[Moose Jaw]

“Abuse it or lose it”

Stop wasting your time on such a ridiculous initiative. Dog owners are taxpayers and afforded the same access to parks as any other. Let’s apply your logic to a city street, where if enough traffic citations are given out the street is closed to all vehicles. Brilliant.

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[B-squared]

Best of luck, DFP!! Perhaps you can assemble a force of retired park patrollers – maybe King County Animal Control can deputize them! i know what you mean. i go to the parks to enjoy the tiny bit of space that nature has been allocated only to watch it be overrun by off-leash pets.

there are many people who put in hours volunteering at our neighbor parks and greenspaces, doing invasive species removal and trying to restore the health of urban forested areas. to be doing this work and having dogs run amok through an area you are trying to restore is truly depressing.

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[Wednesday]

This is a real problem that will not go away without compromise. Until dogs are banned from all public parks, dog owners (who by the way pay taxes and license fees) also have every right to enjoy our parks too. Some dogs more than others, love to run and need to run a lot to get rid of energy that otherwise can be destructive. The solution is simple to me, but it’s also a compromise. Why not just designate certain areas of our larger parks such as Lincoln to have off leash areas, like the areas that are already being used in this way (illegally). That way the anti-dog people can avoid these areas and everybody will be happy. Just give us a little bit of beach somewhere too where our dogs that live to swim can legally do so without having to drive 15-20 miles to get there. I think that responsible dog owners would respect these boundaries if we only had them. Westcrest is great, but it’s twice as far as Lincoln for me, it is often overcrowded and my dog who really only cares to retrieve balls often gets bullied by other more aggressive dogs there, so we don’t go there all that much.

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[datamuse]

Wednesday, I’m all in favor of more off-leash areas. But it’s a pretty tough sell from my perspective since so many people disregard the existing regulations. Non-dog owners pay taxes too.

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[guidosmom]

I have to say, last summer I really enjoyed riding my horse at Westcrest and yelling to the owners of off leash dogs running towards us “she will kick!” I’ve never seen people leash their dogs so quickly. I’ve also seen the mounted police riding through the park. Imagine how much trouble those owners would be in if they injured one of the police horses. The police horses are stabled at the park.

I have been impressed lately with the number of leashed dogs at Lincoln Park. I used to fear taking my leashed dogs there, but lately have hardly seen any off leash dogs. Must be a result of the recent animal control officers handing out tickets.

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[hopey]

Wednesday — as has been rehashed countless times in this forum on other threads, there are environmental concerns for sensitive ecological areas that take priority. That is why you can’t have an off-leash area in every public park. And Lincoln Park is one of those areas.

One really surprising thing to me in all of these “off leash” discussions is that everyone assumes a leash must be six feet or shorter.

If you want to play fetch with your dog at Lincoln Park — or any other public park, for that matter — why not buy yourself a 50 foot long line and learn how to use it? Every pet store has ’em.

A 50 foot long line counts as a leash. Your dog gets to run around enough to play fetch, you follow the law and keep your dog under control as needed, and you don’t get a citation from animal control. Problem solved.

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[Dog Free Parks]

Hmmm… Moose Jaw: Yah, “Abuse it or Lose it.” As much as you may be a law abiding citizen, you belong, believe it or not, to a “class” of citizens known as “dog owners.” Not much different than, let’s say, belonging to a class of motorcycle owners, like Harley Davidson owners.

As you may know, there are hog owners who love to make as much noise as possible, and they have the machine that can do it. However, as a class, they are being regulated in many areas now, with noise abatement laws, and laws the restrict them from using certain roadways during certain periods of time (you know, so people can sleep).

Moose Jaw, as a law abiding, tax-paying citizen, maybe you should get out there and educate your non-law abiding colleagues, so you don’t get tarred with their reputation. Otherwise, “perception is everything.”

On the Dog Free Parks issues, you would think that you, as an equality-loving taxpayer would recognize the equality of having as much dog-free space allotted to park users as there is off-leash space.

I nominate Lowman Beach Park for a dog free space to would be equal to the space allotted to West Crest Off Leash Area.

Brilliant!

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[EK]

Re: Hopey @ “If you want to play fetch with your dog at Lincoln Park — or any other public park, for that matter — why not buy yourself a 50 foot long line and learn how to use it? Every pet store has ’em.”

Leashes must be 8 feet or shorter in Seattle – SMC 9.25.020. This means retractable leashes are technically illegal in this city.

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[vincent]

@Dog Free Parks

You appear to be a member of the social group, “nimby retired people with nothing better to do but create nuisance legislation and go to public meetings to shout down people who still work for a living”

Your points are all over the place, you have advocated for: Abuse it and lose it, citizen patrols, self policing, and moving of existing facilities all in one long winded rant.

We get it you don’t like sharing space with people, you dislike density and people who break rules. You dislike errant dog owners, Harleys with loud pipes, and those dang kids on your lawn. News flash, you cant do anything about it. Complaining about your nature scapes on beach drive being disturbed is like blowing into a wind. West seattle is only going to have more people move in, and if you want dogs off the beach, vote to raise your taxes so we can pay for a dedicated animal control officer.

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[cakeitseasy]

It cracks me up the way some dog owners swagger through Lincoln Park with their unleashed dog romping on the shore 100 yards ahead of them…as if they’re strolling their very own estate with the hunting hounds.(These yokels will tell you their taxes allow them to do this). We really do need some dog free spaces enforced in the city. Cities are for people. And in general, I think it’s high time people maintain some boundries, both physical and mental, between human life and animal life. Why does everyone need a dog in the city these days anyway? People acquire dogs now the way they acquire furniture. Like, it’s on the setting up home checklist. I’m surprised they don’t sell them at Ikea. Many people aren’t willing to be responsible dog owners, and yet they simply MUST have one. And the amount of attention, space and money for various dog ‘needs’ accessories and accoutrements borders on mental illness. Because it’s A DOG not a HUMAN. It doesn’t need Science Diet, special toys, clothes, beach front walks, afternoon swims and ‘freedom’.

Stop humanizing dogs’ ‘needs’. It’s the human qualities that owners project onto the dog that they are addressing when they insist on leash free opportunities. When you tell dog owners they need to keep their dogs leashed, you might as well be telling them they need to be leashed. I really think that’s why they react so strongly to a “need” for off-leash moments. There was a time when “no dogs allowed” was taken seriously. A time when people kept the animals in check, and treated an animal like an animal instead of a surrogate human companion that competes for space and resources in a city. I get a little tired of the dog owners complaining about space for their pets. Seattle is ranked as one of the top dog friendly cities in the country, how much more do you want? Cities are first and foremost for people…not large animals. You want an unfettered dog? Buy/rent some land yourslef, or move to the country, instead of using tax dollars to fund ‘doggie playgrounds’ in urban commmon areas. We need that money for “people” things, not animal things in the city.

Leashes. Use them. 8 feet or shorter. Capisce?

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[vincent]

@ cakeitseasy

your right, we should regulate peoples behavior, cause owning pets and behavior you disagree with is bad!

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[gambaru]

cy10- I’m sorry that happened to you. That must have freaked you out. I frequent Westcrest and it would have made me jump too.

As for the responses advocating equal space for dog-free areas: In a city where there are more dogs per capita than CHILDREN, allocating EQUAL space just isn’t realistic. Set your sights a bit lower and you might actually get what you are looking for. As it is, there is not a lot of off-leash dog space at all. It really bothers me that much of the time, dog owners tend to actually utilize the parks MORE than other demographics of tax payers and yet we only have one off-leash area in West Seattle. On a typical day at Westcrest, the dog park portion is often over-crowded while the playground portion set aside for families is completely abandoned. Many responsible dog owners have no choice whether or not to take our dogs out. Rain or shine, winter or summer we are in the parks because we took on the responsibility of pet ownership and our dogs demand it. As it is, we cannot get funding to make the dog park we have safer or community friendly. We cannot get adquate lighting during the winter. There are no bathrooms available unless we leave that portion of the park. I do not advocate illegally having dogs off-leash. I believe it is unsafe for all involved. However, I completely disagree that a dog-free zone would be utilized as readily as an off-leash area and therefore would not be serving the majority of tax-payers.

For me personally, the dog park has served to connect me to my community in the same way neighbors used to connect. I moved to Seattle knowing no one and got a dog. I have formed many life-long friendships with the people I have met at the dog park and find out a lot about local happenings by talking to the people there. What better way to spend community dollars than by creating a place where people come together over a common interest and connect with one another?

There will always be people who break the rules. I’m sorry for that. However, to lump “dog-owners” into a group of inconsiderate rule-breakers is absolutely unfair. I agree with the statement that there needs to be compromise on both sides otherwise the conflict will never be resolved.

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[hopey]

@EK – thanks for the correction on the details of the leash law.

My general point still stands. I’d rather see people breaking the law using a long line, where the owner can actually control and reel in their dog if something goes awry during play, than seeing the dogs playing off leash completely.

Just be sure to use that 8-foot-or-less leash to walk the dog back to your car when you’re done playing in the open space.

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[Dog Free Parks]

Hmmm… so many insults, so little time. Yep, that’s me, so retired I have nothing better to do than try to advocate for the use of parks as they were intended to be used… not as dog parks. The issue of owning dogs — what is a responsible dog owner? One who has a yard big enough to care for those larger, “hyperactive” dogs? Yah, that’s the ticket… people who actually plan for the dog and not just for their own needs.

I am not sure. I think the whole ownership of dogs has gotten way out of control and people are owning dogs more for themselves than for the dog. Hmmm… maybe the burden of dog ownership should be with the dog owners, not with the non-dog owners?

What makes dog owners think they have the right to despoil the original mission of parks for the purposes of allowing them to have a place to pretend to be rich enough to have an adequate place for their dog to frolic, since they only have the small yard or the apartment… seems strange to me, really.

What is the point of cooping a dog up in a way that then necessitates imposing your dog on others as if your neighbors have a responsibility for your possible of lack of judgment in owning the dog in the first place (that is, in a situation where the only outlet for the dog is to impose the dog on other people). Yah, that’s the ticket, make others responsible for your needs that really make very little contribution to society in general. The money spent on dog ownership in America would likely be enough to wipe out a fair amount of poverty and starvation world wide… Hmmm…

So, I don’t expect to get much but entitlement attitude from dog owners in general who, to a large extent (maybe not a majority, but certainly a significant number) seem to want to grow up to be spoiled brats.

But, guess what. Parks weren’t meant for being a substitute for your lack of adequate space for your dog. They were meant for people to enjoy nature, solice, peace, relaxation, re-creation.

As for the concept that there shouldn’t be dog free zones because there are so many dogs — that is precisely why there should be some. So people can actually enjoy parks for what they were meant to be in the first place — havens, not playgrounds for dogs.

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[Moose Jaw]

Dog Free Parks:

You have some valid points but it’s time for you to recognize that the good old days of uninterrupted nature walks are over. I’m referring to changing demographics.

You state that everyone seems to have a dog these days. More so than years past? Probably true, but why? Think about it. Who can afford to live in West Seattle or any other affluent Seattle neighborhood that didn’t buy their home in the 60s 70s or 80s? My guess would be hard working young professionals who have opted to postpone family rearing and instead are fulfilling the void with a pet. Yeah, these folks make no contribution to society.

Keep judging us all you want but times are changing. Accept it.

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[trulyitalian]

I have read all of the posts for this paticular subject. I get annoyed when I am in public areas (not dog parks) and there are dogs unleased running around. Dog owners tend to feel that everyone loves their dogs as much as they do. I was attacked by an unleashed (very friendly, he won’t bite you) dog while riding my bike. This left me very afraid of big dogs. So when I try to go to parks that owners are allowing their dogs run free, it literally scares me. It isn’t fair that I can’t enjoy public parks because of this.(I pay taxes too.)

I went to a beach where I had my small pet on a leash and there were big dogs running around off leash. I spent my day at the beach worried about my pet getting attacked by one of these big dogs.

Owners think they know their pets, but if your pet is running around off leash and come in contact with animals (or situations) that they aren’t familiar with they may react in a way you weren’t expecting.

Also it isn’t the responsibility of everyone in the city to exercise your big dog. If you want a big dog in the city then run with them in a park on a leash. Take them to a “DOG PARK” and play fetch. Don’t take them to non DOG PARKs and let them run around without a leash and then use, “my dog needs to exercise.” That is what DOG PARKs are for.

The leash laws are there for a reason and it would be great if people would PLEASE follow them!!!! Not everyone loves your dogs and I was attacked by a fun loving, “He won’t bite you, he is nice.” dog because I was riding my bike.

Please take other people in consideration. And THANK YOU to all of the responsible dog owners out there.

Dog free parks-I hear ya! Good Luck!

Thank you.

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[angelescrest]

This is a city-wide issue.

Dog Free Parks, I hear you as well. Remember what happened to the sidewalks during the snowstorm? How gross, right? And it is not a right, but a disgusting WRONG on the part of irresponsible dog owners.

Though it is not W. Sea (but a mile or two away) I am dealing with that same sort of grossness on a daily basis at my job, as my portable classroom can only be reached by a path that meanders through some nice grassy fields. These attractive green spaces have become the doggy park for the adjacent apartments. Well guess what? By the looks of it, those apartment dwellers own a lot of dogs, and they let their pooches loose, and there is dog poop decorating each grass-laden side of the path to my room, as well as poop ON the path. Take a batch of frisky middle-schoolers, and I have ended up scraping sh** off their shoes to avoid getting it smeared in our classroom. Oh, this is classy. It is everywhere, and the city has even installed one of those plastic bag dispensing/trash can units–oh, full o’ bags, always.

We have a dog, by the way.

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[datamuse]

Gambaru, has it occurred to you that the REASON there aren’t people using those areas is because we’ve stopped going to the parks because we’re tired of encountering aggressive unleashed dogs? I realize that the plural of anecdote is not data, but as I commented above, I’ve pretty much stopped going to parks in my own neighborhood because I’m tired of being chased, growled at, nipped, and then treated like I’M the one with the problem.

And speaking of data, I’ve seen people mention that there are more dogs per capita than kids in Seattle before, but I’ve never, EVER seen any source to back that up. Care to provide a citation?

Because, even so, I’ll lay you money that there are more people in Seattle without dogs than with them. By your own logic, we therefore shouldn’t have spaces for dogs at all.

I’m not about to argue that. I actually like dogs and I’d like nothing better than to get along peacefully with my dog-owning neighbors. But it’s gotten to where I can’t jog down the street or through a park within a mile of my house without being chased after by someone’s pet. Think I’m exaggerating? It’s happened at least six times in the past six months.

And Moose Jaw: I’m one of those young urban professionals, I bought my house in West Seattle 10 years ago and I could not disagree with you more. How exactly does choosing to have a pet rather than a child excuse you from following the leash laws?

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[Dog Free Parks]

Datamuse says “I’d like nothing better than to get along peacefully with my dog-owning neighbors.”

Me too. But good luck. All you have to do is read posts like Moose Jaw’s and you will get a sense of the entitlement, selfishness and tunnel vision of many dog owners.

Whoever these folks are don’t seem to get it that non-dog owners, just like non-off road vehicle owners, have a right to areas that do not include such “modern” distractions. Peace… hmmm… what a concept?

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[Moose Jaw]

“Entitlemnet” That seems to be the catch word these days for folks who disagree with other people’s choices. Call it what you want, but you’re just as selfish.

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[Author]

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